Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

General music discussion.
matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 25804
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

Post by matedog »

Image
  • You Need a Mess of Help To Stand Alone - long ass winded song title. This is Carl singing lead? Sounds nothing like him - more like Dennis or one of the randos. There are two voices singing lead, who the hell is the cookie monster sounding fella? There's a banjo and a violin and like a slide guitar? There's a vocal breakdown which almost makes it sound like a BBs song. Ricky Chapman or Blondie what's his face is actually a pretty good drummer.

    Here She Comes - The most listened to song on Spotify from this album. Ricky or Blondie takes lead and along with Ricky or Blondie on drums makes this sound nothing like the BBs. Honestly, this sounds like mediocre 70s kinda soul rock. It's alright. There's a tight groove and some nice slide guitar/piano work. It goes into double time. Yeah, it's a decent semi-generic 70s rock song.

    He Come Down - alright a gospel song. This one has a pretty wild vocal and musical arrangement. It works for me. Probably the best song on the album. Loses points for Love talking about some meditation guru stuff, I don't know.

    Marcella - Oh maybe this is the best one. Sounds like an actual Beach Boys song. So much steel guitar on this album.

    Hold On, Dear Brother - Probably the best song featuring the 2 randos in spite of being the ugliest of "common" time signatures, 3/4. I'll compartmentalize this by thinking of it as a non-Beach Boys song so I can sleep at night.

    Make It Good - Dennis must have gotten a huge head from "Forever" because this is one of two real syrupy ballads from him. He really hit his stride in the mid-late 70s when he stopped doing this sappy shit. There are some interesting Brian-esque chord changes, but that's about it. This is a real slog. So Captain of "and Tennele"'s real name is Daryl Dragon??? And he thought he needed a stage name? Anyway, before he started making good music, after he collaborated with Charles Manson, he made some real shit with Daryl "The Dagger" Dragon.

    All This is That - Another mediocre one. Carl sounds good, some interesting ideas with the vocal arrangement. The "I am that, thou art that, this is that" chant really sucks though.

    Cuddle Up - More Daring Daryl Dragon, "sorry about cozying up with Charles Manson" shit from Dennis. Again, some interesting chord changes, but that strings and tympani are just too much.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 25804
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

Post by matedog »

Flex wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 4:03pm
Listening to Carl's Youngblood for the first time in a hot minute. Some pretty tasty tracks. I like this one particularly:
That's a real good one.

I like "Of the Times" because he does that Carl Wilson belting thing that gets me all hard.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Flex
User avatar
Mechano-Man of the Future
Posts: 35802
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:50pm
Location: The Information Superhighway!

Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

Post by Flex »

Hoy, the other really funny thing about yo besides hating Ricky and Blondie so much is how much you hate the 3/4 time signature. Must be Drummer Stuff, but you complain about it a LOT.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 115993
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Straight Banana, Idaho

Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Straight truth: I love Hoy’s breakdowns of albums/songs, especially when he hates them. Part of it, I know, is because I can’t write that stuff—I just don’t know how to relate that stuff—but it often comes across as personal offence. There’s a Lester Bangs spirit there.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 25804
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

Post by matedog »

Flex wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 7:09pm
Hoy, the other really funny thing about yo besides hating Ricky and Blondie so much is how much you hate the 3/4 time signature. Must be Drummer Stuff, but you complain about it a LOT.
Worst song on Pinkerton? “No Other One.”
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 25804
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

Post by matedog »

I'm trying to wrap up the Surf's Up album review but the last fucking song is Surf's Up. Anything Smile related is a convoluted god damn mess. Now I have to listen to the 1966 backing track with the 1971 Carl vocal so I can compare it to the 1971 backing track with the 1966 Brian vocal.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Flex
User avatar
Mechano-Man of the Future
Posts: 35802
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:50pm
Location: The Information Superhighway!

Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

Post by Flex »

matedog wrote:
16 Feb 2023, 11:53am
I'm trying to wrap up the Surf's Up album review but the last fucking song is Surf's Up. Anything Smile related is a convoluted god damn mess. Now I have to listen to the 1966 backing track with the 1971 Carl vocal so I can compare it to the 1971 backing track with the 1966 Brian vocal.
Great record, in any case :cool:
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

WestwayKid
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 6704
Joined: 20 Sep 2017, 8:22am
Location: Mill-e-wah-que

Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

Post by WestwayKid »

Great write up on So Tough.

When this was originally released, Reprise packaged it with a reissue of Pet Sounds. It's in a double gatefold, so literally the back cover is the front cover of Pet Sounds. I assume Reprise had such little faith in their current material that they decided to throw in their most critically acclaimed release, but all it did was make So Tough look even weaker than it already was.

Also, the confounding title. It does not say "The Beach Boys" anywhere on the front cover, just Carl and the Passions.

I don't hate this album, but it seriously lacks continuity. It sounds like a bunch of solo recordings, versus the work of a functioning group.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

WestwayKid
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 6704
Joined: 20 Sep 2017, 8:22am
Location: Mill-e-wah-que

Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

Post by WestwayKid »

matedog wrote:
16 Feb 2023, 11:53am
I'm trying to wrap up the Surf's Up album review but the last fucking song is Surf's Up. Anything Smile related is a convoluted god damn mess. Now I have to listen to the 1966 backing track with the 1971 Carl vocal so I can compare it to the 1971 backing track with the 1966 Brian vocal.
It's got such a tortured journey from start to finish. From what I understand, the 1st movement is a Carl 1971 lead over the original 1966 backing track. The 2nd movement uses a December 1966 Brian solo piano performance. No complete version of the 2nd movement has ever been found. Carl then added in the "Child is Father of the Man" coda, with Al on lead. It then finishes with the "A children's song" tag that Brian popped down and wrote at the end of the 1971 session.

There are also other versions. Brian attempted to redo the song in 1967. Carl led the band through a new version at the start of the 1971 session, but it was ultimately scrapped.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 25804
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

Post by matedog »

WestwayKid wrote:
17 Feb 2023, 1:45pm
matedog wrote:
16 Feb 2023, 11:53am
I'm trying to wrap up the Surf's Up album review but the last fucking song is Surf's Up. Anything Smile related is a convoluted god damn mess. Now I have to listen to the 1966 backing track with the 1971 Carl vocal so I can compare it to the 1971 backing track with the 1966 Brian vocal.
It's got such a tortured journey from start to finish. From what I understand, the 1st movement is a Carl 1971 lead over the original 1966 backing track. The 2nd movement uses a December 1966 Brian solo piano performance. No complete version of the 2nd movement has ever been found. Carl then added in the "Child is Father of the Man" coda, with Al on lead. It then finishes with the "A children's song" tag that Brian popped down and wrote at the end of the 1971 session.

There are also other versions. Brian attempted to redo the song in 1967. Carl led the band through a new version at the start of the 1971 session, but it was ultimately scrapped.
Don’t forget Brian’s 2004 version! Forgot to listen to that one.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

WestwayKid
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 6704
Joined: 20 Sep 2017, 8:22am
Location: Mill-e-wah-que

Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

Post by WestwayKid »

matedog wrote:
17 Feb 2023, 2:14pm
WestwayKid wrote:
17 Feb 2023, 1:45pm
matedog wrote:
16 Feb 2023, 11:53am
I'm trying to wrap up the Surf's Up album review but the last fucking song is Surf's Up. Anything Smile related is a convoluted god damn mess. Now I have to listen to the 1966 backing track with the 1971 Carl vocal so I can compare it to the 1971 backing track with the 1966 Brian vocal.
It's got such a tortured journey from start to finish. From what I understand, the 1st movement is a Carl 1971 lead over the original 1966 backing track. The 2nd movement uses a December 1966 Brian solo piano performance. No complete version of the 2nd movement has ever been found. Carl then added in the "Child is Father of the Man" coda, with Al on lead. It then finishes with the "A children's song" tag that Brian popped down and wrote at the end of the 1971 session.

There are also other versions. Brian attempted to redo the song in 1967. Carl led the band through a new version at the start of the 1971 session, but it was ultimately scrapped.
Don’t forget Brian’s 2004 version! Forgot to listen to that one.
https://on.soundcloud.com/y7xnm

This is maybe my fave version, with Brian's vocal combined with the original 1966 backing track. I think Mark Linett did this one.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 25804
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

Post by matedog »

WestwayKid wrote:
17 Feb 2023, 3:40pm
matedog wrote:
17 Feb 2023, 2:14pm
WestwayKid wrote:
17 Feb 2023, 1:45pm
matedog wrote:
16 Feb 2023, 11:53am
I'm trying to wrap up the Surf's Up album review but the last fucking song is Surf's Up. Anything Smile related is a convoluted god damn mess. Now I have to listen to the 1966 backing track with the 1971 Carl vocal so I can compare it to the 1971 backing track with the 1966 Brian vocal.
It's got such a tortured journey from start to finish. From what I understand, the 1st movement is a Carl 1971 lead over the original 1966 backing track. The 2nd movement uses a December 1966 Brian solo piano performance. No complete version of the 2nd movement has ever been found. Carl then added in the "Child is Father of the Man" coda, with Al on lead. It then finishes with the "A children's song" tag that Brian popped down and wrote at the end of the 1971 session.

There are also other versions. Brian attempted to redo the song in 1967. Carl led the band through a new version at the start of the 1971 session, but it was ultimately scrapped.
Don’t forget Brian’s 2004 version! Forgot to listen to that one.
https://on.soundcloud.com/y7xnm

This is maybe my fave version, with Brian's vocal combined with the original 1966 backing track. I think Mark Linett did this one.
Hmm, that file isn't loading. Is it set to private?

A few things I find interesting - how was the second movement supposed to be arranged, instrumentally? I suppose we can go with the subtle stuff from the 04 version. Also, how was the song supposed to end? The last movement was added in 71 and now seems canon based on inclusion in the 04 version, though I don't believe that was even considered in 66/67? The 67 version certainly lacks that part.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 25804
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

Post by matedog »

Image
Don't Go Near the Water - predicts both the 1972 Clean Water Act as well as 1992's "Summer in Paradise." Weird ass song. You have this pleasant Mike Love part and then some very Brian Wilson interstitial parts. Then there's this strident Carl part where he's shouting very staccato. The backing is all chaotic and then he ends with a Little Richard "oooh" (predicting their future "Happy Endings" collab???). It's not a great sign when the Mike Love part returns as a welcome reprieve. Then the last 30 seconds or so is this pleasant instrumental bit. Alright, then.

Long Promised Road - Real cool hook from Carl in the chorus on this one. Probably a classic. Production ain't great with the lead vocal jarringly high and I wish I could hear a live version from the 80s or 90s when Carl's voice had substantially more grit, but those are minor critiques. This song is great.

Take a Load Off Your Feet - Catchy little song about how important your feet are and that you should take care of them. I guess that's what they chose to write about those days.

Disney Girls (1957) - The issue with 3/4 time is where do you put the snare? Where is the upbeat? Is it the 2nd or 3rd beat? Either one is wrong. You can go all oompahpah and do snare on 2nd AND 3rd beat, but no, don't do that. It's the same issue with 5/4 time, but that's such a god forsaken time signature, you only do it for the sake of doing it. You aren't trying to make something listenable if your song is in 5/4 (mild exception for The Rentals "My Summer Girl"). Even on this song, the drummer doesn't know what he's doing. On one chorus it goes on the 2nd beat, on another the 3rd. Oh fuck, it's Daryl "Drummer" Dragon on drums? Bruce does this song on his shitty 1977 solo album and wisely doesn't have drums. There's a song on this album called "Rock and Roll Survivor." And it's soft as shit. God he sucks so bad. What did you survive? "Oh no Blondie and Ricky rock too hard, I'm out!" 

As for this song, it's probably the best thing I've heard from him, but that's not saying much. It's a deep nostalgia dive, but maybe not quite as schmaltzy as his usual stuff.

Student Demonstration Time - One of the most raucous, nasty instrumentals they've ever done. Sick leads presumably from Carl and some great distorted vocals. It's a cover of Riot In Cell Block 9, but with some of the dumbest lyrics ever committed to tape. To make matters worse, Mike is basically telling civil rights protestors to stop being so uppity. 

Feel Flows - Carl's other song on the album is also a winner. Lots of good hooks throughout. The meandering guitar solo coinciding with the very late 60s flute solo isn't so hot and really drags on the song a bit. It's sub Long Promised Road, but has plenty of merit. 

Lookin' at Tomorrow (A Welfare Song) - Al does a pleasant enough pastiche of The Beatles. There's a skat part in the middle that sucks, but it's sub-2 minutes so whatever.

A Day in the Life of a Tree - I thought the two randos were bad, now we have their fucking manager singing a song about being a tree over some blaring church organ. This is the worst political biographical tree song since Rush's "The Trees."  Who wants this shit?

Til I Die - I guess this isn't bad? The melody is really drab. Yeah it's got some weird Brian Wilson chord changes, but it doesn't add up to much for me. 

Surf's Up - A track from the lost Smile sessions supposedly added to the album at the behest of the record company who thought "weird ass art songs from four years ago are sure to make this album a hit!"

The song is a ballad of sorts and I detect three distinct sections in this song. The first and second parts are piano led with strong quarter note pulse rhythms. The first section is more traditional with the melodies cycling through two times. There's some cool supporting instrumentation with a french horn and a descending glockenspiel that are well placed. The second section is more open ended with tempo shifts throughout.  The tacked on coda is very Smile even if it was recorded for this album from the discarded 66/67 tapes even moving to a swung rhythm after being straight the remainder of the song.

I still don't know if I like this song or not. Like a lot of the Smile material, it is seemingly made up of disparate pieces of music with baffling chord changes and ambiguous key signatures. I don't know if Brian is winging it by ear or if he purposefully does this. Based on that video I posted awhile back, he doesn't seem to know much theory as Carl had to tell him what an ostinato and chord inversions are which suggests the latter. The vocal performances by Carl and Brian are some of their best. Melodically, it has some nice bits, even if it lacks the pop punch of GV. I am finally starting to understand the kind of wondrous/dreamy aspects of the song now that I understand the lyrical context better, but I'm still not 100% convinced it fully succeeds in execution.
Last edited by matedog on 17 Feb 2023, 8:11pm, edited 1 time in total.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

WestwayKid
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 6704
Joined: 20 Sep 2017, 8:22am
Location: Mill-e-wah-que

Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

Post by WestwayKid »

matedog wrote:
17 Feb 2023, 4:59pm
WestwayKid wrote:
17 Feb 2023, 3:40pm
matedog wrote:
17 Feb 2023, 2:14pm
WestwayKid wrote:
17 Feb 2023, 1:45pm
matedog wrote:
16 Feb 2023, 11:53am
I'm trying to wrap up the Surf's Up album review but the last fucking song is Surf's Up. Anything Smile related is a convoluted god damn mess. Now I have to listen to the 1966 backing track with the 1971 Carl vocal so I can compare it to the 1971 backing track with the 1966 Brian vocal.
It's got such a tortured journey from start to finish. From what I understand, the 1st movement is a Carl 1971 lead over the original 1966 backing track. The 2nd movement uses a December 1966 Brian solo piano performance. No complete version of the 2nd movement has ever been found. Carl then added in the "Child is Father of the Man" coda, with Al on lead. It then finishes with the "A children's song" tag that Brian popped down and wrote at the end of the 1971 session.

There are also other versions. Brian attempted to redo the song in 1967. Carl led the band through a new version at the start of the 1971 session, but it was ultimately scrapped.
Don’t forget Brian’s 2004 version! Forgot to listen to that one.
https://on.soundcloud.com/y7xnm

This is maybe my fave version, with Brian's vocal combined with the original 1966 backing track. I think Mark Linett did this one.
Hmm, that file isn't loading. Is it set to private?

A few things I find interesting - how was the second movement supposed to be arranged, instrumentally? I suppose we can go with the subtle stuff from the 04 version. Also, how was the song supposed to end? The last movement was added in 71 and now seems canon based on inclusion in the 04 version, though I don't believe that was even considered in 66/67? The 67 version certainly lacks that part.
Brian claimed that Father of the Man was always supposed to have ended the song. He's also said he never completed the second half of the song during the initial sessions. The solo piano version from December 1966 just fades with a wordless vocal line, but you can hear where Child would have been dropped in if that's what he was thinking. The solo piano version from late 1967 ends the same way. Carl is the one who actually used the unreleased Child as the tag at the end of the 1971 version. It definitely works. I've always believed the coda wasn't thought up until 1971, and that it was Brian's main contribution towards finishing the song.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

WestwayKid
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 6704
Joined: 20 Sep 2017, 8:22am
Location: Mill-e-wah-que

Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

Post by WestwayKid »

matedog wrote:
17 Feb 2023, 4:59pm
WestwayKid wrote:
17 Feb 2023, 3:40pm
matedog wrote:
17 Feb 2023, 2:14pm
WestwayKid wrote:
17 Feb 2023, 1:45pm
matedog wrote:
16 Feb 2023, 11:53am
I'm trying to wrap up the Surf's Up album review but the last fucking song is Surf's Up. Anything Smile related is a convoluted god damn mess. Now I have to listen to the 1966 backing track with the 1971 Carl vocal so I can compare it to the 1971 backing track with the 1966 Brian vocal.
It's got such a tortured journey from start to finish. From what I understand, the 1st movement is a Carl 1971 lead over the original 1966 backing track. The 2nd movement uses a December 1966 Brian solo piano performance. No complete version of the 2nd movement has ever been found. Carl then added in the "Child is Father of the Man" coda, with Al on lead. It then finishes with the "A children's song" tag that Brian popped down and wrote at the end of the 1971 session.

There are also other versions. Brian attempted to redo the song in 1967. Carl led the band through a new version at the start of the 1971 session, but it was ultimately scrapped.
Don’t forget Brian’s 2004 version! Forgot to listen to that one.
https://on.soundcloud.com/y7xnm

This is maybe my fave version, with Brian's vocal combined with the original 1966 backing track. I think Mark Linett did this one.
Hmm, that file isn't loading. Is it set to private?

A few things I find interesting - how was the second movement supposed to be arranged, instrumentally? I suppose we can go with the subtle stuff from the 04 version. Also, how was the song supposed to end? The last movement was added in 71 and now seems canon based on inclusion in the 04 version, though I don't believe that was even considered in 66/67? The 67 version certainly lacks that part.


This is the version I was referring to. I believe Linett put Brian's January 1966 vocal over the top of the finished 1971 version of the song.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

Post Reply