The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 1 Track 2 Vote - Round 2

Side 1, Track 2 - Round 2

Poll ended at 11 Jul 2020, 6:45pm

Lene Lovich, "Lucky Number"
4
19%
Chumbawamba, "Timebomb"
3
14%
The Breeders, "Cannonball"
7
33%
ABBA, "Dancing Queen"
7
33%
 
Total votes: 21

matedog
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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 1 Track 2 Vote - Round 2

Post by matedog »

gkbill wrote:
13 Jul 2020, 11:35pm
matedog wrote:
13 Jul 2020, 11:25pm
Wolter wrote:
13 Jul 2020, 7:27pm
Heston wrote:
13 Jul 2020, 4:50pm
matedog wrote:
13 Jul 2020, 4:23pm

That's not the argument I'm making at all. She's got the record/ticket sales, big endorsements, etc. to be on par with Madonna but moves past her for her importance of bringing a strong black female voice to the mainstream and that voice reached the presidency.

Keep in mind, you grew up with Madonna-mania and are well past (as am I) the age of knowing the pop culture pulse of really the last twenty years.
But that is my point. If she was as culturally significant as Madonna, even old farts like myself would be aware of her every move. As it stands I think I could confidently name one song by her.
. Yeah. Even my fucking grandparents were aware of Madonna and had opinions. I don’t think my dad has any idea who Beyoncé is, and he’s roughly the same age they were then.
My grandparents had no clue who Madonna was in the 80's. My mom knows who Beyonce is and she's the same age they were in the 80's, if not older.

Beyonce performed at the Super Bowl and Obama's inauguration. I could cite countless articles about her cultural importance, particularly in the last 10 years, but this is probably one area where we agree to disagree.
Hello,

I'll risk a potentially uninformed take on this. Madonna challenged the public's status quo on several issues. I don't think Beyonce has done the same - or at least to the same extent. I think much of this can be put down to the "Hey, Republicans buy sneakers, too..." argument proffered by Michael Jordan when asked why he avoided putting forward his opinions on events of the day.
I hinted at this earlier, but that would be accurate for someone like Whitney Houston.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... he-margins
"The singer’s newest video is an inherently political and a deeply personal look at the black and queer bodies who have most often borne the brunt of our politics"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47982033
(On her Netflix special covering her Coachella headling): "It is a celebration of black American culture with education, specifically Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs), serving as the foundation of her message."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/14/politics ... index.html
"The music icon wrote an open letter to Attorney General Daniel Cameron on Sunday calling for criminal charges against the three Louisville Metro Police officers involved in the fatal shooting of Breonna Taylor."
https://www.billboard.com/articles/colu ... e-activist:
"On the red carpet, Bey invited the mothers of Trayvon Martin, Oscar Grant, Mike Brown and Eric Garner -- some of whom made a cameo in Lemonade -- to the awards ceremony. Next, she posed with the rest of her black, all-female Lemonade squad on the carpet featuring women of all different shapes, colors, sizes and backgrounds."
"2017 - Beyoncé Presents Colin Kaepernick with the Muhammad Ali Legacy Award"

Don't get me wrong, she's not Nina Simone (and I had to remind a coworker of that when he thought her musical was thoroughly political, it's not) or even Kendrick, but to liken her to Michael Jordan's political activism/awareness (or lack thereof) is definitely off base.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

gkbill
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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 1 Track 2 Vote - Round 2

Post by gkbill »

matedog wrote:
14 Jul 2020, 9:32am
gkbill wrote:
13 Jul 2020, 11:35pm
matedog wrote:
13 Jul 2020, 11:25pm
Wolter wrote:
13 Jul 2020, 7:27pm
Heston wrote:
13 Jul 2020, 4:50pm


But that is my point. If she was as culturally significant as Madonna, even old farts like myself would be aware of her every move. As it stands I think I could confidently name one song by her.
. Yeah. Even my fucking grandparents were aware of Madonna and had opinions. I don’t think my dad has any idea who Beyoncé is, and he’s roughly the same age they were then.
My grandparents had no clue who Madonna was in the 80's. My mom knows who Beyonce is and she's the same age they were in the 80's, if not older.

Beyonce performed at the Super Bowl and Obama's inauguration. I could cite countless articles about her cultural importance, particularly in the last 10 years, but this is probably one area where we agree to disagree.
Hello,

I'll risk a potentially uninformed take on this. Madonna challenged the public's status quo on several issues. I don't think Beyonce has done the same - or at least to the same extent. I think much of this can be put down to the "Hey, Republicans buy sneakers, too..." argument proffered by Michael Jordan when asked why he avoided putting forward his opinions on events of the day.
I hinted at this earlier, but that would be accurate for someone like Whitney Houston.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... he-margins
"The singer’s newest video is an inherently political and a deeply personal look at the black and queer bodies who have most often borne the brunt of our politics"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47982033
(On her Netflix special covering her Coachella headling): "It is a celebration of black American culture with education, specifically Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs), serving as the foundation of her message."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/14/politics ... index.html
"The music icon wrote an open letter to Attorney General Daniel Cameron on Sunday calling for criminal charges against the three Louisville Metro Police officers involved in the fatal shooting of Breonna Taylor."
https://www.billboard.com/articles/colu ... e-activist:
"On the red carpet, Bey invited the mothers of Trayvon Martin, Oscar Grant, Mike Brown and Eric Garner -- some of whom made a cameo in Lemonade -- to the awards ceremony. Next, she posed with the rest of her black, all-female Lemonade squad on the carpet featuring women of all different shapes, colors, sizes and backgrounds."
"2017 - Beyoncé Presents Colin Kaepernick with the Muhammad Ali Legacy Award"

Don't get me wrong, she's not Nina Simone (and I had to remind a coworker of that when he thought her musical was thoroughly political, it's not) or even Kendrick, but to liken her to Michael Jordan's political activism/awareness (or lack thereof) is definitely off base.
Hello,

Potentially uninformed now becomes confirmed uninformed. Thanks for good sourcing!

revbob
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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 1 Track 2 Vote - Round 2

Post by revbob »

Yeah, I dont claim to know what is happening in mainstream pop culture but I do know Beyonce is pretty damn big and gets a lot of respect from the African American community and beyond.

Her media platform is different from that of Madonna's so it is hard to compare. Madonna had the full command of MTV which although hard to believe now was a pretty big force in pop culture at the time.

matedog
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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 1 Track 2 Vote - Round 2

Post by matedog »

revbob wrote:
14 Jul 2020, 11:05am

Her media platform is different from that of Madonna's so it is hard to compare. Madonna had the full command of MTV which although hard to believe now was a pretty big force in pop culture at the time.
I think that was Doc and Wolt's point from the get-go. Full command of MTV was huge at the time, but on the other hand, not everyone even had MTV at the time. Still, content source was far more singular/limited back then vs. now.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

revbob
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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 1 Track 2 Vote - Round 2

Post by revbob »

matedog wrote:
14 Jul 2020, 12:36pm
revbob wrote:
14 Jul 2020, 11:05am

Her media platform is different from that of Madonna's so it is hard to compare. Madonna had the full command of MTV which although hard to believe now was a pretty big force in pop culture at the time.
I think that was Doc and Wolt's point from the get-go. Full command of MTV was huge at the time, but on the other hand, not everyone even had MTV at the time. Still, content source was far more singular/limited back then vs. now.
Yeah, I think Beyonce would have been at least a comparable force in that era.

Wolter
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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 1 Track 2 Vote - Round 2

Post by Wolter »

revbob wrote:
14 Jul 2020, 1:42pm
matedog wrote:
14 Jul 2020, 12:36pm
revbob wrote:
14 Jul 2020, 11:05am

Her media platform is different from that of Madonna's so it is hard to compare. Madonna had the full command of MTV which although hard to believe now was a pretty big force in pop culture at the time.
I think that was Doc and Wolt's point from the get-go. Full command of MTV was huge at the time, but on the other hand, not everyone even had MTV at the time. Still, content source was far more singular/limited back then vs. now.
Yeah, I think Beyonce would have been at least a comparable force in that era.
Oh definitely. Like I said above it has nothing to do with talent. Just opportunity and material conditions.
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