Hello,
This has been fun. At some point, I hope we meet up for a beer ASAP!
Hello,
No fucking way if we are talking Beyonce. She, I would argue, has greatly eclipsed Madonna as a cultural force. She has the hit records, headlined stadiums and Coachella, the superstar marriage, the instant pop culture phrases (Surfboard, hot sauce in my bag, that great Red Lobster line that spiked their profits), the lucrative Pepsi endorsement (which I guess matches Madonna and add shitty film roles to that too), the tight friendship with the president. It's probably not well understood amongst middle age white guys on a punk rock board, but my understanding (i'm not remotely pretending to be anywhere near an expert on this) is that she is pretty much intouchable in the African American community and has drawn a lot of attention to the culture and issues within the community (a stark contrast to Whitney for example).Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 2:28pmPut another way, Madonna represented and encouraged discourse about the nature of American life in the 80s. She was said to represent the very complicated legacy of second-wave feminism and post-sexual revolution life, as well as Reagan era hedonism and materialism. I struggle to think of any musician now who can credibly play that role. And it's not, I maintain, because Madonna was such a special personality—tho she was that—but the nature of the media was a funnel that allowed her to become a centralized figure. Our relationship with media now is (I keep using this word) fragmented that people can't command the same kind of attention, certainly not for the same length of time.
Nah. It's like saying Bruno Mars is bigger than Michael Jackson.matedog wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:14pmNo fucking way if we are talking Beyonce. She, I would argue, has greatly eclipsed Madonna as a cultural force. She has the hit records, headlined stadiums and Coachella, the superstar marriage, the instant pop culture phrases (Surfboard, hot sauce in my bag, that great Red Lobster line that spiked their profits), the lucrative Pepsi endorsement (which I guess matches Madonna and add shitty film roles to that too), the tight friendship with the president. It's probably not well understood amongst middle age white guys on a punk rock board, but my understanding (i'm not remotely pretending to be anywhere near an expert on this) is that she is pretty much intouchable in the African American community and has drawn a lot of attention to the culture and issues within the community (a stark contrast to Whitney for example).Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 2:28pmPut another way, Madonna represented and encouraged discourse about the nature of American life in the 80s. She was said to represent the very complicated legacy of second-wave feminism and post-sexual revolution life, as well as Reagan era hedonism and materialism. I struggle to think of any musician now who can credibly play that role. And it's not, I maintain, because Madonna was such a special personality—tho she was that—but the nature of the media was a funnel that allowed her to become a centralized figure. Our relationship with media now is (I keep using this word) fragmented that people can't command the same kind of attention, certainly not for the same length of time.
That's not the argument I'm making at all. She's got the record/ticket sales, big endorsements, etc. to be on par with Madonna but moves past her for her importance of bringing a strong black female voice to the mainstream and that voice reached the presidency.Heston wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:17pmNah. It's like saying Bruno Mars is bigger than Michael Jackson.matedog wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:14pmNo fucking way if we are talking Beyonce. She, I would argue, has greatly eclipsed Madonna as a cultural force. She has the hit records, headlined stadiums and Coachella, the superstar marriage, the instant pop culture phrases (Surfboard, hot sauce in my bag, that great Red Lobster line that spiked their profits), the lucrative Pepsi endorsement (which I guess matches Madonna and add shitty film roles to that too), the tight friendship with the president. It's probably not well understood amongst middle age white guys on a punk rock board, but my understanding (i'm not remotely pretending to be anywhere near an expert on this) is that she is pretty much intouchable in the African American community and has drawn a lot of attention to the culture and issues within the community (a stark contrast to Whitney for example).Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 2:28pmPut another way, Madonna represented and encouraged discourse about the nature of American life in the 80s. She was said to represent the very complicated legacy of second-wave feminism and post-sexual revolution life, as well as Reagan era hedonism and materialism. I struggle to think of any musician now who can credibly play that role. And it's not, I maintain, because Madonna was such a special personality—tho she was that—but the nature of the media was a funnel that allowed her to become a centralized figure. Our relationship with media now is (I keep using this word) fragmented that people can't command the same kind of attention, certainly not for the same length of time.
I’m sure it was me who did that. I am quite the scamp.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:06pmMy memory may be fuzzy here, but I think I was christened as one of the original SRPs.
Someday my lawyer or hired goon will contact you about that.Wolter wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:30pmI’m sure it was me who did that. I am quite the scamp.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:06pmMy memory may be fuzzy here, but I think I was christened as one of the original SRPs.
The main thing I hesitate about this is how prominent she is as a mainstream voice. But that's because I'm skeptical that a meaningful mainstream exists anymore. But if there's a case to be made for a musician achieving the kind of status we've been talking about, I'd say it's Beyonce.
But that is my point. If she was as culturally significant as Madonna, even old farts like myself would be aware of her every move. As it stands I think I could confidently name one song by her.matedog wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:23pmThat's not the argument I'm making at all. She's got the record/ticket sales, big endorsements, etc. to be on par with Madonna but moves past her for her importance of bringing a strong black female voice to the mainstream and that voice reached the presidency.Heston wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:17pmNah. It's like saying Bruno Mars is bigger than Michael Jackson.matedog wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:14pmNo fucking way if we are talking Beyonce. She, I would argue, has greatly eclipsed Madonna as a cultural force. She has the hit records, headlined stadiums and Coachella, the superstar marriage, the instant pop culture phrases (Surfboard, hot sauce in my bag, that great Red Lobster line that spiked their profits), the lucrative Pepsi endorsement (which I guess matches Madonna and add shitty film roles to that too), the tight friendship with the president. It's probably not well understood amongst middle age white guys on a punk rock board, but my understanding (i'm not remotely pretending to be anywhere near an expert on this) is that she is pretty much intouchable in the African American community and has drawn a lot of attention to the culture and issues within the community (a stark contrast to Whitney for example).Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 2:28pmPut another way, Madonna represented and encouraged discourse about the nature of American life in the 80s. She was said to represent the very complicated legacy of second-wave feminism and post-sexual revolution life, as well as Reagan era hedonism and materialism. I struggle to think of any musician now who can credibly play that role. And it's not, I maintain, because Madonna was such a special personality—tho she was that—but the nature of the media was a funnel that allowed her to become a centralized figure. Our relationship with media now is (I keep using this word) fragmented that people can't command the same kind of attention, certainly not for the same length of time.
Keep in mind, you grew up with Madonna-mania and are well past (as am I) the age of knowing the pop culture pulse of really the last twenty years.
This checks out.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:06pmMy memory may be fuzzy here, but I think I was christened as one of the original SRPs.
Coincidentally(?), I listened to a Sufjan Stevens record yesterday. Sunrise, sunset …revbob wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 5:00pmThis checks out.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:06pmMy memory may be fuzzy here, but I think I was christened as one of the original SRPs.
“Hired goons?”Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:43pmSomeday my lawyer or hired goon will contact you about that.Wolter wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:30pmI’m sure it was me who did that. I am quite the scamp.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:06pmMy memory may be fuzzy here, but I think I was christened as one of the original SRPs.
. Yeah. Even my fucking grandparents were aware of Madonna and had opinions. I don’t think my dad has any idea who Beyoncé is, and he’s roughly the same age they were then.Heston wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:50pmBut that is my point. If she was as culturally significant as Madonna, even old farts like myself would be aware of her every move. As it stands I think I could confidently name one song by her.matedog wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:23pmThat's not the argument I'm making at all. She's got the record/ticket sales, big endorsements, etc. to be on par with Madonna but moves past her for her importance of bringing a strong black female voice to the mainstream and that voice reached the presidency.Heston wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:17pmNah. It's like saying Bruno Mars is bigger than Michael Jackson.matedog wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:14pmNo fucking way if we are talking Beyonce. She, I would argue, has greatly eclipsed Madonna as a cultural force. She has the hit records, headlined stadiums and Coachella, the superstar marriage, the instant pop culture phrases (Surfboard, hot sauce in my bag, that great Red Lobster line that spiked their profits), the lucrative Pepsi endorsement (which I guess matches Madonna and add shitty film roles to that too), the tight friendship with the president. It's probably not well understood amongst middle age white guys on a punk rock board, but my understanding (i'm not remotely pretending to be anywhere near an expert on this) is that she is pretty much intouchable in the African American community and has drawn a lot of attention to the culture and issues within the community (a stark contrast to Whitney for example).Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 2:28pmPut another way, Madonna represented and encouraged discourse about the nature of American life in the 80s. She was said to represent the very complicated legacy of second-wave feminism and post-sexual revolution life, as well as Reagan era hedonism and materialism. I struggle to think of any musician now who can credibly play that role. And it's not, I maintain, because Madonna was such a special personality—tho she was that—but the nature of the media was a funnel that allowed her to become a centralized figure. Our relationship with media now is (I keep using this word) fragmented that people can't command the same kind of attention, certainly not for the same length of time.
Keep in mind, you grew up with Madonna-mania and are well past (as am I) the age of knowing the pop culture pulse of really the last twenty years.
Wolter wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 7:24pm“Hired goons?”Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:43pmSomeday my lawyer or hired goon will contact you about that.Wolter wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:30pmI’m sure it was me who did that. I am quite the scamp.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:06pmMy memory may be fuzzy here, but I think I was christened as one of the original SRPs.
My grandparents had no clue who Madonna was in the 80's. My mom knows who Beyonce is and she's the same age they were in the 80's, if not older.Wolter wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 7:27pm. Yeah. Even my fucking grandparents were aware of Madonna and had opinions. I don’t think my dad has any idea who Beyoncé is, and he’s roughly the same age they were then.Heston wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:50pmBut that is my point. If she was as culturally significant as Madonna, even old farts like myself would be aware of her every move. As it stands I think I could confidently name one song by her.matedog wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:23pmThat's not the argument I'm making at all. She's got the record/ticket sales, big endorsements, etc. to be on par with Madonna but moves past her for her importance of bringing a strong black female voice to the mainstream and that voice reached the presidency.Heston wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:17pmNah. It's like saying Bruno Mars is bigger than Michael Jackson.matedog wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:14pm
No fucking way if we are talking Beyonce. She, I would argue, has greatly eclipsed Madonna as a cultural force. She has the hit records, headlined stadiums and Coachella, the superstar marriage, the instant pop culture phrases (Surfboard, hot sauce in my bag, that great Red Lobster line that spiked their profits), the lucrative Pepsi endorsement (which I guess matches Madonna and add shitty film roles to that too), the tight friendship with the president. It's probably not well understood amongst middle age white guys on a punk rock board, but my understanding (i'm not remotely pretending to be anywhere near an expert on this) is that she is pretty much intouchable in the African American community and has drawn a lot of attention to the culture and issues within the community (a stark contrast to Whitney for example).
Keep in mind, you grew up with Madonna-mania and are well past (as am I) the age of knowing the pop culture pulse of really the last twenty years.
Hello,matedog wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 11:25pmMy grandparents had no clue who Madonna was in the 80's. My mom knows who Beyonce is and she's the same age they were in the 80's, if not older.Wolter wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 7:27pm. Yeah. Even my fucking grandparents were aware of Madonna and had opinions. I don’t think my dad has any idea who Beyoncé is, and he’s roughly the same age they were then.Heston wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:50pmBut that is my point. If she was as culturally significant as Madonna, even old farts like myself would be aware of her every move. As it stands I think I could confidently name one song by her.matedog wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 4:23pmThat's not the argument I'm making at all. She's got the record/ticket sales, big endorsements, etc. to be on par with Madonna but moves past her for her importance of bringing a strong black female voice to the mainstream and that voice reached the presidency.
Keep in mind, you grew up with Madonna-mania and are well past (as am I) the age of knowing the pop culture pulse of really the last twenty years.
Beyonce performed at the Super Bowl and Obama's inauguration. I could cite countless articles about her cultural importance, particularly in the last 10 years, but this is probably one area where we agree to disagree.