The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 2 Vote - (The Real) Round 3

Side 2, Track 2 - Round 3

Poll ended at 30 Aug 2020, 1:10pm

Garbage, "Stupid Girl"
9
50%
Tracey Ullman, "They Don't Know"
9
50%
 
Total votes: 18

Marky Dread
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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 2 Vote - (The Real) Round 3

Post by Marky Dread »

Heston wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 11:18am
Marky Dread wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 10:19am
Heston wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 9:46am
Flex wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 9:10am
Marky Dread wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 8:55am
Right though it should make no difference to the outcome.

Here's my view. "They Don't Know" is a cover of which the original is better by a country mile.

"Stupid Girl" is an original song using a sample of a great track.
This, to me, is pretty good tiebreaker material (I'm favor of Garbage, to be clear). If the song under consideration isn't even its best version, how can it be on an all time greatest collection?
I think it is the best version. I know Kirsty is much cooler than Tracey and greatly missed but I thought Tracey's version was more sprightly and she sings it very well. And you get the bonus of Kirsty on very prominent harmonies. It was also the first version I heard as Kirsty's version never charted.
Didn't because...

MacColl's "They Don't Know" reached number two on the Music Week airplay chart[4] without generating sufficient sales to reach the UK Singles Chart - a shortfall blamed on a strike at the distributors for Stiff Records keeping the single out of stores, although its producer Liam Sternberg attributes the failure of "They Don't Know" to ill feeling which developed between MacColl and Stiff Records president Dave Robinson: (Sternberg quote:) "Kirsty and Dave didn’t get along...She didn’t want to sign a longer deal, so Dave didn’t promote the record. [Despite] airplay...they didn’t press any more [so] no records [were] sold because there were no records out there."[1] Promo copies of a followup single: "You Caught Me Out", were pressed in October 1979 but Stiff opted to shelve the single, with MacColl's first release subsequent to "They Don't Know" being her remake of "Keep Your Hands Off My Baby" released in 1981 on Polydor.

Kirsty's version is so better than Tracey's it hurts.
Well it's not like they're radically different. I certainly prefer Kirsty as a singer but I just like the vibe on the Tracey version.
70s boy Vs. 80s boy. Put 'em up put 'em up!

It's a great song we can all agree on that much. But my dislike for Tracey puts me out on the Garbage pile. :mrgreen:
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Toppers Boppers
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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 2 Vote - (The Real) Round 3

Post by Toppers Boppers »

If only Kirsty and Topper had recorded a track together. Game over :approve:
'On the tenterhooks of a Cincinnati.'

Heston
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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 2 Vote - (The Real) Round 3

Post by Heston »

Why the intense dislike for Tracey, Marky? I don't like her as a comedienne but I thought she had a couple of good songs. Breakaway is ace and Sunglasses wasn't a bad tune.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 2 Vote - (The Real) Round 3

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Thanks very much for the continued debate and input. I’ve decided in favour of Tracey Ullman’s “They Don’t Know” for a rather simple reason: It had the strongest argument in favour of it (Silent Majority’s contribution). To a much lesser degree, I found a bit appealing Low Down Low’s observation that to this point you all hadn’t chosen a song from the 80s (albeit one inspired by early 60s girl groups). That’s not to suggest an obligation to seek some kind of balance or even representation across decades, but it’s not a bad thing at all.

I did like Mimi’s reference to the Clash connection in “Stupid Girl.” It only has significance for a Clash community, but it certainly applies here. But, unfortunately, that’s all anyone was willing to say about the merits of the song (other than it’s an original, which is rather limited praise). Take out the Topper sample, does anyone like the song? Does it have anything going for it? I have no idea based on the conversation.

Given that so much of the discussion turned to Kirsty v. Tracey, I’ll say a bit about that. I didn’t give it any consideration because I didn’t see its relevance here. Kirsty MacColl’s version wasn’t nominated, so contrasting it with Tracey Ullman’s cover would be placing an extra hurdle that Garbage’s “Stupid Girl” didn’t have to deal with. Should Garbage be docked because it’s, arguably, not as good as “Train in Vain”? Introducing other songs not up for consideration as a way of evaluating what was nominated makes no sense to me.

As well, the nature of this game isn’t about greatest version of a song or what have you. This vote was only the best Side 2, Track 2 of those nominated. That’s it. Not what makes the best album or whether a song would otherwise be considered an all-time great. As others have mentioned elsewhere (including me), that’s a flaw in the structure of the game, but that’s what we operate under. Whether KMacC’s version is better (or, rather, preferred) to TU’s really doesn’t matter because that’s out of the scope of the original question—what’s the best (or, again, preferred) Side 2, Track 2? And that was narrowed down to TU and Garbage, so that’s all that matters.

In the end, what I saw was one argument for “They Don’t Know” and one for “Stupid Girl,” and a whole lot of arguments against Tracey Ullman—which is not the same thing as an argument for “Stupid Girl.” In the end, I preferred SM’s argument because it made a claim for the nature of the song itself rather than its connection to another band.

Damn you all for handing another win to Heston.
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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 2 Vote - (The Real) Round 3

Post by Heston »

That's three tracks so far for the man of poor taste. Result! :mrgreen:
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 2 Vote - (The Real) Round 3

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Heston wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 1:53pm
That's three tracks so far for the man of poor taste. Result! :mrgreen:
Everyone else needs to take a long look in the mirror and ask themselves how this could happen.
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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 2 Vote - (The Real) Round 3

Post by Mimi »

I love Stupid Girl. It's a great song. I didn't think it needed to be said. I mean why nominate a song you don't even like? ???? That's it. I'm not arguing about this anymore. I'll let the songs speak for themselves. I have bad taste anyway, right Heston?!

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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 2 Vote - (The Real) Round 3

Post by revbob »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 2:02pm
Heston wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 1:53pm
That's three tracks so far for the man of poor taste. Result! :mrgreen:
Everyone else needs to take a long look in the mirror and ask themselves how this could happen.
You didn't count my absentee ballot.

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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 2 Vote - (The Real) Round 3

Post by revbob »

Mimi wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 2:21pm
I love Stupid Girl. It's a great song. I didn't think it needed to be said. I mean why nominate a song you don't even like? ???? That's it. I'm not arguing about this anymore. I'll let the songs speak for themselves. I have bad taste anyway, right Heston?!
In his defense (and it pains me to say so) he did say it was a Cracking song.

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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 2 Vote - (The Real) Round 3

Post by Dr. Medulla »

revbob wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 2:56pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 2:02pm
Heston wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 1:53pm
That's three tracks so far for the man of poor taste. Result! :mrgreen:
Everyone else needs to take a long look in the mirror and ask themselves how this could happen.
You didn't count my absentee ballot.
Somehow you voted for Pat Buchanan (ha! 2000 election joke!).
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 2 Vote - (The Real) Round 3

Post by Heston »

I love Stupid Girl, just not as much as TDK.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 2 Vote - (The Real) Round 3

Post by AudioAmmunition »

Mimi wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 7:39am
AudioAmmunition wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 5:20am
Did we have a winner here, I was going to vote for Garbage but didn't bother as I thought it may ultimately be disqualified on the basis of it being Side 3 Track 2 (technically Side 1 of disc 2) under DMs rules. I know this as I was going to nominate it myself but when I got round to looking at it has missed the chance on Side 1.
I was going by the cd, which I assumed was the only version. It's track 8 on the self-titled first album.
So was I originally and was going to nominate until I checked on the vinyl releases and saw it on side 3. Didn't vote on those grounds thinking it would be disqualified or we'd have another Paranoid. Shame, or it would have won.

Olaf
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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 2 Vote - (The Real) Round 3

Post by Olaf »

Anyone ever bothered to check "They Don't Know"? Can't find any vinyl/cassette version where it's track 2. That's either "Bobby's Girl" or "Long Live Love."

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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 2 Vote - (The Real) Round 3

Post by AudioAmmunition »

Olaf wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 4:16pm
Anyone ever bothered to check "They Don't Know"? Can't find any vinyl/cassette version where it's track 2. That's either "Bobby's Girl" or "Long Live Love."
This could get interesting!

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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 2 Vote - (The Real) Round 3

Post by 101Walterton »

Marky Dread wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 8:56am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 8:55am
Marky Dread wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 8:50am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 8:46am
Marky Dread wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 8:25am


In the context of the album I don't see it making a jot of difference to what appears to me to be a very disjointed album already. Either song would fit. It's surely a case of which song wins in a the breaker. As it currently stands as a draw I thought you had final sway?
My goal from the start was to have minimal input beyond the initial guidelines. The results are supposed to come down to the rest of you. That's why I'm looking for arguments one way or another. Seems silly to me that it would come down to what I like.
Yes but it's tied at 9/9. So the people have already spoken via their votes. If you are going to be swayed by someone giving you a strong argument for inclusion then why bother voting?
Because the voting stage normally precludes this—there's normally one that achieves over 50%. This is just a way of still picking a winner without it being my preference, as if I voted.
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