The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 3 Nominations

Flex
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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 3 Nominations

Post by Flex »

101Walterton wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 7:22pm
Because TDK was wrongly pulled. It won, it should never have been disqualified and rightly proven so, when ‘reinstated’ should be reinstated as the winner.
Simple.
But it's got a whole new batch of competition; there's no guarantee board consensus is going to be that TDK is better than the batch of songs its properly supposed to be facing. Context of surrounding competition is extremely important in this exercise, as Doc pointed out in his original verdict in favor of the song.
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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 3 Nominations

Post by Dr. Medulla »

101Walterton wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 7:22pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 6:40pm
101Walterton wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 6:31pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 6:10pm
101Walterton wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 5:59pm


So this list is still wrong TDK was not ineligible and was a rightful winner.
How so?
You just said it was changed because TDK was entered in error (implying TDK was winner) If it wasn’t ‘disqualified’ it should be changed back.
TDK was the winner. I decided that the better case was put forward for it over SG. Then I started this nomination thread. Then after that Olaf blew the lid off the Scandal of the Millennium, so TDK got pulled, leaving SG the winner. No way no how is TDK eligible for S2T2.
Because TDK was wrongly pulled. It won, it should never have been disqualified and rightly proven so, when ‘reinstated’ should be reinstated as the winner.
Simple.
I think I understand your argument, but I don't buy the idea that once you win it immunizes against later-discovered fraud (however unintentional). I don't believe in compounding an error by letting a song that was never S2T2 represent the S2T2 slot just because the error was discovered after the final vote. We can fuck up once—letting it go to a vote—or we can fuck up twice—letting it go to a vote and letting it stand even knowing it doesn't meet the criteria. Fucking up once is better than twice.

But if it wins against the competition this time around, sure, that's legit. But it has to beat a proper set of competitors—actual S2T3 songs.

edit: Basically what Flex said.
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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 3 Nominations

Post by revbob »

Just declare Paranoid the winner and lets move on.

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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 3 Nominations

Post by Dr. Medulla »

revbob wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 7:33pm
Just declare Paranoid the winner and lets move on.
The real poll has to be "Paranoid" vs. "They Don't Know."
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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 3 Nominations

Post by revbob »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 7:41pm
revbob wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 7:33pm
Just declare Paranoid the winner and lets move on.
The real poll has to be "Paranoid" vs. "They Don't Know."
Im afraid I might hating too many people :shifty:

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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 3 Nominations

Post by Dr. Medulla »

revbob wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 7:54pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 7:41pm
revbob wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 7:33pm
Just declare Paranoid the winner and lets move on.
The real poll has to be "Paranoid" vs. "They Don't Know."
Im afraid I might hating too many people :shifty:
It'd be a poser for me, attracting competing aspects of my mind and body.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 3 Nominations

Post by 101Walterton »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 7:32pm
101Walterton wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 7:22pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 6:40pm
101Walterton wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 6:31pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 6:10pm


How so?
You just said it was changed because TDK was entered in error (implying TDK was winner) If it wasn’t ‘disqualified’ it should be changed back.
TDK was the winner. I decided that the better case was put forward for it over SG. Then I started this nomination thread. Then after that Olaf blew the lid off the Scandal of the Millennium, so TDK got pulled, leaving SG the winner. No way no how is TDK eligible for S2T2.
Because TDK was wrongly pulled. It won, it should never have been disqualified and rightly proven so, when ‘reinstated’ should be reinstated as the winner.
Simple.
I think I understand your argument, but I don't buy the idea that once you win it immunizes against later-discovered fraud (however unintentional). I don't believe in compounding an error by letting a song that was never S2T2 represent the S2T2 slot just because the error was discovered after the final vote. We can fuck up once—letting it go to a vote—or we can fuck up twice—letting it go to a vote and letting it stand even knowing it doesn't meet the criteria. Fucking up once is better than twice.

But if it wins against the competition this time around, sure, that's legit. But it has to beat a proper set of competitors—actual S2T3 songs.

edit: Basically what Flex said.
I think I am missing something????
So Hussein Bolt wins a race and collects Olympic gold.
Someone accuses him of being a drug chest so he is stripped of his medal which goes to the guy who came second.
Subsequent investigation proves Bolt was never guilty of using drugs and the allegation was false.
The only action that would follow would be that Bolt would correctly be reinstated as the Olympic champion and get his gold medal back.

Why is that different to this? You aren’t going to say sorry Hussein you were right all along about being innocent and we have declared you innocent but the other guy keeps the medal

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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 3 Nominations

Post by revbob »

101Walterton wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 9:03pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 7:32pm
101Walterton wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 7:22pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 6:40pm
101Walterton wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 6:31pm


You just said it was changed because TDK was entered in error (implying TDK was winner) If it wasn’t ‘disqualified’ it should be changed back.
TDK was the winner. I decided that the better case was put forward for it over SG. Then I started this nomination thread. Then after that Olaf blew the lid off the Scandal of the Millennium, so TDK got pulled, leaving SG the winner. No way no how is TDK eligible for S2T2.
Because TDK was wrongly pulled. It won, it should never have been disqualified and rightly proven so, when ‘reinstated’ should be reinstated as the winner.
Simple.
I think I understand your argument, but I don't buy the idea that once you win it immunizes against later-discovered fraud (however unintentional). I don't believe in compounding an error by letting a song that was never S2T2 represent the S2T2 slot just because the error was discovered after the final vote. We can fuck up once—letting it go to a vote—or we can fuck up twice—letting it go to a vote and letting it stand even knowing it doesn't meet the criteria. Fucking up once is better than twice.

But if it wins against the competition this time around, sure, that's legit. But it has to beat a proper set of competitors—actual S2T3 songs.

edit: Basically what Flex said.
I think I am missing something????
So Hussein Bolt wins a race and collects Olympic gold.
Someone accuses him of being a drug chest so he is stripped of his medal which goes to the guy who came second.

...
So just to be clear you would be in favor of this sort of ruling or should the race be run again with all new runners except the one that came in 2nd place?

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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 3 Nominations

Post by Dr. Medulla »

101Walterton wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 9:03pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 7:32pm
101Walterton wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 7:22pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 6:40pm
101Walterton wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 6:31pm


You just said it was changed because TDK was entered in error (implying TDK was winner) If it wasn’t ‘disqualified’ it should be changed back.
TDK was the winner. I decided that the better case was put forward for it over SG. Then I started this nomination thread. Then after that Olaf blew the lid off the Scandal of the Millennium, so TDK got pulled, leaving SG the winner. No way no how is TDK eligible for S2T2.
Because TDK was wrongly pulled. It won, it should never have been disqualified and rightly proven so, when ‘reinstated’ should be reinstated as the winner.
Simple.
I think I understand your argument, but I don't buy the idea that once you win it immunizes against later-discovered fraud (however unintentional). I don't believe in compounding an error by letting a song that was never S2T2 represent the S2T2 slot just because the error was discovered after the final vote. We can fuck up once—letting it go to a vote—or we can fuck up twice—letting it go to a vote and letting it stand even knowing it doesn't meet the criteria. Fucking up once is better than twice.

But if it wins against the competition this time around, sure, that's legit. But it has to beat a proper set of competitors—actual S2T3 songs.

edit: Basically what Flex said.
I think I am missing something????
So Hussein Bolt wins a race and collects Olympic gold.
Someone accuses him of being a drug chest so he is stripped of his medal which goes to the guy who came second.
Subsequent investigation proves Bolt was never guilty of using drugs and the allegation was false.
The only action that would follow would be that Bolt would correctly be reinstated as the Olympic champion and get his gold medal back.

Why is that different to this? You aren’t going to say sorry Hussein you were right all along about being innocent and we have declared you innocent but the other guy keeps the medal
If you can find evidence that TDK was ever released as S2T2, then, yes, it will be reinstated and re-declared the winner. That's the standard. You have to prove that it is eligible to be in the vote for S2T2. But I clicked on every link at discogs for her album in the lp and cassette versions, and not one showed it ever being in the S2T2 position. It was usually S2T3 or in a few cases S1T2. So it is still eligible for S2T3, and Heston's nominated it there. If it wins there, it wins. But the available evidence says it was never properly eligible to be considered for S2T2. So the onus is on you, I suppose, to prove that the retroactive disqualification was incorrect, which means finding a release that has TDK as S2T2 (CD track 8 doesn't count because there are vinyl and cassette editions that take precedence).
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 3 Nominations

Post by daredevil »

Selector - Cool Blue Lady

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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 3 Nominations

Post by daredevil »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 9:12pm
101Walterton wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 9:03pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 7:32pm
101Walterton wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 7:22pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 6:40pm


TDK was the winner. I decided that the better case was put forward for it over SG. Then I started this nomination thread. Then after that Olaf blew the lid off the Scandal of the Millennium, so TDK got pulled, leaving SG the winner. No way no how is TDK eligible for S2T2.
Because TDK was wrongly pulled. It won, it should never have been disqualified and rightly proven so, when ‘reinstated’ should be reinstated as the winner.
Simple.
I think I understand your argument, but I don't buy the idea that once you win it immunizes against later-discovered fraud (however unintentional). I don't believe in compounding an error by letting a song that was never S2T2 represent the S2T2 slot just because the error was discovered after the final vote. We can fuck up once—letting it go to a vote—or we can fuck up twice—letting it go to a vote and letting it stand even knowing it doesn't meet the criteria. Fucking up once is better than twice.

But if it wins against the competition this time around, sure, that's legit. But it has to beat a proper set of competitors—actual S2T3 songs.

edit: Basically what Flex said.
I think I am missing something????
So Hussein Bolt wins a race and collects Olympic gold.
Someone accuses him of being a drug chest so he is stripped of his medal which goes to the guy who came second.
Subsequent investigation proves Bolt was never guilty of using drugs and the allegation was false.
The only action that would follow would be that Bolt would correctly be reinstated as the Olympic champion and get his gold medal back.

Why is that different to this? You aren’t going to say sorry Hussein you were right all along about being innocent and we have declared you innocent but the other guy keeps the medal
If you can find evidence that TDK was ever released as S2T2, then, yes, it will be reinstated and re-declared the winner. That's the standard. You have to prove that it is eligible to be in the vote for S2T2. But I clicked on every link at discogs for her album in the lp and cassette versions, and not one showed it ever being in the S2T2 position. It was usually S2T3 or in a few cases S1T2. So it is still eligible for S2T3, and Heston's nominated it there. If it wins there, it wins. But the available evidence says it was never properly eligible to be considered for S2T2. So the onus is on you, I suppose, to prove that the retroactive disqualification was incorrect, which means finding a release that has TDK as S2T2 (CD track 8 doesn't count because there are vinyl and cassette editions that take precedence).
Unless my memory is failing me....I thought TDK was the second song on side 2 on the LP?

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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 3 Nominations

Post by 101Walterton »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 9:12pm
101Walterton wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 9:03pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 7:32pm
101Walterton wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 7:22pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 6:40pm


TDK was the winner. I decided that the better case was put forward for it over SG. Then I started this nomination thread. Then after that Olaf blew the lid off the Scandal of the Millennium, so TDK got pulled, leaving SG the winner. No way no how is TDK eligible for S2T2.
Because TDK was wrongly pulled. It won, it should never have been disqualified and rightly proven so, when ‘reinstated’ should be reinstated as the winner.
Simple.
I think I understand your argument, but I don't buy the idea that once you win it immunizes against later-discovered fraud (however unintentional). I don't believe in compounding an error by letting a song that was never S2T2 represent the S2T2 slot just because the error was discovered after the final vote. We can fuck up once—letting it go to a vote—or we can fuck up twice—letting it go to a vote and letting it stand even knowing it doesn't meet the criteria. Fucking up once is better than twice.

But if it wins against the competition this time around, sure, that's legit. But it has to beat a proper set of competitors—actual S2T3 songs.

edit: Basically what Flex said.
I think I am missing something????
So Hussein Bolt wins a race and collects Olympic gold.
Someone accuses him of being a drug chest so he is stripped of his medal which goes to the guy who came second.
Subsequent investigation proves Bolt was never guilty of using drugs and the allegation was false.
The only action that would follow would be that Bolt would correctly be reinstated as the Olympic champion and get his gold medal back.

Why is that different to this? You aren’t going to say sorry Hussein you were right all along about being innocent and we have declared you innocent but the other guy keeps the medal
If you can find evidence that TDK was ever released as S2T2, then, yes, it will be reinstated and re-declared the winner. That's the standard. You have to prove that it is eligible to be in the vote for S2T2. But I clicked on every link at discogs for her album in the lp and cassette versions, and not one showed it ever being in the S2T2 position. It was usually S2T3 or in a few cases S1T2. So it is still eligible for S2T3, and Heston's nominated it there. If it wins there, it wins. But the available evidence says it was never properly eligible to be considered for S2T2. So the onus is on you, I suppose, to prove that the retroactive disqualification was incorrect, which means finding a release that has TDK as S2T2 (CD track 8 doesn't count because there are vinyl and cassette editions that take precedence).
I posted the original CD release track listing earlier, Track 8!!!

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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 3 Nominations

Post by 101Walterton »

revbob wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 9:09pm
101Walterton wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 9:03pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 7:32pm
101Walterton wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 7:22pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 6:40pm


TDK was the winner. I decided that the better case was put forward for it over SG. Then I started this nomination thread. Then after that Olaf blew the lid off the Scandal of the Millennium, so TDK got pulled, leaving SG the winner. No way no how is TDK eligible for S2T2.
Because TDK was wrongly pulled. It won, it should never have been disqualified and rightly proven so, when ‘reinstated’ should be reinstated as the winner.
Simple.
I think I understand your argument, but I don't buy the idea that once you win it immunizes against later-discovered fraud (however unintentional). I don't believe in compounding an error by letting a song that was never S2T2 represent the S2T2 slot just because the error was discovered after the final vote. We can fuck up once—letting it go to a vote—or we can fuck up twice—letting it go to a vote and letting it stand even knowing it doesn't meet the criteria. Fucking up once is better than twice.

But if it wins against the competition this time around, sure, that's legit. But it has to beat a proper set of competitors—actual S2T3 songs.

edit: Basically what Flex said.
I think I am missing something????
So Hussein Bolt wins a race and collects Olympic gold.
Someone accuses him of being a drug chest so he is stripped of his medal which goes to the guy who came second.

...
So just to be clear you would be in favor of this sort of ruling or should the race be run again with all new runners except the one that came in 2nd place?
Of course I am in favour of what would happen in real life as above.

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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 3 Nominations

Post by Dr. Medulla »

daredevil wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 10:21pm
Unless my memory is failing me....I thought TDK was the second song on side 2 on the LP?
Not that I could find on discogs. Most commonly it's side 2, track 3, but in a few cases side 1, track 2.
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Re: The Ultimate Women's Album - Side 2 Track 3 Nominations

Post by Dr. Medulla »

101Walterton wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 11:08pm
I posted the original CD release track listing earlier, Track 8!!!
Doesn't matter.
7b. Vinyl or cassette track listings are the standard sources. If there is no vinyl or cassette version, “side two” will consider tracks 7–12 on the cd version.
There are vinyl or cassette versions, hence the cd track listing is irrelevant.
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