Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School

[Dr. Medulla]

Dammit, another AI-generated piece. A student with very hesitant English and never takes notes turned in a technically proficient review that still says very little. I'm less angry than just sad.

Switch to math.

I needed that.

[JennyB]

Doc - I am interested in your opinion on this, especially coming from the humanities perspective. A lot of replies from people in STEM fields arguing that allowing cheaters to move forward puts people in danger:

[Dr. Medulla]

Doc - I am interested in your opinion on this, especially coming from the humanities perspective. A lot of replies from people in STEM fields arguing that allowing cheaters to move forward puts people in danger:

I've used that exact phrase with students—I'm not there to be a cop. And I hate being put in that situation. But that's where we are now, with greater temptation and tools to cheat, which is to say to avoid learning. I am, fundamentally, a moralist, and it is immoral to gain credit for a course (and eventual degree) without trying to learn the material and techniques. But given the costs of obtaining a degree and its value for employment and generating income, the higher education system incentivizes cheating. It's commercial activity, not a higher calling when you get down to it. So, yeah, I've been pushed towards a space where I have to start with some suspicion towards students. I counter that as best I can by teaching in a way that the common means of cheating won't work, including trying to role model behaviour. Luckily, the people who cheat tend to be really bad and obvious about it—because they're lazy in the first place—but it's still sad.

I don't know if that really answers your question, but I lean toward those STEM people, tho more from a perspective of morality. (I really should have been a Catholic.)

[JennyB]

Doc - I am interested in your opinion on this, especially coming from the humanities perspective. A lot of replies from people in STEM fields arguing that allowing cheaters to move forward puts people in danger:

I've used that exact phrase with students—I'm not there to be a cop. And I hate being put in that situation. But that's where we are now, with greater temptation and tools to cheat, which is to say to avoid learning. I am, fundamentally, a moralist, and it is immoral to gain credit for a course (and eventual degree) without trying to learn the material and techniques. But given the costs of obtaining a degree and its value for employment and generating income, the higher education system incentivizes cheating. It's commercial activity, not a higher calling when you get down to it. So, yeah, I've been pushed towards a space where I have to start with some suspicion towards students. I counter that as best I can by teaching in a way that the common means of cheating won't work, including trying to role model behaviour. Luckily, the people who cheat tend to be really bad and obvious about it—because they're lazy in the first place—but it's still sad.

I don't know if that really answers your question, but I lean toward those STEM people, tho more from a perspective of morality. (I really should have been a Catholic.)

Thank you. I think that's an entirely reasonable answer. I immediately thought of you when I saw that tweet because I know the LAST thing you'd want to be is a cop. But there has to be some nuance.

[Dr. Medulla]

Doc - I am interested in your opinion on this, especially coming from the humanities perspective. A lot of replies from people in STEM fields arguing that allowing cheaters to move forward puts people in danger:

I've used that exact phrase with students—I'm not there to be a cop. And I hate being put in that situation. But that's where we are now, with greater temptation and tools to cheat, which is to say to avoid learning. I am, fundamentally, a moralist, and it is immoral to gain credit for a course (and eventual degree) without trying to learn the material and techniques. But given the costs of obtaining a degree and its value for employment and generating income, the higher education system incentivizes cheating. It's commercial activity, not a higher calling when you get down to it. So, yeah, I've been pushed towards a space where I have to start with some suspicion towards students. I counter that as best I can by teaching in a way that the common means of cheating won't work, including trying to role model behaviour. Luckily, the people who cheat tend to be really bad and obvious about it—because they're lazy in the first place—but it's still sad.

I don't know if that really answers your question, but I lean toward those STEM people, tho more from a perspective of morality. (I really should have been a Catholic.)

Thank you. I think that's an entirely reasonable answer. I immediately thought of you when I saw that tweet because I know the LAST thing you'd want to be is a cop. But there has to be some nuance.

When I've had "the talk" with students about this stuff, I've made clear how much I hate how this shit comes between us. I want to trust them, just as I want them to trust me and work to earn their trust (it's also required so that we might have conversations about important but sensitive issues). We're all there voluntarily and I make every effort so that they feel our shared time was worthwhile to them. As cynical and snarky as I am in so many ways, I'm boy-scout earnest about that. Like, I've apologized to my class when I've felt the lecture didn't work. If I'm accountable, I want them to hold themselves accountable. That's also about me trying to bring a punk approach to the classroom—breaking down hierarchies, being accountable to self and group.

[gkbill]

Doc - I am interested in your opinion on this, especially coming from the humanities perspective. A lot of replies from people in STEM fields arguing that allowing cheaters to move forward puts people in danger:

I've used that exact phrase with students—I'm not there to be a cop. And I hate being put in that situation. But that's where we are now, with greater temptation and tools to cheat, which is to say to avoid learning. I am, fundamentally, a moralist, and it is immoral to gain credit for a course (and eventual degree) without trying to learn the material and techniques. But given the costs of obtaining a degree and its value for employment and generating income, the higher education system incentivizes cheating. It's commercial activity, not a higher calling when you get down to it. So, yeah, I've been pushed towards a space where I have to start with some suspicion towards students. I counter that as best I can by teaching in a way that the common means of cheating won't work, including trying to role model behaviour. Luckily, the people who cheat tend to be really bad and obvious about it—because they're lazy in the first place—but it's still sad.

I don't know if that really answers your question, but I lean toward those STEM people, tho more from a perspective of morality. (I really should have been a Catholic.)

Thank you. I think that's an entirely reasonable answer. I immediately thought of you when I saw that tweet because I know the LAST thing you'd want to be is a cop. But there has to be some nuance.

When I've had "the talk" with students about this stuff, I've made clear how much I hate how this shit comes between us. I want to trust them, just as I want them to trust me and work to earn their trust (it's also required so that we might have conversations about important but sensitive issues). We're all there voluntarily and I make every effort so that they feel our shared time was worthwhile to them. As cynical and snarky as I am in so many ways, I'm boy-scout earnest about that. Like, I've apologized to my class when I've felt the lecture didn't work. If I'm accountable, I want them to hold themselves accountable. That's also about me trying to bring a punk approach to the classroom—breaking down hierarchies, being accountable to self and group.

Hello,

When we went online completely, several colleagues were very concerned with exams being remote - and still are even though we're in-person now. When I compare my test scores from pre-pandemic (hard copies handwritten) to post pandemic (I've kept exams online although students must bring a laptop and take the exam in the classroom), the scores are very similar.

If a student is cheating, they are being dishonest. Cheating is a behavior - honesty is a value (being honest is a behavior, I guess). I'm more concerned with values as I believe values dictate behaviors.

One of the questions I have about teaching is do we teach honesty? Do we teach respect for others? I hope I model these although I'd hate to teach them - but I guess I teach them by modeling them. Students are largely still malleable at the undergrad level. I'd like to think I demonstrate my values as I teach and students absorb/adopt them.

Regarding the degree completed for transactional purposes (just to get a job), I'm not happy with that - but I've come to realize even if they are attending to eventually get a better job, they are still getting educated - and they're better for it. I'd rather teach students who are intrinsically motivated but if they are extrinsically motivated, I'll still work with them (although I hope their motivation shifts towards intrinsic). Students can have both motivations - I love to learn and I want a good job.

This seems a bit rambling - sorry about that, Chief (who else remembers that line?).

[Dr. Medulla]

Role modelling is so damned important. It was an attitude I came with into the game already, but it was reinforced in positive and negative ways so obviously. When you look at student complaints about professors, so many look like professor complaints about students—poor communication, in class and out; disorganized; unclear instructions and feedback; and not caring about their students' success. And, yeah, those descriptions fit the bill for so many professors, who talking almost venomously about students behind their back. I know that my approach doesn't win over everyone—some students really do desire a "just tell me what I need to know" approach—but I don't want to give people any legitimate reason to think I don't give a damn. Model enthusiasm for the work as well as accountability and respect, hopefully that works to inspire the same, right?

[weller259]

Me personally I would use AI to see if the report/essay/whatever in question was created by AI and see what it says. lol.

I think it can't be easy to be a college professor because while a professor can be excellent, caring, generous with time, etc., ultimately isn't it on the students to put the effort in, pay attention, read the materials, and actually LEARN? I think the internet age is ruining things for the evovlution of our species, people think because they have google they are smarter than they really are and that in turn curbs real learning. But what do I know? In my youth, in order to learn I had to find then read books and stuff. To learn, I first had to make the effort.

[Dr. Medulla]

Me personally I would use AI to see if the report/essay/whatever in question was created by AI and see what it says. lol.

There are a couple websites that I've used to confirm my suspicions of AI-generated work, so, yeah!

I think it can't be easy to be a college professor because while a professor can be excellent, caring, generous with time, etc., ultimately isn't it on the students to put the effort in, pay attention, read the materials, and actually LEARN? I think the internet age is ruining things for the evovlution of our species, people think because they have google they are smarter than they really are and that in turn curbs real learning. But what do I know? In my youth, in order to learn I had to find then read books and stuff. To learn, I first had to make the effort.

And, to be fair, most students do try and they do want to learn. It's easy to lose focus and concentrate on the cheaters, concluding they represent the majority. They may not be as critical minded us we'd like, but most are quite sincere.

[gkbill]

Me personally I would use AI to see if the report/essay/whatever in question was created by AI and see what it says. lol.

There are a couple websites that I've used to confirm my suspicions of AI-generated work, so, yeah!

I think it can't be easy to be a college professor because while a professor can be excellent, caring, generous with time, etc., ultimately isn't it on the students to put the effort in, pay attention, read the materials, and actually LEARN? I think the internet age is ruining things for the evovlution of our species, people think because they have google they are smarter than they really are and that in turn curbs real learning. But what do I know? In my youth, in order to learn I had to find then read books and stuff. To learn, I first had to make the effort.

And, to be fair, most students do try and they do want to learn. It's easy to lose focus and concentrate on the cheaters, concluding they represent the majority. They may not be as critical minded us we'd like, but most are quite sincere.

Hello,

I wouldn't blame the internet - it can be a great tool. As weller 259 states, it's up to the student. The student's motivation is largely dependent on the parents. Parents who don't really care if their child learns as long as they get an A are the ultimate source of this problem. Make sure the child learns how to learn - read, think, repeat. So many kids try to get by without thinking. Parents think it's a chore to teach their child to think. They are correct: it is a chore but it's got to be done.

[Dr. Medulla]

Me personally I would use AI to see if the report/essay/whatever in question was created by AI and see what it says. lol.

There are a couple websites that I've used to confirm my suspicions of AI-generated work, so, yeah!

I think it can't be easy to be a college professor because while a professor can be excellent, caring, generous with time, etc., ultimately isn't it on the students to put the effort in, pay attention, read the materials, and actually LEARN? I think the internet age is ruining things for the evovlution of our species, people think because they have google they are smarter than they really are and that in turn curbs real learning. But what do I know? In my youth, in order to learn I had to find then read books and stuff. To learn, I first had to make the effort.

And, to be fair, most students do try and they do want to learn. It's easy to lose focus and concentrate on the cheaters, concluding they represent the majority. They may not be as critical minded us we'd like, but most are quite sincere.

Hello,

I wouldn't blame the internet - it can be a great tool. As weller 259 states, it's up to the student. The student's motivation is largely dependent on the parents. Parents who don't really care if their child learns as long as they get an A are the ultimate source of this problem. Make sure the child learns how to learn - read, think, repeat. So many kids try to get by without thinking. Parents think it's a chore to teach their child to think. They are correct: it is a chore but it's got to be done.

The cost of a university education spurs the notion that students are purchasing accreditation so that they can get a job. Universities have encouraged this thinking—internal documents will sometimes refer to students as clients—so education isn't about the old-fashioned "learning is its own reward" but a practical thing (what will I get at the end?). I've long maintained—going back to when I was a student—that education is something obtained in spite of the university, not because of it.

[Flex]

[gkbill]

Hello,

[Dr. Medulla]

Not my story, but The Boss'. In one of her current classes, she has a young woman who is, seemingly, on the spectrum, as they say. She's really friendly, but in a way that blows thru all normal social conventions. Next to no filter. So, today, while talking about geographical place names and how indigenous people have worked to change names they consider offensive, one example was places that use the word "squaw." This woman just blurts out, not understanding the word's meaning, "Is it like cunt?" The room goes the kind of silent where everyone knows what they all heard but no one wants to acknowledge it. The woman, figuring it out, says, "Oh, right, time and place." Then a few seconds later, "But I can say cunt because I'm a woman, right?" The Boss said that this probably isn't the right context for that kind of discussion and tries to untip the canoe. To be clear, tho, The Boss loves this person because she's so unambiguously dorky and sincere, no malice whatsoever to her—those social rules just completely elude her.

[revbob]

Not my story, but The Boss'. In one of her current classes, she has a young woman who is, seemingly, on the spectrum, as they say. She's really friendly, but in a way that blows thru all normal social conventions. Next to no filter. So, today, while talking about geographical place names and how indigenous people have worked to change names they consider offensive, one example was places that use the word "squaw." This woman just blurts out, not understanding the word's meaning, "Is it like cunt?" The room goes the kind of silent where everyone knows what they all heard but no one wants to acknowledge it. The woman, figuring it out, says, "Oh, right, time and place." Then a few seconds later, "But I can say cunt because I'm a woman, right?" The Boss said that this probably isn't the right context for that kind of discussion and tries to untip the canoe. To be clear, tho, The Boss loves this person because she's so unambiguously dorky and sincere, no malice whatsoever to her—those social rules just completely elude her.

I love it