I didnt/dont not like him.
IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)
Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)
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Low Down Low
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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)
Very good theory, a lot there I would readily concur with. One phenomenon I would add, not recent but very much in recent evidence, is the manner in which people who are genuinely on the left, ie Sanders, Corbyn, AOC etc, are often portrayed as being "hard" or "far" left, as if they are dangerous extremists, and not exclusively by those on the opposite side of the spectrum, but also those of a liberal/centrist/moderate bent who seem to me to be more than happy to collude in this process as it then opens up a space just left of centre they can freely occupy. I know you say liberal and right don't often play better together, but deep down I think a lot of these people are closer to the right than they would care to admit, certainly on economic issues anyway.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 12:12pmMy pet theory is that it's a reflection of how much our politics has been driven by cultural questions, rather than economic. The shift in the left more broadly since the 60s has gone from a fight over labour issues—neoliberalism won that handily by the 90s—to one of personal liberation. Treat me and my choices and identity with respect. Not that that is wrong, of course, only that it's a shift from common cause over labour to one of diversity and the happiness of the individual. And the right has responded to that challenge, hostile to genuine pluralism. But those cultural and identity questions of diversity play well with liberalism (at the centre). It doesn't confound neoliberal economic questions because, in fact, it plays quite well with making us all commodities and markets. So if politics is mostly driven by cultural questions (because the economic stuff has been so stifled for decades), liberal and left often play together better than liberal and right. Now, as neoliberalism's hold is breaking up, and economic questions return, the divisions between left and liberal should be more apparent. Anyway, a pet theory.Low Down Low wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 11:52amIt is a source of endless wonder to me how many supposedly politically alert people seem unable to grasp that very basic truth.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 11:14amEven tho that discussion is only a couple years old, I have zero recollection, even in re-reading what I contributed, of it. I would reiterate one thing I said: it shows that liberal is not the same thing as left.Silent Majority wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 10:29amI was pretty clear eyed in there, good arguing.matedog wrote: ↑11 Jan 2022, 1:18pmMaj and muppet argue whether Keith Richards sucks:
https://clashcity.com/boards/viewtopic. ... 86#p491086
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)
Liberals and the right definitely are mostly in sync on economic issues—the great victory of Thatcher/Reagan/Mulroney was getting Blair/Clinton/Chretien to sign on to neoliberalism and be the real agent against labour. The reason we don't notice this is because of that burying of economic questions in favour of cultural issues. The right should have been pleased as fuck in the 90s that it had convinced liberals to turn away from welfare state policies, yet its obsession with cultural matters has convinced succeeding waves of rightists that liberals are crazed ultra lefists. It's batshit to think that, to use a Canadian example, that Justin Trudeau is further to the left than Tommy Douglas, yet we regularly hear that Trudeau is some loco leftist.Low Down Low wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 1:07pmVery good theory, a lot there I would readily concur with. One phenomenon I would add, not recent but very much in recent evidence, is the manner in which people who are genuinely on the left, ie Sanders, Corbyn, AOC etc, are often portrayed as being "hard" or "far" left, as if they are dangerous extremists, and not exclusively by those on the opposite side of the spectrum, but also those of a liberal/centrist/moderate bent who seem to me to be more than happy to collude in this process as it then opens up a space just left of centre they can freely occupy. I know you say liberal and right don't often play better together, but deep down I think a lot of these people are closer to the right than they would care to admit, certainly on economic issues anyway.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 12:12pmMy pet theory is that it's a reflection of how much our politics has been driven by cultural questions, rather than economic. The shift in the left more broadly since the 60s has gone from a fight over labour issues—neoliberalism won that handily by the 90s—to one of personal liberation. Treat me and my choices and identity with respect. Not that that is wrong, of course, only that it's a shift from common cause over labour to one of diversity and the happiness of the individual. And the right has responded to that challenge, hostile to genuine pluralism. But those cultural and identity questions of diversity play well with liberalism (at the centre). It doesn't confound neoliberal economic questions because, in fact, it plays quite well with making us all commodities and markets. So if politics is mostly driven by cultural questions (because the economic stuff has been so stifled for decades), liberal and left often play together better than liberal and right. Now, as neoliberalism's hold is breaking up, and economic questions return, the divisions between left and liberal should be more apparent. Anyway, a pet theory.Low Down Low wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 11:52amIt is a source of endless wonder to me how many supposedly politically alert people seem unable to grasp that very basic truth.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 11:14amEven tho that discussion is only a couple years old, I have zero recollection, even in re-reading what I contributed, of it. I would reiterate one thing I said: it shows that liberal is not the same thing as left.
"Ain't no party like an S Club party!'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)
He all but got the vapours when I said that I hated "Waiting on a Friend." No no, every Stones song is a classic.revbob wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 1:03pmAnd he had that wild notion that Johnny Thunders was gonna play with the Stones as a 2nd guitar player or something .Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 12:48pmMaybe there isn't an official Rolling Stone guide to Sabbath to let him know whether it's acceptable.revbob wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 12:29pmMuppet was an odd one (as we all are). He and I did a challenge once because he was always talking shit about Sabbath. Anyway I gave him X many songs. He wondered why I didnt include Paranoid and Iron Man. I said because everyone knows those 2, so not much of a challenge. Anyway he never got around to doing the track review.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 12:15pmI still have him on Ignore, should he ever return. His fealty to rock's canon, that we should never criticize the gods, drove me nuts. I remember him saying he couldn't participate in one of our Survivor-style games because the idea of arguing against great songs was too horrible to consider. Can't fathom that kind of subservience to art or artist.coffeepotman wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 12:05pm
Muppett flamed me about something stupid in the Kiss thread, I was like dude take it easy, whatever, you win, happy now
http://www.clashcity.com/boards/viewtop ... &start=390
"Ain't no party like an S Club party!'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)
I didn't dislike him, but that aspect was frustrating. I remember him trying to get Maj into Bruce by having him listen to his High Hopes outtakes EP. Like, High Hopes is a rough enough sell, let alone the outtakes. If you are going to try to sell someone on Bruce, that's not what you do it with!Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 12:15pmI still have him on Ignore, should he ever return. His fealty to rock's canon, that we should never criticize the gods, drove me nuts. I remember him saying he couldn't participate in one of our Survivor-style games because the idea of arguing against great songs was too horrible to consider. Can't fathom that kind of subservience to art or artist.coffeepotman wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 12:05pmMuppett flamed me about something stupid in the Kiss thread, I was like dude take it easy, whatever, you win, happy nowDr. Medulla wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 11:14amEven tho that discussion is only a couple years old, I have zero recollection, even in re-reading what I contributed, of it. I would reiterate one thing I said: it shows that liberal is not the same thing as left.Silent Majority wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 10:29amI was pretty clear eyed in there, good arguing.matedog wrote: ↑11 Jan 2022, 1:18pmMaj and muppet argue whether Keith Richards sucks:
https://clashcity.com/boards/viewtopic. ... 86#p491086
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)
Rereading the thread, I missed your bit about Bruce's donation in 85 to the miners. I was totally unaware of that and found some good articles on it. Not your point, but thanks for the heads up on that.Silent Majority wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 10:29amI was pretty clear eyed in there, good arguing.matedog wrote: ↑11 Jan 2022, 1:18pmMaj and muppet argue whether Keith Richards sucks:
https://clashcity.com/boards/viewtopic. ... 86#p491086
I'll stop posting about Bruce for now, I swear!
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)
matedog wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 1:49pmI didn't dislike him, but that aspect was frustrating. I remember him trying to get Maj into Bruce by having him listen to his High Hopes outtakes EP. Like, High Hopes is a rough enough sell, let alone the outtakes. If you are going to try to sell someone on Bruce, that's not what you do it with!Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 12:15pmI still have him on Ignore, should he ever return. His fealty to rock's canon, that we should never criticize the gods, drove me nuts. I remember him saying he couldn't participate in one of our Survivor-style games because the idea of arguing against great songs was too horrible to consider. Can't fathom that kind of subservience to art or artist.coffeepotman wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 12:05pmMuppett flamed me about something stupid in the Kiss thread, I was like dude take it easy, whatever, you win, happy nowDr. Medulla wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 11:14amEven tho that discussion is only a couple years old, I have zero recollection, even in re-reading what I contributed, of it. I would reiterate one thing I said: it shows that liberal is not the same thing as left.
"Ain't no party like an S Club party!'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)
Exactly.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 2:17pmmatedog wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 1:49pmI didn't dislike him, but that aspect was frustrating. I remember him trying to get Maj into Bruce by having him listen to his High Hopes outtakes EP. Like, High Hopes is a rough enough sell, let alone the outtakes. If you are going to try to sell someone on Bruce, that's not what you do it with!Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 12:15pmI still have him on Ignore, should he ever return. His fealty to rock's canon, that we should never criticize the gods, drove me nuts. I remember him saying he couldn't participate in one of our Survivor-style games because the idea of arguing against great songs was too horrible to consider. Can't fathom that kind of subservience to art or artist.coffeepotman wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 12:05pmMuppett flamed me about something stupid in the Kiss thread, I was like dude take it easy, whatever, you win, happy nowDr. Medulla wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 11:14am
Even tho that discussion is only a couple years old, I have zero recollection, even in re-reading what I contributed, of it. I would reiterate one thing I said: it shows that liberal is not the same thing as left.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)
That like six page heated debate we had regarding The Doors all whilst proclaiming we didn't feel that strongly about the band: https://clashcity.com/boards/viewtopic. ... 16#p343516
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
- Heston
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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)
My "Hello, I Hate You" line received no love.matedog wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 5:11pmThat like six page heated debate we had regarding The Doors all whilst proclaiming we didn't feel that strongly about the band: https://clashcity.com/boards/viewtopic. ... 16#p343516
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board
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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)
It illustrates that I'm a conversation junkie, anyway.matedog wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 5:11pmThat like six page heated debate we had regarding The Doors all whilst proclaiming we didn't feel that strongly about the band: https://clashcity.com/boards/viewtopic. ... 16#p343516
"Ain't no party like an S Club party!'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)
This was the winnerHeston wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 5:18pmMy "Hello, I Hate You" line received no love.matedog wrote: ↑12 Jan 2022, 5:11pmThat like six page heated debate we had regarding The Doors all whilst proclaiming we didn't feel that strongly about the band: https://clashcity.com/boards/viewtopic. ... 16#p343516
Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)
I loved all the survivor polls and strategic voting and insidious double-crossing
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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)
Heston misjudges his audience:
http://www.clashcity.com/boards/viewtop ... 52#p627352
http://www.clashcity.com/boards/viewtop ... 65#p580265
http://www.clashcity.com/boards/viewtop ... 87#p248887
http://www.clashcity.com/boards/viewtop ... 50#p443250
http://www.clashcity.com/boards/viewtop ... 52#p627352
http://www.clashcity.com/boards/viewtop ... 65#p580265
http://www.clashcity.com/boards/viewtop ... 87#p248887
http://www.clashcity.com/boards/viewtop ... 50#p443250
"Ain't no party like an S Club party!'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)
Seconded, the original Clash one was a hell of a lot of fun and on a personal level The Beatles one got me into a fair number of their songs that I foolishly dismissed whilst being completely ignorant to them.