IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)

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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)

Post by revbob »

Silent Majority wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 12:58pm
I liked the guy. Always very nice to me.
I didnt/dont not like him.

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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 12:12pm
Low Down Low wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 11:52am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 11:14am
Silent Majority wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 10:29am
matedog wrote:
11 Jan 2022, 1:18pm
Maj and muppet argue whether Keith Richards sucks:
https://clashcity.com/boards/viewtopic. ... 86#p491086
I was pretty clear eyed in there, good arguing.
Even tho that discussion is only a couple years old, I have zero recollection, even in re-reading what I contributed, of it. I would reiterate one thing I said: it shows that liberal is not the same thing as left.
It is a source of endless wonder to me how many supposedly politically alert people seem unable to grasp that very basic truth.
My pet theory is that it's a reflection of how much our politics has been driven by cultural questions, rather than economic. The shift in the left more broadly since the 60s has gone from a fight over labour issues—neoliberalism won that handily by the 90s—to one of personal liberation. Treat me and my choices and identity with respect. Not that that is wrong, of course, only that it's a shift from common cause over labour to one of diversity and the happiness of the individual. And the right has responded to that challenge, hostile to genuine pluralism. But those cultural and identity questions of diversity play well with liberalism (at the centre). It doesn't confound neoliberal economic questions because, in fact, it plays quite well with making us all commodities and markets. So if politics is mostly driven by cultural questions (because the economic stuff has been so stifled for decades), liberal and left often play together better than liberal and right. Now, as neoliberalism's hold is breaking up, and economic questions return, the divisions between left and liberal should be more apparent. Anyway, a pet theory.
Very good theory, a lot there I would readily concur with. One phenomenon I would add, not recent but very much in recent evidence, is the manner in which people who are genuinely on the left, ie Sanders, Corbyn, AOC etc, are often portrayed as being "hard" or "far" left, as if they are dangerous extremists, and not exclusively by those on the opposite side of the spectrum, but also those of a liberal/centrist/moderate bent who seem to me to be more than happy to collude in this process as it then opens up a space just left of centre they can freely occupy. I know you say liberal and right don't often play better together, but deep down I think a lot of these people are closer to the right than they would care to admit, certainly on economic issues anyway.

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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Low Down Low wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 1:07pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 12:12pm
Low Down Low wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 11:52am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 11:14am
Silent Majority wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 10:29am


I was pretty clear eyed in there, good arguing.
Even tho that discussion is only a couple years old, I have zero recollection, even in re-reading what I contributed, of it. I would reiterate one thing I said: it shows that liberal is not the same thing as left.
It is a source of endless wonder to me how many supposedly politically alert people seem unable to grasp that very basic truth.
My pet theory is that it's a reflection of how much our politics has been driven by cultural questions, rather than economic. The shift in the left more broadly since the 60s has gone from a fight over labour issues—neoliberalism won that handily by the 90s—to one of personal liberation. Treat me and my choices and identity with respect. Not that that is wrong, of course, only that it's a shift from common cause over labour to one of diversity and the happiness of the individual. And the right has responded to that challenge, hostile to genuine pluralism. But those cultural and identity questions of diversity play well with liberalism (at the centre). It doesn't confound neoliberal economic questions because, in fact, it plays quite well with making us all commodities and markets. So if politics is mostly driven by cultural questions (because the economic stuff has been so stifled for decades), liberal and left often play together better than liberal and right. Now, as neoliberalism's hold is breaking up, and economic questions return, the divisions between left and liberal should be more apparent. Anyway, a pet theory.
Very good theory, a lot there I would readily concur with. One phenomenon I would add, not recent but very much in recent evidence, is the manner in which people who are genuinely on the left, ie Sanders, Corbyn, AOC etc, are often portrayed as being "hard" or "far" left, as if they are dangerous extremists, and not exclusively by those on the opposite side of the spectrum, but also those of a liberal/centrist/moderate bent who seem to me to be more than happy to collude in this process as it then opens up a space just left of centre they can freely occupy. I know you say liberal and right don't often play better together, but deep down I think a lot of these people are closer to the right than they would care to admit, certainly on economic issues anyway.
Liberals and the right definitely are mostly in sync on economic issues—the great victory of Thatcher/Reagan/Mulroney was getting Blair/Clinton/Chretien to sign on to neoliberalism and be the real agent against labour. The reason we don't notice this is because of that burying of economic questions in favour of cultural issues. The right should have been pleased as fuck in the 90s that it had convinced liberals to turn away from welfare state policies, yet its obsession with cultural matters has convinced succeeding waves of rightists that liberals are crazed ultra lefists. It's batshit to think that, to use a Canadian example, that Justin Trudeau is further to the left than Tommy Douglas, yet we regularly hear that Trudeau is some loco leftist.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)

Post by Dr. Medulla »

revbob wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 1:03pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 12:48pm
revbob wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 12:29pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 12:15pm
coffeepotman wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 12:05pm


Muppett flamed me about something stupid in the Kiss thread, I was like dude take it easy, whatever, you win, happy now
I still have him on Ignore, should he ever return. His fealty to rock's canon, that we should never criticize the gods, drove me nuts. I remember him saying he couldn't participate in one of our Survivor-style games because the idea of arguing against great songs was too horrible to consider. Can't fathom that kind of subservience to art or artist.
Muppet was an odd one (as we all are). He and I did a challenge once because he was always talking shit about Sabbath. Anyway I gave him X many songs. He wondered why I didnt include Paranoid and Iron Man. I said because everyone knows those 2, so not much of a challenge. Anyway he never got around to doing the track review.

http://www.clashcity.com/boards/viewtop ... &start=390
Maybe there isn't an official Rolling Stone guide to Sabbath to let him know whether it's acceptable.
And he had that wild notion that Johnny Thunders was gonna play with the Stones as a 2nd guitar player or something .
He all but got the vapours when I said that I hated "Waiting on a Friend." No no, every Stones song is a classic. :rolleyes:
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)

Post by matedog »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 12:15pm
coffeepotman wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 12:05pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 11:14am
Silent Majority wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 10:29am
matedog wrote:
11 Jan 2022, 1:18pm
Maj and muppet argue whether Keith Richards sucks:
https://clashcity.com/boards/viewtopic. ... 86#p491086
I was pretty clear eyed in there, good arguing.
Even tho that discussion is only a couple years old, I have zero recollection, even in re-reading what I contributed, of it. I would reiterate one thing I said: it shows that liberal is not the same thing as left.
Muppett flamed me about something stupid in the Kiss thread, I was like dude take it easy, whatever, you win, happy now
I still have him on Ignore, should he ever return. His fealty to rock's canon, that we should never criticize the gods, drove me nuts. I remember him saying he couldn't participate in one of our Survivor-style games because the idea of arguing against great songs was too horrible to consider. Can't fathom that kind of subservience to art or artist.
I didn't dislike him, but that aspect was frustrating. I remember him trying to get Maj into Bruce by having him listen to his High Hopes outtakes EP. Like, High Hopes is a rough enough sell, let alone the outtakes. If you are going to try to sell someone on Bruce, that's not what you do it with!
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)

Post by matedog »

Silent Majority wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 10:29am
matedog wrote:
11 Jan 2022, 1:18pm
Maj and muppet argue whether Keith Richards sucks:
https://clashcity.com/boards/viewtopic. ... 86#p491086
I was pretty clear eyed in there, good arguing.
Rereading the thread, I missed your bit about Bruce's donation in 85 to the miners. I was totally unaware of that and found some good articles on it. Not your point, but thanks for the heads up on that.

I'll stop posting about Bruce for now, I swear!
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)

Post by Dr. Medulla »

matedog wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 1:49pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 12:15pm
coffeepotman wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 12:05pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 11:14am
Silent Majority wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 10:29am


I was pretty clear eyed in there, good arguing.
Even tho that discussion is only a couple years old, I have zero recollection, even in re-reading what I contributed, of it. I would reiterate one thing I said: it shows that liberal is not the same thing as left.
Muppett flamed me about something stupid in the Kiss thread, I was like dude take it easy, whatever, you win, happy now
I still have him on Ignore, should he ever return. His fealty to rock's canon, that we should never criticize the gods, drove me nuts. I remember him saying he couldn't participate in one of our Survivor-style games because the idea of arguing against great songs was too horrible to consider. Can't fathom that kind of subservience to art or artist.
I didn't dislike him, but that aspect was frustrating. I remember him trying to get Maj into Bruce by having him listen to his High Hopes outtakes EP. Like, High Hopes is a rough enough sell, let alone the outtakes. If you are going to try to sell someone on Bruce, that's not what you do it with!
Image
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)

Post by matedog »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 2:17pm
matedog wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 1:49pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 12:15pm
coffeepotman wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 12:05pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 11:14am


Even tho that discussion is only a couple years old, I have zero recollection, even in re-reading what I contributed, of it. I would reiterate one thing I said: it shows that liberal is not the same thing as left.
Muppett flamed me about something stupid in the Kiss thread, I was like dude take it easy, whatever, you win, happy now
I still have him on Ignore, should he ever return. His fealty to rock's canon, that we should never criticize the gods, drove me nuts. I remember him saying he couldn't participate in one of our Survivor-style games because the idea of arguing against great songs was too horrible to consider. Can't fathom that kind of subservience to art or artist.
I didn't dislike him, but that aspect was frustrating. I remember him trying to get Maj into Bruce by having him listen to his High Hopes outtakes EP. Like, High Hopes is a rough enough sell, let alone the outtakes. If you are going to try to sell someone on Bruce, that's not what you do it with!
Image
Exactly.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)

Post by matedog »

That like six page heated debate we had regarding The Doors all whilst proclaiming we didn't feel that strongly about the band: https://clashcity.com/boards/viewtopic. ... 16#p343516
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)

Post by Heston »

matedog wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 5:11pm
That like six page heated debate we had regarding The Doors all whilst proclaiming we didn't feel that strongly about the band: https://clashcity.com/boards/viewtopic. ... 16#p343516
My "Hello, I Hate You" line received no love.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)

Post by Dr. Medulla »

matedog wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 5:11pm
That like six page heated debate we had regarding The Doors all whilst proclaiming we didn't feel that strongly about the band: https://clashcity.com/boards/viewtopic. ... 16#p343516
:lol: It illustrates that I'm a conversation junkie, anyway.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)

Post by revbob »

Heston wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 5:18pm
matedog wrote:
12 Jan 2022, 5:11pm
That like six page heated debate we had regarding The Doors all whilst proclaiming we didn't feel that strongly about the band: https://clashcity.com/boards/viewtopic. ... 16#p343516
My "Hello, I Hate You" line received no love.
This was the winner
tepista wrote:
09 Jul 2013, 1:25pm
The Krieger/Densmore project should call itself "The Hinges"

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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)

Post by Inder »

I loved all the survivor polls and strategic voting and insidious double-crossing :cool:

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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)

Post by Dr. Medulla »

"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: IMCT is 20! Great Threads (2012-2022)

Post by BitterTom »

Inder wrote:
13 Jan 2022, 10:43am
I loved all the survivor polls and strategic voting and insidious double-crossing :cool:
Seconded, the original Clash one was a hell of a lot of fun and on a personal level The Beatles one got me into a fair number of their songs that I foolishly dismissed whilst being completely ignorant to them.

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