Happy Birthday, weller259!

[Flex]

Are Red Sox fans still complaining?

Well, we've won 4 times the number of championships as you guys this century, so no.

[Flex]

I think the "deserve/participation" trophy thing is sort of a red herring. A team can't win a championship unless you play and win the games, nothing else factors into it. In terms of which fanbases we extend our sympathies to and thus cheer for a championship for them to alleviate their miseries, id argue fans of historically inept franchises generally "deserve" it more rather than less, so far as were measuring these things at all.

I think they reserve the right to not route for a shitty team.

More seriously, I actually more or less agree with this. Sports team owner almost all rely on the cultural norm we have that it's considered virtuous to stick to one team and will exploit that sort of captured audience to the hilt. The aforementioned Rockies are a perfect example. Just really obvious and cynical disinterest in ever being competitive and thanks to a pretty good ballpark to spend a game at and MLB revenue sharing, there's never an incentive to improve. The teams like the dodgers and Yankees who are actually willing to win through reinvestment in theor teams are the rarity.

I can't really wrap my head around just picking another team and rooting for them without any geographic or family/social connection, but I can definitely see myself just checking out watching a sport altogether if "my" team doesn't take winning seriously.

Addendum: but because it's such an ingrained norm, I can't really blame fans who stick with their team through the lean years even if they're being pretty obviously taken advantage of. It's that sense of empathy and compassion that separates the red Sox fan from the Yankees fan. :shifty:

[gkbill]

I think the "deserve/participation" trophy thing is sort of a red herring. A team can't win a championship unless you play and win the games, nothing else factors into it. In terms of which fanbases we extend our sympathies to and thus cheer for a championship for them to alleviate their miseries, id argue fans of historically inept franchises generally "deserve" it more rather than less, so far as were measuring these things at all.

I think they reserve the right to not route for a shitty team.

More seriously, I actually more or less agree with this. Sports team owner almost all rely on the cultural norm we have that it's considered virtuous to stick to one team and will exploit that sort of captured audience to the hilt. The aforementioned Rockies are a perfect example. Just really obvious and cynical disinterest in ever being competitive and thanks to a pretty good ballpark to spend a game at and MLB revenue sharing, there's never an incentive to improve. The teams like the dodgers and Yankees who are actually willing to win through reinvestment in theor teams are the rarity.

I can't really wrap my head around just picking another team and rooting for them without any geographic or family/social connection, but I can definitely see myself just checking out watching a sport altogether if "my" team doesn't take winning seriously.

Hello,

Promotion/relegation would help MLB (although some would say it doesn't need help with revenue; I'd be careful as young fans may be a minority). As things stand now, if your team is at the bottom of the league, why go to a game? If your team is in the relegation zone towards the end of the season, every game is very important.

[Flex]

Hello,

Promotion/relegation would help MLB (although some would say it doesn't need help with revenue; I'd be careful as young fans may be a minority). As things stand now, if your team is at the bottom of the league, why go to a game? If your team is in the relegation zone towards the end of the season, every game is very important.

Fully agreed. MLB more than any other sport in America (well, except soccer I guess) is well suited for promotion/relegation. There's such a strong history of different leagues in the sport that MLB has done its best to destroy, but actually having a baseball pyramid would really suit the game. There would always be haves and have nots, but I think you would create - as you say - a lot more meaningful ball by having to stay out of relegation and you'd also give lots more opportunities for potential fans outside of the major media markets to become fans of a local team even if they aren't top of the pyramid. When minor league teams are all just part of the feeder system for the mlb, there's not a lot of basis to create new fans for those smaller teams. Having competitive, meaningful baseball getting played around the country again is a great idea. An idea mlb and ownership will never allow, of course.

[revbob]

I think the "deserve/participation" trophy thing is sort of a red herring. A team can't win a championship unless you play and win the games, nothing else factors into it. In terms of which fanbases we extend our sympathies to and thus cheer for a championship for them to alleviate their miseries, id argue fans of historically inept franchises generally "deserve" it more rather than less, so far as were measuring these things at all.

I think they reserve the right to not route for a shitty team.

More seriously, I actually more or less agree with this. Sports team owner almost all rely on the cultural norm we have that it's considered virtuous to stick to one team and will exploit that sort of captured audience to the hilt. The aforementioned Rockies are a perfect example. Just really obvious and cynical disinterest in ever being competitive and thanks to a pretty good ballpark to spend a game at and MLB revenue sharing, there's never an incentive to improve. The teams like the dodgers and Yankees who are actually willing to win through reinvestment in theor teams are the rarity.

I can't really wrap my head around just picking another team and rooting for them without any geographic or family/social connection, but I can definitely see myself just checking out watching a sport altogether if "my" team doesn't take winning seriously.

Addendum: but because it's such an ingrained norm, I can't really blame fans who stick with their team through the lean years even if they're being pretty obviously taken advantage of. It's that sense of empathy and compassion for white people that separates the red Sox fan from the Yankees fan.

[Flex]

I think the "deserve/participation" trophy thing is sort of a red herring. A team can't win a championship unless you play and win the games, nothing else factors into it. In terms of which fanbases we extend our sympathies to and thus cheer for a championship for them to alleviate their miseries, id argue fans of historically inept franchises generally "deserve" it more rather than less, so far as were measuring these things at all.

I think they reserve the right to not route for a shitty team.

More seriously, I actually more or less agree with this. Sports team owner almost all rely on the cultural norm we have that it's considered virtuous to stick to one team and will exploit that sort of captured audience to the hilt. The aforementioned Rockies are a perfect example. Just really obvious and cynical disinterest in ever being competitive and thanks to a pretty good ballpark to spend a game at and MLB revenue sharing, there's never an incentive to improve. The teams like the dodgers and Yankees who are actually willing to win through reinvestment in theor teams are the rarity.

I can't really wrap my head around just picking another team and rooting for them without any geographic or family/social connection, but I can definitely see myself just checking out watching a sport altogether if "my" team doesn't take winning seriously.

Addendum: but because it's such an ingrained norm, I can't really blame fans who stick with their team through the lean years even if they're being pretty obviously taken advantage of. It's that sense of empathy and compassion for white people that separates the red Sox fan from the Yankees fan.

I have the good taste not to say the quiet part out loud.

[Dr. Medulla]

I think the "deserve/participation" trophy thing is sort of a red herring. A team can't win a championship unless you play and win the games, nothing else factors into it. In terms of which fanbases we extend our sympathies to and thus cheer for a championship for them to alleviate their miseries, id argue fans of historically inept franchises generally "deserve" it more rather than less, so far as were measuring these things at all.

I think they reserve the right to not route for a shitty team.

More seriously, I actually more or less agree with this. Sports team owner almost all rely on the cultural norm we have that it's considered virtuous to stick to one team and will exploit that sort of captured audience to the hilt. The aforementioned Rockies are a perfect example. Just really obvious and cynical disinterest in ever being competitive and thanks to a pretty good ballpark to spend a game at and MLB revenue sharing, there's never an incentive to improve. The teams like the dodgers and Yankees who are actually willing to win through reinvestment in theor teams are the rarity.

I can't really wrap my head around just picking another team and rooting for them without any geographic or family/social connection, but I can definitely see myself just checking out watching a sport altogether if "my" team doesn't take winning seriously.

Addendum: but because it's such an ingrained norm, I can't really blame fans who stick with their team through the lean years even if they're being pretty obviously taken advantage of. It's that sense of empathy and compassion for white people that separates the red Sox fan from the Yankees fan.

I have the good taste not to say the quiet part out loud.

It's called being cultured. Hence, Yankees fans don't understand it.

[Marky Dread]

Another one I missed. Belated best wishes buddy

[weller259]

Another one I missed. Belated best wishes buddy

Thank you very much, Marky sir. I really appreciate it. Cheers mate