I saw Tep today, a little worried about him...

[Dr. Medulla]

I always root for the bull, disgusting "sport".

I agree with this post.

I agree with the agreement of this post.

Yeah same.

I don't wish violence upon people, but sometimes the violence visited upon them seems just.

[Kimmelweck]

I'm no bullfighting expert, but I can already spot a couple flaws in this guy's technique.

I’m no expert either, but yeah, absolutely shitty technique. He just sits behind the cape, whips it away at the last second, and gets a face full of angry bull. Footwork, people!

Oh, I keep seeing TV ads for a rodeo this week. Same thing but the dress different, right?

No fan of bullfighting, but I'd much rather go to a bullfight than a rodeo, honestly. Didn't know this until I just looked it up - apparently they still have them in the US, but you aren't allowed to kill the bull. The object is to grab a flower from the back of the bull to symbolize a clean kill. That doesn't sound so bad. Kinda stupid maybe, but not particularly cruel.

[Sparky]

I'm no bullfighting expert, but I can already spot a couple flaws in this guy's technique.

I’m no expert either, but yeah, absolutely shitty technique. He just sits behind the cape, whips it away at the last second, and gets a face full of angry bull. Footwork, people!

Oh, I keep seeing TV ads for a rodeo this week. Same thing but the dress different, right?

No fan of bullfighting, but I'd much rather go to a bullfight than a rodeo, honestly. Didn't know this until I just looked it up - apparently they still have them in the US, but you aren't allowed to kill the bull. The object is to grab a flower from the back of the bull to symbolize a clean kill. That doesn't sound so bad. Kinda stupid maybe, but not particularly cruel.

The more I read about rodeos, the less I think I'd ever be able to attend one, the animals just aren't treated well. I'm with you on the US bullfighting, anything has to be better than torturing a living creature to death in front of a cheering crowd.

[revbob]

I always root for the bull, disgusting "sport".

I agree with this post.

I agree with the agreement of this post.

Yeah same.

I don't wish violence upon people, but sometimes the violence visited upon them seems just.

Toying with wild animals that can easily kill you just seems like a bad idea and invites trouble.

[Dr. Medulla]

I agree with this post.

I agree with the agreement of this post.

Yeah same.

I don't wish violence upon people, but sometimes the violence visited upon them seems just.

Toying with wild animals that can easily kill you just seems like a bad idea and invites trouble.

Worse than toying, bullfighting's history is one of torture and execution. It's fucking barbaric. We're past bear baiting, so why not extend that to all animals?

[Kimmelweck]

I got persuaded to go to a bullfight at a small coliseum in Mexico 3 decades ago. I love animals, and figured I’d hate it, but whatever, it was going to happen anyway, with or without me. I was a young anthropology student at the time so I went. It was pretty brutal, but it was also fascinating, culturally speaking. Very surreal. I wouldn’t go again, at least not the killing kind, but it felt like stepping way back in time for a few hours. I still have the ticket stub and a handbill. It was at this place, in Zacatecas:



They had 6 bulls on the bill, and before each one a girl would come out with a sign showing the weight of the animal – 500kg or whatever. The bigger the bull, the louder the cheer from the crowd. The first act was the picadors – 2 guys on horseback with lances, who would jab the bull in the neck with small darts with long colorful ribbons dangling off. The next act was the banderilleros – 3 guys on foot who would jab the bull in the shoulders with 2 foot long barbed spikes, also with ribbons. Part of the point of the first two acts was to piss the animal off, and sever some nerves so the bull would feel less pain, lower its head, and be weakened for the final act. By this point the half-ton bull would be frothing with anger and draped in a curtain of blood and ribbons. Finally, the matador would enter the ring and after several passes with the cape, they’d make the killing blow with a long sword. Then the bull would be dragged off by a team of mules, to be butchered and eaten. A pretty bizarre and gory spectacle, and I’d definitely support outlawing this kind of bullfight. As far as I know they only have them in a very few Spanish speaking countries now.

[Kimmelweck]

Here’s my ticket and the handbill. Like I said, I wouldn’t go again, but it was pretty fucking unforgettable.

BullfightZacatecas1a.jpg (574.95 KiB) Viewed 198 times

BullfightZacatecas2a.jpg (295.45 KiB) Viewed 198 times

[Dr. Medulla]

It doesn't seem all that different to people attending executions or lynchings. The idea of seeing a living creature, human or not, set up to be killed is monstrous. If animals are to be killed, it's as acts of mercy or part of the food cycle, but never as entertainment. We should feel remorse when an animal dies.

[Kimmelweck]

It doesn't seem all that different to people attending executions or lynchings.

I wouldn't equate it at all with human executions or lynchings, which are far worse, like in a totally different stratosphere of vengeful awfulness, but yeah, that kind of bullfighting is a cruel cultural practice that should end.

The idea of seeing a living creature, human or not, set up to be killed is monstrous. If animals are to be killed, it's as acts of mercy or part of the food cycle, but never as entertainment. We should feel remorse when an animal dies.

I agree with you of course that killing of any kind should not be seen as entertainment. Oddly enough, I got a distinct sense that the crowd viewed the bulls with admiration: there was definitely more of an element to the event of celebrating the magnificence of the animals rather than pure blood-lust. Bullfighting is a bizarre practice that should be banned. Monstrous...yes, especially to our eyes, but no more monstrous than the shameful way livestock animals raised as part of the food cycle in the US are often treated before slaughter (something I find very sad, and one of the reasons I'd like to cut out all or most meat from my diet). I know you're a vegetarian Doc, and I'm not sure what the meat industry is like in Canada, but I think more people in the US who eat meat should witness the way their meat is raised and killed and maybe there'd be more appreciation for the rights of the animals. For what it's worth, these would at least have been free-range bulls, who got to go out with a fight before being killed and eaten. American corporate meat production is often far more cruel. I'm not defending that kind of bullfighting, of course - I was there as an anthropology student to witness another culture, not to enjoy an execution or be entertained, and I found it pretty grotesque. It sucks that humans are so shitty at treating animals, and each other, with respect.

[Dr. Medulla]

It doesn't seem all that different to people attending executions or lynchings.

I wouldn't equate it at all with human executions or lynchings, which are far worse, like in a totally different stratosphere of vengeful awfulness, but yeah, that kind of bullfighting is a cruel cultural practice that should end.

I should have made clear that my equation was based on the idea that seeing a creature, human or not, lose their life—that's the payoff of the whole, that someone's gonna die. You're right that bullfighting isn't rooted in vengeance, but instead a kind of machismo, of going up against a dangerous and worthy opponent and besting them. But in the end, the crowd gets to see a death occur before their eyes.

Monstrous...yes, especially to our eyes, but no more monstrous than the shameful way livestock animals raised as part of the food cycle in the US are often treated before slaughter (something I find very sad, and one of the reasons I'd like to cut out all or most meat from my diet). I know you're a vegetarian Doc, and I'm not sure what the meat industry is like in Canada, but I think more people in the US who eat meat should witness the way their meat is raised and killed and maybe there'd be more appreciation for the rights of the animals. For what it's worth, these would at least have been free-range bulls, who got to go out with a fight before being killed and eaten. American corporate meat production is often far more cruel. I'm not defending that kind of bullfighting, of course - I was there as an anthropology student to witness another culture, not to enjoy an execution or be entertained, and I found it pretty grotesque. It sucks that humans are so shitty at treating animals, and each other, with respect.

I honestly can't say whether the Canadian meat industry is more "humane" than the American. I suspect that if it is better, it's only by a matter of slight degree. And I agree that people should see how they get their meat. I can accept that human beings eat meat and so it means that animals have to die to satisfy that. And that death and being eaten is the norm in the nature. It makes me sad when a life ends, but I understand that it means that other lives will be continued. But it's not a subtle distinction between that and treating living creatures as just meat-to-be, unworthy of any kind of respect as fellow living creatures. We simply aren't obliged to be contemptuous assholes in the exchange. That's why I checked out on meat—I just couldn't participate in that process knowing that we don't have to be horrible and that I have the option of rejecting it. That doesn't mean I look down upon meat eaters—c'mon, sainthood is not the base expectation for daily life—but I do wish more people engaged in serious reflection on the issue.

[weller259]

Whoa, Nellie, whoa!
Fool was on his knees behind a cape as a bull bullrushed him. Its kinda like the NFL.
I am surprised there isn't more of this in America really, seeing as our most popular "sport" is all about violent physical acts between competitors. We Americans love blood and violence, so bullfighting seems perfectly suited. Expect a Fox reality show coming soon.

[Flex]

I feel like I'm living in an Ernest Hemingway novel all of a sudden!

[tepista]

https://www.progressiveruin.com/2012/09 ... r-and-now/

[gkbill]

https://www.progressiveruin.com/2012/09 ... r-and-now/

Hello,

It's a cartoon - take it as such.

Black and white Popeye is much better than colorized Popeye!

[gkbill]

https://www.progressiveruin.com/2012/09 ... r-and-now/

Hello,

It's a very old cartoon - take it as such.

Black and white Popeye is much better than colorized Popeye!