Re: I saw Tep today, a little worried about him...
Posted: 14 Mar 2023, 1:28pm
I’m no expert either, but yeah, absolutely shitty technique. He just sits behind the cape, whips it away at the last second, and gets a face full of angry bull. Footwork, people!
No fan of bullfighting, but I'd much rather go to a bullfight than a rodeo, honestly. Didn't know this until I just looked it up - apparently they still have them in the US, but you aren't allowed to kill the bull. The object is to grab a flower from the back of the bull to symbolize a clean kill. That doesn't sound so bad. Kinda stupid maybe, but not particularly cruel.
The more I read about rodeos, the less I think I'd ever be able to attend one, the animals just aren't treated well. I'm with you on the US bullfighting, anything has to be better than torturing a living creature to death in front of a cheering crowd.Kimmelweck wrote: ↑14 Mar 2023, 1:28pmI’m no expert either, but yeah, absolutely shitty technique. He just sits behind the cape, whips it away at the last second, and gets a face full of angry bull. Footwork, people!
No fan of bullfighting, but I'd much rather go to a bullfight than a rodeo, honestly. Didn't know this until I just looked it up - apparently they still have them in the US, but you aren't allowed to kill the bull. The object is to grab a flower from the back of the bull to symbolize a clean kill. That doesn't sound so bad. Kinda stupid maybe, but not particularly cruel.
Toying with wild animals that can easily kill you just seems like a bad idea and invites trouble.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Mar 2023, 1:28pmI don't wish violence upon people, but sometimes the violence visited upon them seems just.
Worse than toying, bullfighting's history is one of torture and execution. It's fucking barbaric. We're past bear baiting, so why not extend that to all animals?revbob wrote: ↑14 Mar 2023, 3:04pmToying with wild animals that can easily kill you just seems like a bad idea and invites trouble.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Mar 2023, 1:28pmI don't wish violence upon people, but sometimes the violence visited upon them seems just.
I wouldn't equate it at all with human executions or lynchings, which are far worse, like in a totally different stratosphere of vengeful awfulness, but yeah, that kind of bullfighting is a cruel cultural practice that should end.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Mar 2023, 3:48pmIt doesn't seem all that different to people attending executions or lynchings.
I agree with you of course that killing of any kind should not be seen as entertainment. Oddly enough, I got a distinct sense that the crowd viewed the bulls with admiration: there was definitely more of an element to the event of celebrating the magnificence of the animals rather than pure blood-lust. Bullfighting is a bizarre practice that should be banned. Monstrous...yes, especially to our eyes, but no more monstrous than the shameful way livestock animals raised as part of the food cycle in the US are often treated before slaughter (something I find very sad, and one of the reasons I'd like to cut out all or most meat from my diet). I know you're a vegetarian Doc, and I'm not sure what the meat industry is like in Canada, but I think more people in the US who eat meat should witness the way their meat is raised and killed and maybe there'd be more appreciation for the rights of the animals. For what it's worth, these would at least have been free-range bulls, who got to go out with a fight before being killed and eaten. American corporate meat production is often far more cruel. I'm not defending that kind of bullfighting, of course - I was there as an anthropology student to witness another culture, not to enjoy an execution or be entertained, and I found it pretty grotesque. It sucks that humans are so shitty at treating animals, and each other, with respect.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Mar 2023, 3:48pmThe idea of seeing a living creature, human or not, set up to be killed is monstrous. If animals are to be killed, it's as acts of mercy or part of the food cycle, but never as entertainment. We should feel remorse when an animal dies.
I should have made clear that my equation was based on the idea that seeing a creature, human or not, lose their life—that's the payoff of the whole, that someone's gonna die. You're right that bullfighting isn't rooted in vengeance, but instead a kind of machismo, of going up against a dangerous and worthy opponent and besting them. But in the end, the crowd gets to see a death occur before their eyes.Kimmelweck wrote: ↑14 Mar 2023, 7:56pmI wouldn't equate it at all with human executions or lynchings, which are far worse, like in a totally different stratosphere of vengeful awfulness, but yeah, that kind of bullfighting is a cruel cultural practice that should end.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Mar 2023, 3:48pmIt doesn't seem all that different to people attending executions or lynchings.
I honestly can't say whether the Canadian meat industry is more "humane" than the American. I suspect that if it is better, it's only by a matter of slight degree. And I agree that people should see how they get their meat. I can accept that human beings eat meat and so it means that animals have to die to satisfy that. And that death and being eaten is the norm in the nature. It makes me sad when a life ends, but I understand that it means that other lives will be continued. But it's not a subtle distinction between that and treating living creatures as just meat-to-be, unworthy of any kind of respect as fellow living creatures. We simply aren't obliged to be contemptuous assholes in the exchange. That's why I checked out on meat—I just couldn't participate in that process knowing that we don't have to be horrible and that I have the option of rejecting it. That doesn't mean I look down upon meat eaters—c'mon, sainthood is not the base expectation for daily life—but I do wish more people engaged in serious reflection on the issue.Monstrous...yes, especially to our eyes, but no more monstrous than the shameful way livestock animals raised as part of the food cycle in the US are often treated before slaughter (something I find very sad, and one of the reasons I'd like to cut out all or most meat from my diet). I know you're a vegetarian Doc, and I'm not sure what the meat industry is like in Canada, but I think more people in the US who eat meat should witness the way their meat is raised and killed and maybe there'd be more appreciation for the rights of the animals. For what it's worth, these would at least have been free-range bulls, who got to go out with a fight before being killed and eaten. American corporate meat production is often far more cruel. I'm not defending that kind of bullfighting, of course - I was there as an anthropology student to witness another culture, not to enjoy an execution or be entertained, and I found it pretty grotesque. It sucks that humans are so shitty at treating animals, and each other, with respect.
Whoa, Nellie, whoa!
Hello,