MLB 2020

[Flex]

A shame that it taints the 2018 team, which was so much fun to watch from start to finish. Not gonna lie, it also puts a serious bad taste in my mouth going into the next season.

It doesn't on either count for me. As you say, plenty of other teams run these schemes (there's already rumblings about the Yankees and Dodgers) so I don't see how it asterisks the 2018 win or anything. It was just level competition. That banner is gonna be up forever. If they kept Cora around and we entered into a season of grinding controversy over the manager, sure 2020 would suck, but they purged before the season started - and pretty quickly - so my ability to watch the team without worry is fine. There'll be chatter from haters, but who cares?

[Dr. Medulla]

A shame that it taints the 2018 team, which was so much fun to watch from start to finish. Not gonna lie, it also puts a serious bad taste in my mouth going into the next season.

It doesn't on either count for me. As you say, plenty of other teams run these schemes (there's already rumblings about the Yankees and Dodgers) so I don't see how it asterisks the 2018 win or anything. It was just level competition. That banner is gonna be up forever. If they kept Cora around and we entered into a season of grinding controversy over the manager, sure 2020 would suck, but they purged before the season started - and pretty quickly - so my ability to watch the team without worry is fine. There'll be chatter from haters, but who cares?

The older I get, the more my perspective on sports changes from winning to just liking the people on the teams I cheer for. When the two things merge, that's fantastic. Which, I know, does end up straying into mockworthy "playing the game the right way" territory, but so be it. I don't want to seem naive or Pollyannaish about this stuff—cheating exists wherever there are rules and it's always been that way—but there's a significant disappointment factor for me in that players I found likeable were pursuing clear violations of the rules to win. Even if everyone else does it, that doesn't change anything for me. Maybe I'm not cut out for following a team anymore?

[Flex]

The older I get, the more my perspective on sports changes from winning to just liking the people on the teams I cheer for. When the two things merge, that's fantastic. Which, I know, does end up straying into mockworthy "playing the game the right way" territory, but so be it. I don't want to seem naive or Pollyannaish about this stuff—cheating exists wherever there are rules and it's always been that way—but there's a significant disappointment factor for me in that players I found likeable were pursuing clear violations of the rules to win. Even if everyone else does it, that doesn't change anything for me. Maybe I'm not cut out for following a team anymore?

Hard to say. I just assume cheating is rampant in all sport, constantly and by everyone. All faves will eventually disappoint you if you let them.

[WestwayKid]

Sign stealing has been happening since they started using signs and isn't technically against the rules. I believe you just can't use certain forms of technology to relay info or something like that. Heck, Bobby Thomson knew Ralph Branca was going to throw a fastball in 1951 because they stole the sign and relayed it to the dugout via a buzzer. I'm not saying sign stealing is right or wrong, but it has been part of the game for decades and for MLB to suddenly get all up in arms seems silly. How about they just define the rules so they're not so vague and move forward? It just doesn't seem right to single out Hinch and Cora. They are not the only managers to steal signs, nor will they be the last managers to steal signs.

[Dr. Medulla]

The older I get, the more my perspective on sports changes from winning to just liking the people on the teams I cheer for. When the two things merge, that's fantastic. Which, I know, does end up straying into mockworthy "playing the game the right way" territory, but so be it. I don't want to seem naive or Pollyannaish about this stuff—cheating exists wherever there are rules and it's always been that way—but there's a significant disappointment factor for me in that players I found likeable were pursuing clear violations of the rules to win. Even if everyone else does it, that doesn't change anything for me. Maybe I'm not cut out for following a team anymore?

Hard to say. I just assume cheating is rampant in all sport, constantly and by everyone. All faves will eventually disappoint you if you let them.

Agreed completely. Maybe what the real issue is for me is that I can't compartmentalize and easily ignore what happened. Abstractly, yeah, of course I know that everyone cheats and there's never been an edenic past of gentlemanly competition. But when it's not right in front of you, you don't have to consider it, you can pretend that things are legit enough. It's somewhat akin to when I ended a friendship a few years back. He was someone I knew was becoming increasingly racist and authoritarian in his politics, but there was always enough wiggle room for me to rationalize and ignore what was happening for the sake of the qualities I did admire. But after Ferguson and BLM, the things he was saying made it impossible for me to pretend and I told him I was out. I guess my threshold for being able to sufficiently pretend with sports is getting lower.

[Dr. Medulla]

Sign stealing has been happening since they started using signs and isn't technically against the rules. I believe you just can't use certain forms of technology to relay info or something like that. Heck, Bobby Thomson knew Ralph Branca was going to throw a fastball in 1951 because they stole the sign and relayed it to the dugout via a buzzer. I'm not saying sign stealing is right or wrong, but it has been part of the game for decades and for MLB to suddenly get all up in arms seems silly. How about they just define the rules so they're not so vague and move forward? It just doesn't seem right to single out Hinch and Cora. They are not the only managers to steal signs, nor will they be the last managers to steal signs.

There's a not-so-subtle distinction, tho, between what happens on the field versus establishing a system that employs technology and a series of confederates. Being able to break the code while on second base or watching the third base coach is cool because it depends on the skill of a player, just like any other baseball skill. Using buzzers and garbage cans and video footage is distinct from a player's individual skill set; it's an evasion of it.

[Flex]

Agreed completely. Maybe what the real issue is for me is that I can't compartmentalize and easily ignore what happened. Abstractly, yeah, of course I know that everyone cheats and there's never been an edenic past of gentlemanly competition. But when it's not right in front of you, you don't have to consider it, you can pretend that things are legit enough. It's somewhat akin to when I ended a friendship a few years back. He was someone I knew was becoming increasingly racist and authoritarian in his politics, but there was always enough wiggle room for me to rationalize and ignore what was happening for the sake of the qualities I did admire. But after Ferguson and BLM, the things he was saying made it impossible for me to pretend and I told him I was out. I guess my threshold for being able to sufficiently pretend with sports is getting lower.

It can kind of swing either way because, objectively, the threshold to remain engaged is pretty low. So either you can draw a pretty firm line and spend your time doing other leisure activities with relatively minimal loss, or you can just accept whatever, again with relatively little repercussion. I choose the latter, but it's pretty much a coin-flip.

[WestwayKid]

Sign stealing has been happening since they started using signs and isn't technically against the rules. I believe you just can't use certain forms of technology to relay info or something like that. Heck, Bobby Thomson knew Ralph Branca was going to throw a fastball in 1951 because they stole the sign and relayed it to the dugout via a buzzer. I'm not saying sign stealing is right or wrong, but it has been part of the game for decades and for MLB to suddenly get all up in arms seems silly. How about they just define the rules so they're not so vague and move forward? It just doesn't seem right to single out Hinch and Cora. They are not the only managers to steal signs, nor will they be the last managers to steal signs.

There's a not-so-subtle distinction, tho, between what happens on the field versus establishing a system that employs technology and a series of confederates. Being able to break the code while on second base or watching the third base coach is cool because it depends on the skill of a player, just like any other baseball skill. Using buzzers and garbage cans and video footage is distinct from a player's individual skill set; it's an evasion of it.

Good point and I agree. It would appear that the rules put out in 2019 were designed to prevent a coordinated effort to use technology to steal signs, but to also allow for old fashioned "on the field" sign stealing.

[Dr. Medulla]

Agreed completely. Maybe what the real issue is for me is that I can't compartmentalize and easily ignore what happened. Abstractly, yeah, of course I know that everyone cheats and there's never been an edenic past of gentlemanly competition. But when it's not right in front of you, you don't have to consider it, you can pretend that things are legit enough. It's somewhat akin to when I ended a friendship a few years back. He was someone I knew was becoming increasingly racist and authoritarian in his politics, but there was always enough wiggle room for me to rationalize and ignore what was happening for the sake of the qualities I did admire. But after Ferguson and BLM, the things he was saying made it impossible for me to pretend and I told him I was out. I guess my threshold for being able to sufficiently pretend with sports is getting lower.

It can kind of swing either way because, objectively, the threshold to remain engaged is pretty low. So either you can draw a pretty firm line and spend your time doing other leisure activities with relatively minimal loss, or you can just accept whatever, again with relatively little repercussion. I choose the latter, but it's pretty much a coin-flip.

Yeah, I agree, and I have found myself being a lot less engaged in recent years. In the past tough losses would ruin my day and the like. Important games would be unbearably tense. But I've let that go—a bunch of championships makes it a lot easier—and I've been able to just focus on the fun and the good. Even those crappy seasons of 2014 and 2015, plus the quick exit from the playoffs the years after that, I enjoyed watching because there were plenty of young players who were easy to cheer for. Winning is better than losing, but if the players can convince me that they enjoy playing baseball, that's the bigger draw.

[Flex]

but if the players can convince me that they enjoy playing baseball, that's the bigger draw.

what would be best is if every game could end in a draw, a nice firm handshake for a game well played, and a bowl of ice cream for every player

[Dr. Medulla]

but if the players can convince me that they enjoy playing baseball, that's the bigger draw.

what would be best is if every game could end in a draw, a nice firm handshake for a game well played, and a bowl of ice cream for every player

I also expect them to say goodgame, goodgame, googame, googam, googa, gg to each other.

[tepista]

Sign stealing has been happening since they started using signs and isn't technically against the rules. I believe you just can't use certain forms of technology to relay info or something like that. Heck, Bobby Thomson knew Ralph Branca was going to throw a fastball in 1951 because they stole the sign and relayed it to the dugout via a buzzer. I'm not saying sign stealing is right or wrong, but it has been part of the game for decades and for MLB to suddenly get all up in arms seems silly. How about they just define the rules so they're not so vague and move forward? It just doesn't seem right to single out Hinch and Cora. They are not the only managers to steal signs, nor will they be the last managers to steal signs.

There's a not-so-subtle distinction, tho, between what happens on the field versus establishing a system that employs technology and a series of confederates. Being able to break the code while on second base or watching the third base coach is cool because it depends on the skill of a player, just like any other baseball skill. Using buzzers and garbage cans and video footage is distinct from a player's individual skill set; it's an evasion of it.

Good point and I agree. It would appear that the rules put out in 2019 were designed to prevent a coordinated effort to use technology to steal signs, but to also allow for old fashioned "on the field" sign stealing.

If you can steal signs then good on you and bad on the opponent for being a step behind, but not with fucking video cameras. I beleive I heard on the radio that a memeo went out to all teams a few years ago that anyone using camera would be dealt with harshly.

[Flex]

If you can steal signs then good on you and bad on the opponent for being a step behind, but not with fucking video cameras. I beleive I heard on the radio that a memeo went out to all teams a few years ago that anyone using camera would be dealt with harshly.

Yeah, this is why it's being treated so harshly. They did this basically immediately after being told doing this would get them in a fuck-ton of trouble. I'd stake my life on a bunch of other clubs (if not all of them) also doing some version of this with video and such, but these idiots got caught so they have to roast.

[Inder]

The Blue Jays are good boys and would never.

Cora was kind of a dick, so lol at him, and the Astros were basically run like a hedge fund and squandered their plucky underdogs thing a while back, so double-lol at them.

[tepista]

Major League Baseball Regulation 1-1 prohibits all uniformed personnel, clubhouse staff and equipment staff from using or possessing telephones or similar electronic devices, including any type of walkie-talkies, mobile phones, ‘smart watches’ (e.g., Apple watches), laptop computers, tablets or other communication devices, in or near the dugout, in the bullpens or on the playing field once batting practice has begun. MLBR 1-1 also prohibits the use of such devices in the clubhouse within 30 minutes of the start of a game. The prohibition includes the use of any electronic equipment that has the capability to receive electronic messages by any person occupying the bench or in the bullpen.

* * *

Electronic equipment, including game feeds in the Club replay room and/or video room, may never be used during a game for the purpose of stealing the opposing team’s signs. In this respect, MLBR 1-1 expressly provides that “under no circumstance may electronic equipment or devices be used for the purpose of stealing signs or conveying other information designed to give a Club a competitive advantage.” To be clear, the use of any equipment in the clubhouse or in a Club’s replay or video rooms to decode an opposing Club’s signs during the game violates this Regulation. (Emphasis in original.) Clubs (and Club employees) who are found to have utilized equipment in the replay or video rooms for such purposes during a game will be subject to discipline by the Commissioner’s Office.

https://www.crawfishboxes.com/2020/1/13 ... estigation