MLB 2022

[BostonBeaneater]

i'm not a fan of the Asstros by any means. They and the Dodgers were the 2 best teams during the regular season and while I do not like them, the Asstros do have a talented and deep team and i'm not surprised they are champions of 2022. They played the best when it counted and that is how championships are won or lost.

Hoping for a eventful hot stove season, waiting to see what happens to free agents. Should be interesting.

Let's Go Mets

[Dr. Medulla]

i'm not a fan of the Asstros by any means. They and the Dodgers were the 2 best teams during the regular season and while I do not like them, the Asstros do have a talented and deep team and i'm not surprised they are champions of 2022. They played the best when it counted and that is how championships are won or lost.

Hoping for a eventful hot stove season, waiting to see what happens to free agents. Should be interesting.

Let's Go Mets

How much do you pay DeGrom and for how long? I fear he's a steady IL guy for the rest of his career, but someone's going to give him $40M/yr.

[revbob]

i'm not a fan of the Asstros by any means. They and the Dodgers were the 2 best teams during the regular season and while I do not like them, the Asstros do have a talented and deep team and i'm not surprised they are champions of 2022. They played the best when it counted and that is how championships are won or lost.

Hoping for a eventful hot stove season, waiting to see what happens to free agents. Should be interesting.

Let's Go Mets

How much do you pay DeGrom and for how long? I fear he's a steady IL guy for the rest of his career, but someone's going to give him $40M/yr.

Oh yeah, Any team that feels they are close and that's the piece they need will be going for him.

[Dr. Medulla]

i'm not a fan of the Asstros by any means. They and the Dodgers were the 2 best teams during the regular season and while I do not like them, the Asstros do have a talented and deep team and i'm not surprised they are champions of 2022. They played the best when it counted and that is how championships are won or lost.

Hoping for a eventful hot stove season, waiting to see what happens to free agents. Should be interesting.

Let's Go Mets

How much do you pay DeGrom and for how long? I fear he's a steady IL guy for the rest of his career, but someone's going to give him $40M/yr.

Oh yeah, Any team that feels they are close and that's the piece they need will be going for him.

Which, if it were a one-year deal, you could make the case, but he's going to want a multi-year contract at that rate. He's like Pedro after his first shoulder injury—it's going to just get worse, with more frequent trips to the IL and gradually decreasing effectiveness.

[revbob]

i'm not a fan of the Asstros by any means. They and the Dodgers were the 2 best teams during the regular season and while I do not like them, the Asstros do have a talented and deep team and i'm not surprised they are champions of 2022. They played the best when it counted and that is how championships are won or lost.

Hoping for a eventful hot stove season, waiting to see what happens to free agents. Should be interesting.

Let's Go Mets

How much do you pay DeGrom and for how long? I fear he's a steady IL guy for the rest of his career, but someone's going to give him $40M/yr.

Oh yeah, Any team that feels they are close and that's the piece they need will be going for him.

Which, if it were a one-year deal, you could make the case, but he's going to want a multi-year contract at that rate. He's like Pedro after his first shoulder injury—it's going to just get worse, with more frequent trips to the IL and gradually decreasing effectiveness.

For sure but some teams are just gonna want that brass ring and they will figure out the rest later.

[Dr. Medulla]

i'm not a fan of the Asstros by any means. They and the Dodgers were the 2 best teams during the regular season and while I do not like them, the Asstros do have a talented and deep team and i'm not surprised they are champions of 2022. They played the best when it counted and that is how championships are won or lost.

Hoping for a eventful hot stove season, waiting to see what happens to free agents. Should be interesting.

Let's Go Mets

How much do you pay DeGrom and for how long? I fear he's a steady IL guy for the rest of his career, but someone's going to give him $40M/yr.

Oh yeah, Any team that feels they are close and that's the piece they need will be going for him.

Which, if it were a one-year deal, you could make the case, but he's going to want a multi-year contract at that rate. He's like Pedro after his first shoulder injury—it's going to just get worse, with more frequent trips to the IL and gradually decreasing effectiveness.

For sure but some teams are just gonna want that brass ring and they will figure out the rest later.

This is true. On the one hand, baseball is driven by advanced analytics, quantifying everything possible. On the other hand, teams are like a salesman from Ann Arbor in a Vegas casino.

[weller259]

How much do you pay DeGrom and for how long? I fear he's a steady IL guy for the rest of his career, but someone's going to give him $40M/yr.

Oh yeah, Any team that feels they are close and that's the piece they need will be going for him.

Which, if it were a one-year deal, you could make the case, but he's going to want a multi-year contract at that rate. He's like Pedro after his first shoulder injury—it's going to just get worse, with more frequent trips to the IL and gradually decreasing effectiveness.

For sure but some teams are just gonna want that brass ring and they will figure out the rest later.

This is true. On the one hand, baseball is driven by advanced analytics, quantifying everything possible. On the other hand, teams are like a salesman from Ann Arbor in a Vegas casino.

Well, a few factors to consider ...
first, the Mets know how valuable deGrom is to their team, check 2021 to see they simply crashed and burned when he got hurt, they did not recover.
second, yes he has suffered some injuries these last few years, but by the end of 2022, he was healthy and still throwing bullets.
third, look no further than the Phillies who took another of our aces when Wilponzis decided not to pay him, Zack Wheeler, who still throws bullets very effectively. No way do they want to see that happen again.
fourth, the Mets' owner has $14,000,000,000 in his bank account and knows the value of having talented people work for him.

Since its not my money at stake, i'd give him 4 years and $180 M without much deep thought about it. deGrom is worth it, his past performances for the team and what his presence means for them cannot be quantified by any advanced stat metric. I'd pay him whatever he wants on whatever term he wants. After all, its only money at this point.
Yes, the Mets need more than just deGrom, they do have other pitching needs as well, Bassitt and Walker are free agents as well and one thing I am sure of, you simply CANNOT have enough quality pitching.

I can also say that if deGrom leaves due to getting a more lucrative offer that the Mets refused to match, they will be totally vilified by the local media, and the fanbase. And us Mets fans do not want that to happen again either. In 1977 they traded a still-in-his-prime Tom Seaver (unthinkable really) and it set the franchise back 8 years, and we sure as shit don't want THAT to happen again.

So, pay the man and hope he stays healthy. They can always use LTIR if he does get hurt again, as I say its only money, but if the Mets REALLY want to get over the hump and advance in the postseason, they need deGrom and a few more quality pitchers to even think of becoming a champion. So there is much work to do.

PAY THE MAN WHAT HE'S WORTH!
Let's Go Mets

[Dr. Medulla]

Oh yeah, Any team that feels they are close and that's the piece they need will be going for him.

Which, if it were a one-year deal, you could make the case, but he's going to want a multi-year contract at that rate. He's like Pedro after his first shoulder injury—it's going to just get worse, with more frequent trips to the IL and gradually decreasing effectiveness.

For sure but some teams are just gonna want that brass ring and they will figure out the rest later.

This is true. On the one hand, baseball is driven by advanced analytics, quantifying everything possible. On the other hand, teams are like a salesman from Ann Arbor in a Vegas casino.

Well, a few factors to consider ...
first, the Mets know how valuable deGrom is to their team, check 2021 to see they simply crashed and burned when he got hurt, they did not recover.
second, yes he has suffered some injuries these last few years, but by the end of 2022, he was healthy and still throwing bullets.
third, look no further than the Phillies who took another of our aces when Wilponzis decided not to pay him, Zack Wheeler, who still throws bullets very effectively. No way do they want to see that happen again.
fourth, the Mets' owner has $14,000,000,000 in his bank account and knows the value of having talented people work for him.

Since its not my money at stake, i'd give him 4 years and $180 M without much deep thought about it. deGrom is worth it, his past performances for the team and what his presence means for them cannot be quantified by any advanced stat metric. I'd pay him whatever he wants on whatever term he wants. After all, its only money at this point.
Yes, the Mets need more than just deGrom, they do have other pitching needs as well, Bassitt and Walker are free agents as well and one thing I am sure of, you simply CANNOT have enough quality pitching.

I can also say that if deGrom leaves due to getting a more lucrative offer that the Mets refused to match, they will be totally vilified by the local media, and the fanbase. And us Mets fans do not want that to happen again either. In 1977 they traded a still-in-his-prime Tom Seaver (unthinkable really) and it set the franchise back 8 years, and we sure as shit don't want THAT to happen again.

So, pay the man and hope he stays healthy. They can always use LTIR if he does get hurt again, as I say its only money, but if the Mets REALLY want to get over the hump and advance in the postseason, they need deGrom and a few more quality pitchers to even think of becoming a champion. So there is much work to do.

PAY THE MAN WHAT HE'S WORTH!
Let's Go Mets

I can’t deny the rationale you list, especially given Cohen’s limitless pockets. And, to be clear, I always want labour to take as much money from the owners as possible. However, the main problem with overpaying, even when money is no object, is that luxury tax penalties eventually affect drafting. That is, blowing thru the budget year after year will seriously hinder the ability to develop young players and you’ll end up with an old and expensive team. That was always my response to the argument that the Red Sox should have given Mookie a blank cheque. It’s more than just money, it can eventually wreck the farm system.

[weller259]

I can’t deny the rationale you list, especially given Cohen’s limitless pockets. And, to be clear, I always want labour to take as much money from the owners as possible. However, the main problem with overpaying, even when money is no object, is that luxury tax penalties eventually affect drafting. That is, blowing thru the budget year after year will seriously hinder the ability to develop young players and you’ll end up with an old and expensive team. That was always my response to the argument that the Red Sox should have given Mookie a blank cheque. It’s more than just money, it can eventually wreck the farm system.

Yes, the luxury tax payments can be a bit crippling, but it doesn't appear to be hurting, say, the Dodgers, who have spent a shitload of money on players and still have young prospects as well. That kind of situation you mention can be dealt with effectively if your management team is up to snuff. It CAN set you back if not done properly as an organization but I expect Mr. Cohen to have in place a management team capable of such activity. Again, if money is ultimately the issue, I am confident that Mr. Cohen (Uncle Steve as Mets twitter refers to him) will invest the resources necessary to not only have elite talent on the major-league level but also build up the farm system and scouting deparments and establish a continuing cycle of players and draft picks that replenish themselves and the organization. Like the Dodgers have done. Like the Asstros have done. The Mets have a long way to go to get to those levels but they have the right owner to try and accomplish that ultimate goal of being good and relevant every single season.

Edit: adding this .... the new threshold for Luxury tax in MLB was given a name, the Steve Cohen tax. As Steve himself said, he'd rather have a luxury tax named after him than a bridge (usually named after dead people). lol.

[Dr. Medulla]

I can’t deny the rationale you list, especially given Cohen’s limitless pockets. And, to be clear, I always want labour to take as much money from the owners as possible. However, the main problem with overpaying, even when money is no object, is that luxury tax penalties eventually affect drafting. That is, blowing thru the budget year after year will seriously hinder the ability to develop young players and you’ll end up with an old and expensive team. That was always my response to the argument that the Red Sox should have given Mookie a blank cheque. It’s more than just money, it can eventually wreck the farm system.

Yes, the luxury tax payments can be a bit crippling, but it doesn't appear to be hurting, say, the Dodgers, who have spent a shitload of money on players and still have young prospects as well. That kind of situation you mention can be dealt with effectively if your management team is up to snuff. It CAN set you back if not done properly as an organization but I expect Mr. Cohen to have in place a management team capable of such activity. Again, if money is ultimately the issue, I am confident that Mr. Cohen (Uncle Steve as Mets twitter refers to him) will invest the resources necessary to not only have elite talent on the major-league level but also build up the farm system and scouting deparments and establish a continuing cycle of players and draft picks that replenish themselves and the organization. Like the Dodgers have done. Like the Asstros have done. The Mets have a long way to go to get to those levels but they have the right owner to try and accomplish that ultimate goal of being good and relevant every single season.

And I have no idea how the Dodgers are doing it. (To be fair, it's not like I follow them at all.) They hand out mega contracts like candy yet continue to bring up amazing prospects one after another. It'd be irritating if they hadn't regularly underperformed in the postseason.

[weller259]

I can’t deny the rationale you list, especially given Cohen’s limitless pockets. And, to be clear, I always want labour to take as much money from the owners as possible. However, the main problem with overpaying, even when money is no object, is that luxury tax penalties eventually affect drafting. That is, blowing thru the budget year after year will seriously hinder the ability to develop young players and you’ll end up with an old and expensive team. That was always my response to the argument that the Red Sox should have given Mookie a blank cheque. It’s more than just money, it can eventually wreck the farm system.

Yes, the luxury tax payments can be a bit crippling, but it doesn't appear to be hurting, say, the Dodgers, who have spent a shitload of money on players and still have young prospects as well. That kind of situation you mention can be dealt with effectively if your management team is up to snuff. It CAN set you back if not done properly as an organization but I expect Mr. Cohen to have in place a management team capable of such activity. Again, if money is ultimately the issue, I am confident that Mr. Cohen (Uncle Steve as Mets twitter refers to him) will invest the resources necessary to not only have elite talent on the major-league level but also build up the farm system and scouting deparments and establish a continuing cycle of players and draft picks that replenish themselves and the organization. Like the Dodgers have done. Like the Asstros have done. The Mets have a long way to go to get to those levels but they have the right owner to try and accomplish that ultimate goal of being good and relevant every single season.

And I have no idea how the Dodgers are doing it. (To be fair, it's not like I follow them at all.) They hand out mega contracts like candy yet continue to bring up amazing prospects one after another. It'd be irritating if they hadn't regularly underperformed in the postseason.

They do it through hard work, smart decision-making, scouting, trades, they use the entire playbook and they invest resources into their entire operation, all facets working together, and we can see the results in their record. Yes they have been disappointing in the playoffs but playoffs are a crap-shoot anyway, any team that gets hot at the right time can win a short series against any other team, payroll number notwithstanding. To me, their excellence as an organization is through all their work to establish their enterprise with all the tools and resources needed. Making the playoffs every year, contending for division titles every year, having a legitimate chance to win every year. That is what I want the Mets to establish, to be good and relevant every single season.

[Dr. Medulla]

I can’t deny the rationale you list, especially given Cohen’s limitless pockets. And, to be clear, I always want labour to take as much money from the owners as possible. However, the main problem with overpaying, even when money is no object, is that luxury tax penalties eventually affect drafting. That is, blowing thru the budget year after year will seriously hinder the ability to develop young players and you’ll end up with an old and expensive team. That was always my response to the argument that the Red Sox should have given Mookie a blank cheque. It’s more than just money, it can eventually wreck the farm system.

Yes, the luxury tax payments can be a bit crippling, but it doesn't appear to be hurting, say, the Dodgers, who have spent a shitload of money on players and still have young prospects as well. That kind of situation you mention can be dealt with effectively if your management team is up to snuff. It CAN set you back if not done properly as an organization but I expect Mr. Cohen to have in place a management team capable of such activity. Again, if money is ultimately the issue, I am confident that Mr. Cohen (Uncle Steve as Mets twitter refers to him) will invest the resources necessary to not only have elite talent on the major-league level but also build up the farm system and scouting deparments and establish a continuing cycle of players and draft picks that replenish themselves and the organization. Like the Dodgers have done. Like the Asstros have done. The Mets have a long way to go to get to those levels but they have the right owner to try and accomplish that ultimate goal of being good and relevant every single season.

And I have no idea how the Dodgers are doing it. (To be fair, it's not like I follow them at all.) They hand out mega contracts like candy yet continue to bring up amazing prospects one after another. It'd be irritating if they hadn't regularly underperformed in the postseason.

They do it through hard work, smart decision-making, scouting, trades, they use the entire playbook and they invest resources into their entire operation, all facets working together, and we can see the results in their record. Yes they have been disappointing in the playoffs but playoffs are a crap-shoot anyway, any team that gets hot at the right time can win a short series against any other team, payroll number notwithstanding. To me, their excellence as an organization is through all their work to establish their enterprise with all the tools and resources needed. Making the playoffs every year, contending for division titles every year, having a legitimate chance to win every year. That is what I want the Mets to establish, to be good and relevant every single season.

Oh yeah, of course. It's bullshit to consider the Braves under Bobby Cox as a failure because they won only one title. They were a machine that just rolled into the postseason year after year. But it's clearly not easy to do. We can say, yeah, here's how to do it, but Christ on a bike, it's like the Dodgers do nothing but buy winning lottery tickets. Develop great new guys, trade for stars, sign stars—it shouldn't seem so damned easy.

[Dr. Medulla]

Off-season, MLB Network is constantly showing Ken Burns' Baseball, and I'll flip by and figure, okay, I'll watch 15 minutes. Two hours later …

[Mimi]

Off-season, MLB Network is constantly showing Ken Burns' Baseball, and I'll flip by and figure, okay, I'll watch 15 minutes. Two hours later …

I tried so hard to watch that but gave up after a few episodes. Why does he have to drag everything out?

[Dr. Medulla]

Off-season, MLB Network is constantly showing Ken Burns' Baseball, and I'll flip by and figure, okay, I'll watch 15 minutes. Two hours later …

I tried so hard to watch that but gave up after a few episodes. Why does he have to drag everything out?

I go the other way. I want more. I'll sometimes think, meh, not that interested in the 1910s and then, dang, there's a whole lot going on there. Or the 1930s—just some great stories. It's all so damned romantic—which normally grates on me as a historian—and it works.