The most important Americans of the past 75 years

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revbob
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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years

Post by revbob »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Dec 2022, 12:23pm
Flex wrote:
02 Dec 2022, 11:45am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Dec 2022, 9:36am
For what it's worth, I gave my list to my students and picked Hefner, Nixon, Manson, and Malcolm X, and then said either Friedman or Clinton (she represents both the gutted yet predominant form of faux feminism that emerged from 2nd wave struggles, but is also, ironically, the face of those who despise real feminism). I'm not super in love with either of those, but whatever.

One student pointed out that my picks weren't all the admirable people, to which I said, well, I guess you have some insight into my view of American history as a whole. Ended up being not a bad exercise for me to engage in.
What admirable figures would your students have suggested, you think? I can think of some cultural figures, but I'm not sure I can think of a single economic or political figure in American history who is consider both top 5 influential AND admirable.
Were I to guess, Obama would have been regarded as significant and admirable. Maybe Steve Jobs gets raised as a possibility? JFK? Students are mostly wishy-washy liberals, some leaning a bit right, some left, but generally pretty centrist.

One thing that kind of surprised me is that when I raised Hillary Clinton and declared her a debased form of feminism, I noticed the women in the room nodding. That gave me a bit of an internal smile.
So not "With Her".

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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years

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revbob wrote:
02 Dec 2022, 12:51pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Dec 2022, 12:23pm
Flex wrote:
02 Dec 2022, 11:45am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Dec 2022, 9:36am
For what it's worth, I gave my list to my students and picked Hefner, Nixon, Manson, and Malcolm X, and then said either Friedman or Clinton (she represents both the gutted yet predominant form of faux feminism that emerged from 2nd wave struggles, but is also, ironically, the face of those who despise real feminism). I'm not super in love with either of those, but whatever.

One student pointed out that my picks weren't all the admirable people, to which I said, well, I guess you have some insight into my view of American history as a whole. Ended up being not a bad exercise for me to engage in.
What admirable figures would your students have suggested, you think? I can think of some cultural figures, but I'm not sure I can think of a single economic or political figure in American history who is consider both top 5 influential AND admirable.
Were I to guess, Obama would have been regarded as significant and admirable. Maybe Steve Jobs gets raised as a possibility? JFK? Students are mostly wishy-washy liberals, some leaning a bit right, some left, but generally pretty centrist.

One thing that kind of surprised me is that when I raised Hillary Clinton and declared her a debased form of feminism, I noticed the women in the room nodding. That gave me a bit of an internal smile.
So not "With Her".
Nahhhhh queen.
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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years

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As much as I hate saying this, I think we may have to consider Kanye. He is almost singlehandedly making antisemitism fashionable again - he has certainly paved the way for people to come out of the woodwork.
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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years

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JennyB wrote:
02 Dec 2022, 1:05pm
As much as I hate saying this, I think we may have to consider Kanye. He is almost singlehandedly making antisemitism fashionable again - he has certainly paved the way for people to come out of the woodwork.
X(

A month ago I may not have agreed with this but it's gotten really shockingly bad really fast. The kindling was always there, but Ye really set fire to the whole fucking thing.
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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years

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Flex wrote:
02 Dec 2022, 1:16pm
JennyB wrote:
02 Dec 2022, 1:05pm
As much as I hate saying this, I think we may have to consider Kanye. He is almost singlehandedly making antisemitism fashionable again - he has certainly paved the way for people to come out of the woodwork.
X(

A month ago I may not have agreed with this but it's gotten really shockingly bad really fast. The kindling was always there, but Ye really set fire to the whole fucking thing.
Unfortunately, yeah, he merits consideration for the 21st c list.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years

Post by motorsmell »

3 important Americans

The Rza
He rejuvenated Hip-hop and brought it back to a punk rock street level

Hunter s Thompson
Gave American culture the kick in the nuts/appreciation it needed/deserves and never compromised his life style or beliefs.

GG Allin
He made it impossible for any shock rock/punk/metal whatever band to claim they aren't posers...not a role model except in the way he did whatever he felt like whenever he wanted be that good or more likely very bad

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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years

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JennyB wrote:
02 Dec 2022, 1:05pm
As much as I hate saying this, I think we may have to consider Kanye. He is almost singlehandedly making antisemitism fashionable again - he has certainly paved the way for people to come out of the woodwork.
Was his outspokenness made possible by Trump's initial emboldening of racists of all kinds, or was he already on this path pre-2016? Maybe they come as like a package duo or something.
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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years

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Kory wrote:
02 Dec 2022, 3:09pm
JennyB wrote:
02 Dec 2022, 1:05pm
As much as I hate saying this, I think we may have to consider Kanye. He is almost singlehandedly making antisemitism fashionable again - he has certainly paved the way for people to come out of the woodwork.
Was his outspokenness made possible by Trump's initial emboldening of racists of all kinds, or was he already on this path pre-2016? Maybe they come as like a package duo or something.
Kanye peaked with "George Bush hates black people". That was his greatest moment ever. It was always gonna be downhill from there.

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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years

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revbob wrote:
02 Dec 2022, 5:12pm
Kory wrote:
02 Dec 2022, 3:09pm
JennyB wrote:
02 Dec 2022, 1:05pm
As much as I hate saying this, I think we may have to consider Kanye. He is almost singlehandedly making antisemitism fashionable again - he has certainly paved the way for people to come out of the woodwork.
Was his outspokenness made possible by Trump's initial emboldening of racists of all kinds, or was he already on this path pre-2016? Maybe they come as like a package duo or something.
Kanye peaked with "George Bush hates black people". That was his greatest moment ever. It was always gonna be downhill from there.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years

Post by JennyB »

Kory wrote:
02 Dec 2022, 3:09pm
JennyB wrote:
02 Dec 2022, 1:05pm
As much as I hate saying this, I think we may have to consider Kanye. He is almost singlehandedly making antisemitism fashionable again - he has certainly paved the way for people to come out of the woodwork.
Was his outspokenness made possible by Trump's initial emboldening of racists of all kinds, or was he already on this path pre-2016? Maybe they come as like a package duo or something.
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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years

Post by JennyB »

Flex wrote:
02 Dec 2022, 1:16pm
JennyB wrote:
02 Dec 2022, 1:05pm
As much as I hate saying this, I think we may have to consider Kanye. He is almost singlehandedly making antisemitism fashionable again - he has certainly paved the way for people to come out of the woodwork.
X(

A month ago I may not have agreed with this but it's gotten really shockingly bad really fast. The kindling was always there, but Ye really set fire to the whole fucking thing.
When Alex Jones is the reasonable person in you conversation, you know it's really gone to shit.
Got a Rake? Sure!

IMCT: Inane Middle-Class Twats - Dr. M

" *sigh* it's right when they throw the penis pump out the window." -Hoy

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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years

Post by Howard Beale »

Since it has been established that "important" here just means "consequential" and not necessarily "good"—I think a strong case could be made for Bill Cosby. His rise as a comic coincided with the shift from vaudevillian joke-telling to the kind of observational riffing on society and everyday life that would eventually lead to standup comedians being viewed as modern-day philosophers/truth-tellers; he would be the primary inspiration to several generations of some of the most influential and successful comedians to come after him, from Richard Pryor to Jerry Seinfeld to fellow sexpest Louis CK. That his act was clean gave him the broadest appeal possible, casting a wider influence than, say, a Lenny Bruce. With his comedy being focused on the universal and relatable (i.e., stories from childhood, raising a family), as well as his I Spy fame, he was able to transcend race with white audiences (the "I'm not black, I'm OJ!" effect).

While not generally thought of as someone who was a prominent face of the Civil Rights movement, Cosby did make some significant contributions—besides his general acceptance by a white audience due to his relatability, he was instrumental in integrating black stuntmen into the film industry and he hosted a CBS special about black history at the height of his I Spy fame. In the '60s, he became among the first African American advertising spokespeople, and by the '80s had become one of the most ubiquitous faces on TV screens across the country as pitchman for a slew of major corporate brands. Not only did he have the hit sitcom for most of the decade, but for a black man to be seen as "America's Dad"—even by most white people—less than 20 years out from the Civil Rights era is a pretty staggering achievement.

In the early 2000s, Cosby unexpectedly came to the forefront of the culture wars that now—exhaustingly—dominate every aspect of the American experience when conservative media rushed to claim him as their own after his get-off-my-lawn ramblings about how young black men are all criminals who need to pull their pants up. And, of course, in the end, we all finally found out what a monster he actually was the entire time, presaging (and arguably serving as the spark for) the #Metoo movement of a few years later.

Few figures in American life have worn more cultural hats over the course of six decades.
Dr. Medulla wrote:
30 Nov 2022, 4:06pm
Okay, last week my seminar discussed a book about Hugh Hefner and Playboy, and I made the comment that I think Hefner is one of the five most important people of the past 75 years. Importantly, that's not necessarily a compliment, only a comment about his widespread significance; Hefner represents a deliberate effort to normalize consumption and hedonism in American life.
Flex wrote:
30 Nov 2022, 4:25pm
Okay, after just a gut minute or two think, I'll propose Bing Crosby. He's important for two things, particularly: 1) he almost singularly invented the way singers sing into microphones, understanding that new microphone technology allowed him to sing in a more intimate, lower volume way into the mic creating intimacy between the singer and the listener. His innovation in that regard finally moved popular performed music away from its vaudville roots and into the modern art form of "popular music" as we basically understand it. Secondly, Bing was an early adapter and investor in magnetic tape and understood the importance of recording music in a way that wasn't really contemplated at the time. Like with his understanding of the microphone, his pursuit of new technology to create clean, durable audio recordings helped form the basis of the recording industry as we know it.

For those two reasons - his incredibly impressive vision for using burgeoning technology, essentially, much more than what he actually recorded himself - I think he had a foundational impact on american music, which is in turn one of out greatest cultural contributions and influences (for good or ill) on the world.
Bing Crosby is a great suggestion, Flex, and being the first multimedia star, I think he supersedes some of the other suggestions here, as he was the first to really attain that level of fame and would pave the way for the kind of ultra-fame later to be experienced by Sinatra, Elvis, the Beatles and Michael Jackson. As for the recording innovations, I'd say Les Paul deserves an honorable mention as well.

Alfred Kinsey could maybe even supplant Hugh Hefner, as both influenced the Sexual Revolution, but Hefner's influence was purely in the culture, Kinsey's spanned both culture and academia.
Flex wrote:
01 Dec 2022, 12:49pm
I dunno if I'd really nominate him, but how about Henry Kissinger for an honorable mention (if he qualifies, born in Germany but became a U.S. citizen). Besides being an actual advisor to essentially every president since he came into favor, his vision of realpolitik guided American foreign policy as its dominant outlook until at least the dissolution of the Soviet Union, and has been a key strand of it ever since, impacting essentially incalculable numbers of people on this planet (mostly for ill, I'd editorialize). He wasn't the only purveyor of realpolitik, obviously, but he seems to be its primary architect in the American context.
Another good suggestion, but I'd nominate George Kennan instead, as his philosophy of containment set the course for decades of America's Cold War strategy and created the proxy conflicts in Southeast Asia that Kissinger would preside over in the first place.
JennyB wrote:
02 Dec 2022, 1:05pm
As much as I hate saying this, I think we may have to consider Kanye. He is almost singlehandedly making antisemitism fashionable again - he has certainly paved the way for people to come out of the woodwork.
Mel Gibson has gotta be pissed that a black guy has usurped his throne.

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