The most important Americans of the past 75 years
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Silent Majority
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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years
Alright, let's nominate someone from the last 20 years. I don't actually think he'd necessarily crack the top 5 but for devil's advocacy how about Kevin Feige who's steered the Marvel Cinematic Universe since its inception? He's defined popular culture through its massive success and redefinition of corporate synergy and, if we believe the likes of grumpy Alan Moore, had a big part in the infantilisation of the wider political conversation and rise in simple minded fascism.
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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years
I always push back (a bit, anyway) on Elvis because in many respects he was entirely conventional and conservative. That is, I take the fans as far more radical than Elvis himself, as he was very happy to tone shit down as much as handlers wanted him to. He was a very pliable guy who was an entertainer. And for an inner-circle argument, someone so non-purposeful in creating social or cultural change should be out of the running.WestwayKid wrote: ↑01 Dec 2022, 1:21pmNo worries !Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑01 Dec 2022, 12:08pmMy apologies if I came off as a jerk, but I also the think the bar is higher with the more “obvious” answers. Elvis is important, but is he important in ways that go on for decades in ways that others don’t? The exercise is trickier than it first appears, I think.WestwayKid wrote: ↑01 Dec 2022, 11:34amMan, you're making me think this early on a cold morning .Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑01 Dec 2022, 11:21amOkay, I'm being the asshole professor here (seriously, sorry!), but what does he change and how? What exactly does he do to normalize behaviour or perspective in ways that others haven't? Just saying he changed everything is expecting your reader to fill in the blanks for you.WestwayKid wrote: ↑01 Dec 2022, 10:51am
He forever changed American pop culture. He was counter culture before counter culture was a thing. When he first appeared, he was unlike anything most people had ever seen, and was a direct influence on everyone from John Lennon and Paul McCartney to Joe Strummer . He opened doors, stripped away cultural barriers, opened eyes. He changed everything: music, language, style. Lennon once said that before Elvis there was nothing and he's right. Sure, maybe someone else would have come along to make that cultural change, but then again - maybe he was the only person who could have done what he did, but his presence changed the world forever.
Seriously, though, let me give it some thought.
I've been kicking this around in my head for a few hours. It seems part of the question of Elvis is what was there before him? He did not invent rock music. He also wasn't the first teen idol. He actually came to mind because we started watching the new Elvis biopic last night and I spent last week in Memphis. So, if he didn't invent rock music, what did he add to the genre? I think he helped bring the genre into the public sphere. It's not as easy as saying he helped shine a light on what had been primarily an African-American thing, because rock was more than just rhythm & blues, but I think he was the guy who bridged the rhythm & blues & country model that became what we know as rock & roll. In regards to the teen idol thing, I don't know enough about early Sinatra. Did he generate the level of mania (and fear) that Elvis did? I feel like Elvis challenged some very entrenched social mores around race, sexuality, masculinity, style. Again, I don't know enough about Sinatra to be able to say he did that in the way that Elvis did.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years
For 21st c stuff, yeah, I’d give Feige serious consideration.Silent Majority wrote: ↑01 Dec 2022, 1:31pmAlright, let's nominate someone from the last 20 years. I don't actually think he'd necessarily crack the top 5 but for devil's advocacy how about Kevin Feige who's steered the Marvel Cinematic Universe since its inception? He's defined popular culture through its massive success and redefinition of corporate synergy and, if we believe the likes of grumpy Alan Moore, had a big part in the infantilisation of the wider political conversation and rise in simple minded fascism.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years
I thought of Kissinger, too, as he was a key and transhistorical figure of America’s post-45 foreign policy. My own disinterest in foreign policy as an intellectual field, tho, would keep him out of the top 5 for me.Flex wrote: ↑01 Dec 2022, 12:49pmYeah, Frank definitely started out as a Teen Idol. I think that was a distinction between him and Bing from just a few years earlier, frankly.
I dunno if I'd really nominate him, but how about Henry Kissinger for an honorable mention (if he qualifies, born in Germany but became a U.S. citizen). Besides being an actual advisor to essentially every president since he came into favor, his vision of realpolitik guided American foreign policy as its dominant outlook until at least the dissolution of the Soviet Union, and has been a key strand of it ever since, impacting essentially incalculable numbers of people on this planet (mostly for ill, I'd editorialize). He wasn't the only purveyor of realpolitik, obviously, but he seems to be its primary architect in the American context.
Addendum: Somewhat cynically, I'd similarly consider FDR for essentially co-opting labor from socialism and securing a capitalist future for America and setting us on our current, as of yet unbroken, path. The alpha to what the optimist might consider to be Ian Mackaye's omega.
For US presidents in the 20th c, there’s FDR and Reagan. Everyone else is swimming in their wake or setting them up for their pivotal role.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years
Elvis popularized Colorado's own banana, bacon and peanut butter sandwich. That's gotta count for something.
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Wiggle - you can raise the dead
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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years
He also, posthumously, popularized the sport of teenage girls wrestling in white panties. That, too, counts for something.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years
I thought she was Welsh until recently. Has that twang to her voice.revbob wrote: ↑01 Dec 2022, 12:03pmIm supposed to know this?Marky Dread wrote: ↑01 Dec 2022, 10:48amSurely my Garth Brooks suggestion further up trumps both Elvis and Adele.
A: because Garth has outsold Elvis
B: Adele is English
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board
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Silent Majority
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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years
Adele's from my town. Her accent can make me pleasantly homesick.
Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years
I don't think Sinatra mixed black and white styles in the way Elvis did. I'd nominate Sam Phillips though for recognizing the potential in that.
Who pfaffed the pfaff? Who got pfaffed tonight?
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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years
For what it's worth, I gave my list to my students and picked Hefner, Nixon, Manson, and Malcolm X, and then said either Friedman or Clinton (she represents both the gutted yet predominant form of faux feminism that emerged from 2nd wave struggles, but is also, ironically, the face of those who despise real feminism). I'm not super in love with either of those, but whatever.
One student pointed out that my picks weren't all the admirable people, to which I said, well, I guess you have some insight into my view of American history as a whole. Ended up being not a bad exercise for me to engage in.
One student pointed out that my picks weren't all the admirable people, to which I said, well, I guess you have some insight into my view of American history as a whole. Ended up being not a bad exercise for me to engage in.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years
My son and I had one at Graceland last week. It was excellent. Mine was sans bacon, however.
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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years
This is a good point. He was very non-purposeful and quite absent from any real commentary regarding what was going on in the world in the 1960's and 70's.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑01 Dec 2022, 2:02pmI always push back (a bit, anyway) on Elvis because in many respects he was entirely conventional and conservative. That is, I take the fans as far more radical than Elvis himself, as he was very happy to tone shit down as much as handlers wanted him to. He was a very pliable guy who was an entertainer. And for an inner-circle argument, someone so non-purposeful in creating social or cultural change should be out of the running.WestwayKid wrote: ↑01 Dec 2022, 1:21pmNo worries !Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑01 Dec 2022, 12:08pmMy apologies if I came off as a jerk, but I also the think the bar is higher with the more “obvious” answers. Elvis is important, but is he important in ways that go on for decades in ways that others don’t? The exercise is trickier than it first appears, I think.WestwayKid wrote: ↑01 Dec 2022, 11:34amMan, you're making me think this early on a cold morning .Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑01 Dec 2022, 11:21am
Okay, I'm being the asshole professor here (seriously, sorry!), but what does he change and how? What exactly does he do to normalize behaviour or perspective in ways that others haven't? Just saying he changed everything is expecting your reader to fill in the blanks for you.
Seriously, though, let me give it some thought.
I've been kicking this around in my head for a few hours. It seems part of the question of Elvis is what was there before him? He did not invent rock music. He also wasn't the first teen idol. He actually came to mind because we started watching the new Elvis biopic last night and I spent last week in Memphis. So, if he didn't invent rock music, what did he add to the genre? I think he helped bring the genre into the public sphere. It's not as easy as saying he helped shine a light on what had been primarily an African-American thing, because rock was more than just rhythm & blues, but I think he was the guy who bridged the rhythm & blues & country model that became what we know as rock & roll. In regards to the teen idol thing, I don't know enough about early Sinatra. Did he generate the level of mania (and fear) that Elvis did? I feel like Elvis challenged some very entrenched social mores around race, sexuality, masculinity, style. Again, I don't know enough about Sinatra to be able to say he did that in the way that Elvis did.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble
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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years
And what observations he did offer about what was happening on the streets and in music in the 60s and 70s leaned distinctly to the right. Which isn't to make him as some reactionary bigot, mind you, only that if he sparked a social revolution (or at least was a significant part of the spark), he wasn't inclined to see it as credit.WestwayKid wrote: ↑02 Dec 2022, 10:47amThis is a good point. He was very non-purposeful and quite absent from any real commentary regarding what was going on in the world in the 1960's and 70's.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years
What admirable figures would your students have suggested, you think? I can think of some cultural figures, but I'm not sure I can think of a single economic or political figure in American history who is consider both top 5 influential AND admirable.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Dec 2022, 9:36amFor what it's worth, I gave my list to my students and picked Hefner, Nixon, Manson, and Malcolm X, and then said either Friedman or Clinton (she represents both the gutted yet predominant form of faux feminism that emerged from 2nd wave struggles, but is also, ironically, the face of those who despise real feminism). I'm not super in love with either of those, but whatever.
One student pointed out that my picks weren't all the admirable people, to which I said, well, I guess you have some insight into my view of American history as a whole. Ended up being not a bad exercise for me to engage in.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: The most important Americans of the past 75 years
Were I to guess, Obama would have been regarded as significant and admirable. Maybe Steve Jobs gets raised as a possibility? JFK? Students are mostly wishy-washy liberals, some leaning a bit right, some left, but generally pretty centrist.Flex wrote: ↑02 Dec 2022, 11:45amWhat admirable figures would your students have suggested, you think? I can think of some cultural figures, but I'm not sure I can think of a single economic or political figure in American history who is consider both top 5 influential AND admirable.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Dec 2022, 9:36amFor what it's worth, I gave my list to my students and picked Hefner, Nixon, Manson, and Malcolm X, and then said either Friedman or Clinton (she represents both the gutted yet predominant form of faux feminism that emerged from 2nd wave struggles, but is also, ironically, the face of those who despise real feminism). I'm not super in love with either of those, but whatever.
One student pointed out that my picks weren't all the admirable people, to which I said, well, I guess you have some insight into my view of American history as a whole. Ended up being not a bad exercise for me to engage in.
One thing that kind of surprised me is that when I raised Hillary Clinton and declared her a debased form of feminism, I noticed the women in the room nodding. That gave me a bit of an internal smile.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft