Yes, I agree, an artist doesn't necessarily have to suffer, it's just as a writer manque, the notion carries some small crumb of comfort! Half a page a day seems pretty productive to me, if you consistently managed 3 pages a week you'd have a proper sized book in two years give or take, including revision. I'd be well happy with that if I could manage it.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑30 Nov 2022, 7:52pmI don't buy the idea that an artist *must* suffer, but it is hard work. If it isn't hard, it likely isn't very good. And it should be treated as work, not waiting for inspiration. Stephen King famously said that he wrote every day except the Fourth of July, Christmas, and his birthday, but then admitted that he actually writes on those days, too. He said of those writers who take years between books that there's a lot of jerkin' off going on. When I was writing my dissertation, I took that to heart and made sure I wrote at least 1000 words every day, except for when I was in rewrite mode. Plenty of shitty days in there, but if there was half a page of decent stuff there, that was half a page more than I had the previous day. God but those were miserable times.Low Down Low wrote: ↑30 Nov 2022, 7:44pmIt's an extreme example but I always think of Joyce, labouring over every sentence, every dot and comma in Ulysses for 10 years, to the point of near total blindness. Like I said, i understand authors can be prolific, but whenever I hear one say, oh this book came very easily to me or I wrote it in 6 weeks or 6 months or whatever, I'm already instantly suspicious. I prefer the idea of toil and suffering, Yeats's "we must labour to be beautiful." It's there in Nabokov too, I think.
Whatcha reading?
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Low Down Low
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Re: Whatcha reading?
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Re: Whatcha reading?
That's the thing—it's a grind. I told other grad students that 1000 words a day (3–4 pages) results in a draft in a surprisingly short amount of time. You don't get shit right on the first draft, you just get stuff down. That was the biggest thing I had to teach myself. I always want to get things as close to right the first time around, and that just encourages getting hung up on stuff that doesn't matter at that moment. The Boss taught me the importance of just writing and including as much relevant research the first time, and then you start shaping things. It was humbling unlearning in that way, but it was the right thing.Low Down Low wrote: ↑30 Nov 2022, 8:20pmYes, I agree, an artist doesn't necessarily have to suffer, it's just as a writer manque, the notion carries some small crumb of comfort! Half a page a day seems pretty productive to me, if you consistently managed 3 pages a week you'd have a proper sized book in two years give or take, including revision. I'd be well happy with that if I could manage it.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑30 Nov 2022, 7:52pmI don't buy the idea that an artist *must* suffer, but it is hard work. If it isn't hard, it likely isn't very good. And it should be treated as work, not waiting for inspiration. Stephen King famously said that he wrote every day except the Fourth of July, Christmas, and his birthday, but then admitted that he actually writes on those days, too. He said of those writers who take years between books that there's a lot of jerkin' off going on. When I was writing my dissertation, I took that to heart and made sure I wrote at least 1000 words every day, except for when I was in rewrite mode. Plenty of shitty days in there, but if there was half a page of decent stuff there, that was half a page more than I had the previous day. God but those were miserable times.Low Down Low wrote: ↑30 Nov 2022, 7:44pmIt's an extreme example but I always think of Joyce, labouring over every sentence, every dot and comma in Ulysses for 10 years, to the point of near total blindness. Like I said, i understand authors can be prolific, but whenever I hear one say, oh this book came very easily to me or I wrote it in 6 weeks or 6 months or whatever, I'm already instantly suspicious. I prefer the idea of toil and suffering, Yeats's "we must labour to be beautiful." It's there in Nabokov too, I think.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: Whatcha reading?
Yeah, the writer of that article's missed the fact that your first draft is supposed to be soul destroyingly awful shit. Then you spend the rest of the process making it better.
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Re: Whatcha reading?
What is normally called writing is a misnomer; "real" writing is rewriting or editing. It's far more sausage-making than fine art.Silent Majority wrote: ↑01 Dec 2022, 2:49amYeah, the writer of that article's missed the fact that your first draft is supposed to be soul destroyingly awful shit. Then you spend the rest of the process making it better.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: Whatcha reading?
Got delivered today so it's shot up the pile. Woke up with a new Ligotti.eumaas wrote: ↑21 Nov 2022, 11:04amHad read him years ago but I recently read all of his stories. Good stuff. You should try Ligotti too—not quite in the same space as James and Aickman but some of the stories are very good.Silent Majority wrote: ↑21 Nov 2022, 6:11amOh yeah, very much enjoying this. So in the same field as MR James.eumaas wrote: ↑08 Nov 2022, 9:27amHave you read Aickman?Silent Majority wrote: ↑08 Nov 2022, 12:35am125) The Empty House and Other Stories - Algernon Blackwood. Audiobook. 1923. These didn't make much of an impression, nice atmospheres, decent spot to hang out, I remember nothing about it a week or so later.
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Re: Whatcha reading?
Tub book:
Zoe Howe, Typical Girls?. Like most popular history, it's celebratory rather than analytical in any way. But I'm with it because the Slits were awesome.
Speaking of celebratory books, the one on rock n roll in the early 60s is one of those tedious Boomers-celebrating-the-music-of-their-youth accounts. I thought that because it's written by an academic there'd be a bit more rigour, but there's lots of chart positions, sales figures, and confirmation that the music changed America for the good because … it just did. Hoped I might be able to assign it next year, but, no, that ain't happening. Still, if you just want a narrative of American rock n roll between the day the music died and the Beatles, sure, it's got plenty of shit in there.
Zoe Howe, Typical Girls?. Like most popular history, it's celebratory rather than analytical in any way. But I'm with it because the Slits were awesome.
Speaking of celebratory books, the one on rock n roll in the early 60s is one of those tedious Boomers-celebrating-the-music-of-their-youth accounts. I thought that because it's written by an academic there'd be a bit more rigour, but there's lots of chart positions, sales figures, and confirmation that the music changed America for the good because … it just did. Hoped I might be able to assign it next year, but, no, that ain't happening. Still, if you just want a narrative of American rock n roll between the day the music died and the Beatles, sure, it's got plenty of shit in there.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Silent Majority
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Re: Whatcha reading?
Loved Viv's books, does it add much to the story beyond her contributions?
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Re: Whatcha reading?
I'm about a third of the way in and, so far, no, it's not notably revelatory versus more general punk histories. Sure, more details and anecdotes and all that, but nothing that truly sparks the imagination. I guess one curious bit is that Joe doesn't come off too well, portrayed as a meddler and lobbying to get the original guitarist booted.Silent Majority wrote: ↑08 Dec 2022, 5:17amLoved Viv's books, does it add much to the story beyond her contributions?
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: Whatcha reading?
That hasn't really come up as part of his character in the past. Weird enough to lead me to disbelieve it.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑08 Dec 2022, 7:32amI'm about a third of the way in and, so far, no, it's not notably revelatory versus more general punk histories. Sure, more details and anecdotes and all that, but nothing that truly sparks the imagination. I guess one curious bit is that Joe doesn't come off too well, portrayed as a meddler and lobbying to get the original guitarist booted.Silent Majority wrote: ↑08 Dec 2022, 5:17amLoved Viv's books, does it add much to the story beyond her contributions?
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Re: Whatcha reading?
I'm a bit more accepting of the possibility just because in the heady days of early 1977, there was so much energy and zeal and expectation of being properly committed to punk. That makes it easy to start judging others, especially when you've so fully converted yourself. So it's a maybe for me.Silent Majority wrote: ↑08 Dec 2022, 7:36amThat hasn't really come up as part of his character in the past. Weird enough to lead me to disbelieve it.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑08 Dec 2022, 7:32amI'm about a third of the way in and, so far, no, it's not notably revelatory versus more general punk histories. Sure, more details and anecdotes and all that, but nothing that truly sparks the imagination. I guess one curious bit is that Joe doesn't come off too well, portrayed as a meddler and lobbying to get the original guitarist booted.Silent Majority wrote: ↑08 Dec 2022, 5:17amLoved Viv's books, does it add much to the story beyond her contributions?
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Silent Majority
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Re: Whatcha reading?
True - '77 Joe was at his 2nd least true to himself after '84 Joe.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑08 Dec 2022, 8:29amI'm a bit more accepting of the possibility just because in the heady days of early 1977, there was so much energy and zeal and expectation of being properly committed to punk. That makes it easy to start judging others, especially when you've so fully converted yourself. So it's a maybe for me.Silent Majority wrote: ↑08 Dec 2022, 7:36amThat hasn't really come up as part of his character in the past. Weird enough to lead me to disbelieve it.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑08 Dec 2022, 7:32amI'm about a third of the way in and, so far, no, it's not notably revelatory versus more general punk histories. Sure, more details and anecdotes and all that, but nothing that truly sparks the imagination. I guess one curious bit is that Joe doesn't come off too well, portrayed as a meddler and lobbying to get the original guitarist booted.Silent Majority wrote: ↑08 Dec 2022, 5:17amLoved Viv's books, does it add much to the story beyond her contributions?
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Re: Whatcha reading?
145) The Unsettled Dust - Robert Aickman. Audiobook read by Reece Shearsmith. Collected 1990. Perfectly unsettling. He wrote like Flannery O'Connor in a Gothic middle England townhouse.
146) Ghost Stories - E. F. Benson. Audiobook.With the paperback in my hand, I could hear nothing but the strong gales from outside. I was in the living room of my house (which is over one hundred and twenty years old) wrapped in a blanket against the cold, hearing the occasional unexplained noise from near and far away. My chimney made sounds like howls and these vibrant stories cast a creeping spell on me, an entirely immersive atmosphere which ticked up in cultured, sweet tension. I grinned from ear to ear then hastened to bed. There were some brilliantly creepy stories in here, I loved the hell out of them. This collection was introduced and selected by Mark Gatiss.
146) Ghost Stories - E. F. Benson. Audiobook.With the paperback in my hand, I could hear nothing but the strong gales from outside. I was in the living room of my house (which is over one hundred and twenty years old) wrapped in a blanket against the cold, hearing the occasional unexplained noise from near and far away. My chimney made sounds like howls and these vibrant stories cast a creeping spell on me, an entirely immersive atmosphere which ticked up in cultured, sweet tension. I grinned from ear to ear then hastened to bed. There were some brilliantly creepy stories in here, I loved the hell out of them. This collection was introduced and selected by Mark Gatiss.
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Re: Whatcha reading?
I've gone from hope to meh to hate-listening this book on early 60s rock n roll. The turning point? At the end of a chapter on the Beach Boys, the author makes reference to a song off That's Why God Made the Radio, "Summer's Gone." The author describes it as an awareness by the band and its Boomer's audience of growing old and being nostalgic for a time when they and America were innocent. Fucking really? An America that was guilty of slavery and segregation, attempted genocide of indigenous people, and of using nuclear weapons was innocent but over the next fifty years it became stained? Fucking Boomer masturbation over its adolescence. I want to kick the author in his decaying nuts.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: Whatcha reading?
Summers Gone describes Summer in Paradise going out of printDr. Medulla wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 7:40pmI've gone from hope to meh to hate-listening this book on early 60s rock n roll. The turning point? At the end of a chapter on the Beach Boys, the author makes reference to a song off That's Why God Made the Radio, "Summer's Gone." The author describes it as an awareness by the band and its Boomer's audience of growing old and being nostalgic for a time when they and America were innocent. Fucking really? An America that was guilty of slavery and segregation, attempted genocide of indigenous people, and of using nuclear weapons was innocent but over the next fifty years it became stained? Fucking Boomer masturbation over its adolescence. I want to kick the author in his decaying nuts.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
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Re: Whatcha reading?
Does it include Mike's wails of injustice?Flex wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 7:52pmSummers Gone describes Summer in Paradise going out of printDr. Medulla wrote: ↑10 Dec 2022, 7:40pmI've gone from hope to meh to hate-listening this book on early 60s rock n roll. The turning point? At the end of a chapter on the Beach Boys, the author makes reference to a song off That's Why God Made the Radio, "Summer's Gone." The author describes it as an awareness by the band and its Boomer's audience of growing old and being nostalgic for a time when they and America were innocent. Fucking really? An America that was guilty of slavery and segregation, attempted genocide of indigenous people, and of using nuclear weapons was innocent but over the next fifty years it became stained? Fucking Boomer masturbation over its adolescence. I want to kick the author in his decaying nuts.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft