Page 310 of 421
Re: Whatcha reading?
Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 9:54am
by revbob
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 7:13pm
...
Starting tomorrow:
Never heard of this story before (it happened in, I believe, 1981), but I have a side interest in 60s/70s anti-government radicalism, so I'm quite curious about this.
Looks like an interesting read.
Have you read any of the books on COINTELPRO ?
Ward Churchill and Jim Vanderwall did a couple together I think. Read them years ago pretty informative reads.
Re: Whatcha reading?
Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 11:09am
by Dr. Medulla
revbob wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 9:54am
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 7:13pm
...
Starting tomorrow:
Never heard of this story before (it happened in, I believe, 1981), but I have a side interest in 60s/70s anti-government radicalism, so I'm quite curious about this.
Looks like an interesting read.
Have you read any of the books on COINTELPRO ?
Ward Churchill and Jim Vanderwall did a couple together I think. Read them years ago pretty informative reads.
Nothing specific, but stuff on COINTELPRO has shown up in books on 60s/70s radicalism. I'm always struck by what a mixed bag counterintelligence and ratfuckery was. Devious enough to sabotage and infiltrate, sow internal suspicion and destabilize govts, but full of ineptitude and flaky schemes. Should we be scared or contemptuous? Overthrow Salvador Allende but try to make Castro's beard fall out to lead to internal revolt?
I'm about two-thirds thru the book. It's okay, but most of the content is a rehash of Weatherman stuff and the like. I like Bryan Burrough's
Days of Rage more for a comprehensive telling of this stuff.
Re: Whatcha reading?
Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 11:13am
by Silent Majority
44) The Army of the Republic - Stuart Archer Cohen. Paperback. 2008. A good thriller about America on the edge of revolution, with leftist activists facing off against an increasingly fascist regime. Well researched and singing with a ring of truth - the whole story is more plausible in 2020 than it was when written. I recommend it, despite some occasionally clunky dialogue. The book's at its best when dealing with the various secret cells of insurgency.
Re: Whatcha reading?
Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 1:06pm
by revbob
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 11:09am
revbob wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 9:54am
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 7:13pm
...
Starting tomorrow:
Never heard of this story before (it happened in, I believe, 1981), but I have a side interest in 60s/70s anti-government radicalism, so I'm quite curious about this.
Looks like an interesting read.
Have you read any of the books on COINTELPRO ?
Ward Churchill and Jim Vanderwall did a couple together I think. Read them years ago pretty informative reads.
Nothing specific, but stuff on COINTELPRO has shown up in books on 60s/70s radicalism. I'm always struck by what a mixed bag counterintelligence and ratfuckery was. Devious enough to sabotage and infiltrate, sow internal suspicion and destabilize govts, but full of ineptitude and flaky schemes. Should we be scared or contemptuous? Overthrow Salvador Allende but try to make Castro's beard fall out to lead to internal revolt?
I'm about two-thirds thru the book. It's okay, but most of the content is a rehash of Weatherman stuff and the like. I like Bryan Burrough's
Days of Rage more for a comprehensive telling of this stuff.
M19 is covered on pages 310-312 but members are mentioned in other sections.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... PGArD9oC-k
Re: Whatcha reading?
Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 1:12pm
by Dr. Medulla
revbob wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 1:06pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 11:09am
revbob wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 9:54am
Looks like an interesting read.
Have you read any of the books on COINTELPRO ?
Ward Churchill and Jim Vanderwall did a couple together I think. Read them years ago pretty informative reads.
Nothing specific, but stuff on COINTELPRO has shown up in books on 60s/70s radicalism. I'm always struck by what a mixed bag counterintelligence and ratfuckery was. Devious enough to sabotage and infiltrate, sow internal suspicion and destabilize govts, but full of ineptitude and flaky schemes. Should we be scared or contemptuous? Overthrow Salvador Allende but try to make Castro's beard fall out to lead to internal revolt?
I'm about two-thirds thru the book. It's okay, but most of the content is a rehash of Weatherman stuff and the like. I like Bryan Burrough's
Days of Rage more for a comprehensive telling of this stuff.
M19 is covered on pages 310-312 but members are mentioned in other sections.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... PGArD9oC-k
Thanks for passing this on. I'll slap it onto my iPad.
Re: Whatcha reading?
Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 1:47pm
by revbob
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 1:12pm
revbob wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 1:06pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 11:09am
revbob wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 9:54am
Looks like an interesting read.
Have you read any of the books on COINTELPRO ?
Ward Churchill and Jim Vanderwall did a couple together I think. Read them years ago pretty informative reads.
Nothing specific, but stuff on COINTELPRO has shown up in books on 60s/70s radicalism. I'm always struck by what a mixed bag counterintelligence and ratfuckery was. Devious enough to sabotage and infiltrate, sow internal suspicion and destabilize govts, but full of ineptitude and flaky schemes. Should we be scared or contemptuous? Overthrow Salvador Allende but try to make Castro's beard fall out to lead to internal revolt?
I'm about two-thirds thru the book. It's okay, but most of the content is a rehash of Weatherman stuff and the like. I like Bryan Burrough's
Days of Rage more for a comprehensive telling of this stuff.
M19 is covered on pages 310-312 but members are mentioned in other sections.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... PGArD9oC-k
Thanks for passing this on. I'll slap it onto my iPad.
I thought that and their previous book together were pretty good. Can be dry at times but as a person with a technical background I think I had an easier time digesting it. And this was pretty much pre-internet when I read them so a lot of this info wasn't easy to come by.
Im not sure how Ward Churchill is regarded these days. He was in SDS and AIM and some people speculated he was a provocateur. I have no opinion, radical organizations are always prone to splintering and factionalism which often renders them impotent.
Off the soap box.
Either way I found booth books interesting reads. The first one was more centered on how the program affected the Panthers and AIM.
Cant find a free version
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agents_of_Repression
Re: Whatcha reading?
Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 2:17pm
by Dr. Medulla
revbob wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 1:47pm
Im not sure how Ward Churchill is regarded these days. He was in SDS and AIM and some people speculated he was a provocateur.
I remember he said something right after Sept 11 about how those who died in the towers were war criminals or something like that. That easy abstraction to deny their humanity.
I have no opinion, radical organizations are always prone to splintering and factionalism which often renders them impotent.
They become obsessed with purity of thought and deed, which inevitably leads to purging from within. Everything becomes a test of loyalty, which only encourages infighting betrayal. Whether what brought them together is a just cause, those groups always lose their way. Even if there weren't state pressure on them, I imagine they'd turn on themselves sooner or later. For all the talk about discipline, they don't maintain the discipline to be properly self-critical.
Found a copy at one of my usual haunts.
Re: Whatcha reading?
Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 3:12pm
by revbob
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 2:17pm
revbob wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 1:47pm
Im not sure how Ward Churchill is regarded these days. He was in SDS and AIM and some people speculated he was a provocateur.
I remember he said something right after Sept 11 about how those who died in the towers were war criminals or something like that. That easy abstraction to deny their humanity.
I have no opinion, radical organizations are always prone to splintering and factionalism which often renders them impotent.
They become obsessed with purity of thought and deed, which inevitably leads to purging from within. Everything becomes a test of loyalty, which only encourages infighting betrayal. Whether what brought them together is a just cause, those groups always lose their way. Even if there weren't state pressure on them, I imagine they'd turn on themselves sooner or later. For all the talk about discipline, they don't maintain the discipline to be properly self-critical.
Found a copy at one of my usual haunts.
Ill be curious of your reaction. I read them probably 30 years ago
Re: Whatcha reading?
Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 3:39pm
by Dr. Medulla
revbob wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 3:12pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 2:17pm
revbob wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 1:47pm
Im not sure how Ward Churchill is regarded these days. He was in SDS and AIM and some people speculated he was a provocateur.
I remember he said something right after Sept 11 about how those who died in the towers were war criminals or something like that. That easy abstraction to deny their humanity.
I have no opinion, radical organizations are always prone to splintering and factionalism which often renders them impotent.
They become obsessed with purity of thought and deed, which inevitably leads to purging from within. Everything becomes a test of loyalty, which only encourages infighting betrayal. Whether what brought them together is a just cause, those groups always lose their way. Even if there weren't state pressure on them, I imagine they'd turn on themselves sooner or later. For all the talk about discipline, they don't maintain the discipline to be properly self-critical.
Found a copy at one of my usual haunts.
Ill be curious of your reaction. I read them probably 30 years ago
Don't hold your breath. My list of reading is almost certainly longer than my remaining years. Not for lack of trying, but something work-related always pops up.
Re: Whatcha reading?
Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 3:53pm
by revbob
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 3:39pm
revbob wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 3:12pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 2:17pm
revbob wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 1:47pm
Im not sure how Ward Churchill is regarded these days. He was in SDS and AIM and some people speculated he was a provocateur.
I remember he said something right after Sept 11 about how those who died in the towers were war criminals or something like that. That easy abstraction to deny their humanity.
I have no opinion, radical organizations are always prone to splintering and factionalism which often renders them impotent.
They become obsessed with purity of thought and deed, which inevitably leads to purging from within. Everything becomes a test of loyalty, which only encourages infighting betrayal. Whether what brought them together is a just cause, those groups always lose their way. Even if there weren't state pressure on them, I imagine they'd turn on themselves sooner or later. For all the talk about discipline, they don't maintain the discipline to be properly self-critical.
Found a copy at one of my usual haunts.
Ill be curious of your reaction. I read them probably 30 years ago
Don't hold your breath. My list of reading is almost certainly longer than my remaining years. Not for lack of trying, but something work-related always pops up.
As the guy who hasn't finished the book you sent me Im not really in a position to complain.
The nice thing about those two books is well you have them in electronic format...I was going to say it has a really good appendix.
Re: Whatcha reading?
Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 4:23pm
by Dr. Medulla
revbob wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 3:53pm
The nice thing about those two books is well you have them in electronic format...I was going to say it has a really good appendix.
I like collecting that kind of stuff also for when students are looking for sources for papers and the like. Being able to call up that stuff helps a lot.
Re: Whatcha reading?
Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 5:29pm
by revbob
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 4:23pm
revbob wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020, 3:53pm
The nice thing about those two books is well you have them in electronic format...I was going to say it has a really good appendix.
I like collecting that kind of stuff also for when students are looking for sources for papers and the like. Being able to call up that stuff helps a lot.
Lots of good info.
Re: Whatcha reading?
Posted: 23 Jun 2020, 10:57am
by Dr. Medulla
Finished Rosenau this morning while cleaning the basement storage area—basically switching storage places for various things—and began the next audiobook:
I read this over thirty years ago. But I can't help but love returning to books about LBJ the human being. Larger than life, endlessly contradictory, skilled, funny, needy and manipulative. Can't help but think that he would have seduced me whatever my ideological and moral objections.
Re: Whatcha reading?
Posted: 23 Jun 2020, 11:34am
by Silent Majority
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑23 Jun 2020, 10:57am
Finished Rosenau this morning while cleaning the basement storage area—basically switching storage places for various things—and began the next audiobook:
I read this over thirty years ago. But I can't help but love returning to books about LBJ the human being. Larger than life, endlessly contradictory, skilled, funny, needy and manipulative. Can't help but think that he would have seduced me whatever my ideological and moral objections.
Is that hook-a-brother-up-able?
Re: Whatcha reading?
Posted: 23 Jun 2020, 12:50pm
by Dr. Medulla
Silent Majority wrote: ↑23 Jun 2020, 11:34am
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑23 Jun 2020, 10:57am
Finished Rosenau this morning while cleaning the basement storage area—basically switching storage places for various things—and began the next audiobook:
I read this over thirty years ago. But I can't help but love returning to books about LBJ the human being. Larger than life, endlessly contradictory, skilled, funny, needy and manipulative. Can't help but think that he would have seduced me whatever my ideological and moral objections.
Is that hook-a-brother-up-able?
Yup. I'll PM the link.