Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

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But wait, there's also AI and capitalism/marketing: https://archive.ph/JFhYx
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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Feb 2023, 9:21pm
Kory wrote:
24 Feb 2023, 8:43pm

Primary among these is one that I mentioned earlier, that long-form storytelling has gone almost out the window. Most series are 12 issues max anymore, and I find that it's kind of hard to tell a good story with such a limitation.
Traditionalists who value the old style of single-issue or two-issue stories cock an eyebrow at you. And, somewhat in sympathy to them, if you're requiring over a year to tell your story, you're telling the casual reader to fuck off. That's not a good business model. Ardent fans might love that kind of involved storytelling, but it is problematic from a mass marketing perspective.
Perhaps, but I'm not sure that catering only to a medium's least-interested patrons is a good solution though. I'd have to see stats on how many people were turned away from the show because of its pacing, but I'm not sure I personally would have cared very much about Mad Men if the characters weren't given time to make me get to know them and care about what happened to them.
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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

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Kory wrote:
27 Feb 2023, 5:20pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Feb 2023, 9:21pm
Kory wrote:
24 Feb 2023, 8:43pm

Primary among these is one that I mentioned earlier, that long-form storytelling has gone almost out the window. Most series are 12 issues max anymore, and I find that it's kind of hard to tell a good story with such a limitation.
Traditionalists who value the old style of single-issue or two-issue stories cock an eyebrow at you. And, somewhat in sympathy to them, if you're requiring over a year to tell your story, you're telling the casual reader to fuck off. That's not a good business model. Ardent fans might love that kind of involved storytelling, but it is problematic from a mass marketing perspective.
Perhaps, but I'm not sure that catering only to a medium's least-interested patrons is a good solution though. I'd have to see stats on how many people were turned away from the show because of its pacing, but I'm not sure I personally would have cared very much about Mad Men if the characters weren't given time to make me get to know them and care about what happened to them.
I don't think it's an apt comparison. Or, at least, not all tv series or comics have to be sagas. Plenty of television, in the past and present, is episodic and doesn't require investing in every episode to keep up (the hideous Big Bang Theory, for example). And comics at the height of their success were distinctly episodic. Now, that comparison isn't perfect either because economic and cultural conditions are different, but I'm not persuaded that comics can only survive by appealing to those who are all-in. You always want to make it easy for someone to try your product unless you ambition is to be niche.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

Post by Sparky »

That was hilarious! Poor kid is going to need some therapy later down the road after that.
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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
27 Feb 2023, 5:41pm
Kory wrote:
27 Feb 2023, 5:20pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Feb 2023, 9:21pm
Kory wrote:
24 Feb 2023, 8:43pm

Primary among these is one that I mentioned earlier, that long-form storytelling has gone almost out the window. Most series are 12 issues max anymore, and I find that it's kind of hard to tell a good story with such a limitation.
Traditionalists who value the old style of single-issue or two-issue stories cock an eyebrow at you. And, somewhat in sympathy to them, if you're requiring over a year to tell your story, you're telling the casual reader to fuck off. That's not a good business model. Ardent fans might love that kind of involved storytelling, but it is problematic from a mass marketing perspective.
Perhaps, but I'm not sure that catering only to a medium's least-interested patrons is a good solution though. I'd have to see stats on how many people were turned away from the show because of its pacing, but I'm not sure I personally would have cared very much about Mad Men if the characters weren't given time to make me get to know them and care about what happened to them.
I don't think it's an apt comparison. Or, at least, not all tv series or comics have to be sagas. Plenty of television, in the past and present, is episodic and doesn't require investing in every episode to keep up (the hideous Big Bang Theory, for example). And comics at the height of their success were distinctly episodic. Now, that comparison isn't perfect either because economic and cultural conditions are different, but I'm not persuaded that comics can only survive by appealing to those who are all-in. You always want to make it easy for someone to try your product unless you ambition is to be niche.
Oh, I'm not saying that sagas are the only way forward, just that long-form storytelling isn't a bad business model. There's a long list of titles that corroborate this, and they're usually the ones that are best remembered years later. As you note that plenty of television is episodic, there's also tons of long-form storytelling, and while it may turn off a certain consumer, it's demonstrably not a barrier to success (quite the opposite in many cases). In that context, I think allowing people with only a casual interest in comics to drive the direction of the industry seems like it's going too far in the other direction.
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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

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Kory wrote:
28 Feb 2023, 12:26am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
27 Feb 2023, 5:41pm
Kory wrote:
27 Feb 2023, 5:20pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Feb 2023, 9:21pm
Kory wrote:
24 Feb 2023, 8:43pm

Primary among these is one that I mentioned earlier, that long-form storytelling has gone almost out the window. Most series are 12 issues max anymore, and I find that it's kind of hard to tell a good story with such a limitation.
Traditionalists who value the old style of single-issue or two-issue stories cock an eyebrow at you. And, somewhat in sympathy to them, if you're requiring over a year to tell your story, you're telling the casual reader to fuck off. That's not a good business model. Ardent fans might love that kind of involved storytelling, but it is problematic from a mass marketing perspective.
Perhaps, but I'm not sure that catering only to a medium's least-interested patrons is a good solution though. I'd have to see stats on how many people were turned away from the show because of its pacing, but I'm not sure I personally would have cared very much about Mad Men if the characters weren't given time to make me get to know them and care about what happened to them.
I don't think it's an apt comparison. Or, at least, not all tv series or comics have to be sagas. Plenty of television, in the past and present, is episodic and doesn't require investing in every episode to keep up (the hideous Big Bang Theory, for example). And comics at the height of their success were distinctly episodic. Now, that comparison isn't perfect either because economic and cultural conditions are different, but I'm not persuaded that comics can only survive by appealing to those who are all-in. You always want to make it easy for someone to try your product unless you ambition is to be niche.
Oh, I'm not saying that sagas are the only way forward, just that long-form storytelling isn't a bad business model. There's a long list of titles that corroborate this, and they're usually the ones that are best remembered years later. As you note that plenty of television is episodic, there's also tons of long-form storytelling, and while it may turn off a certain consumer, it's demonstrably not a barrier to success (quite the opposite in many cases). In that context, I think allowing people with only a casual interest in comics to drive the direction of the industry seems like it's going too far in the other direction.
But aren't the long-form series—Mad Men, for example—basically niche audiences? Lots of awards, not huge numbers of audiences (tho a more appealing consumer demographic). My view is that, yes, comics can do both but the casual fan should be the bulk of the audience, providing the revenue to fund the occasional "prestige" long-form series. Numbers, numbers, numbers. Get lots of people who just want a fun, escapist yarn, don't focus on those who are your elites.

But the whole nature of where people will spend their money might render that moot. The casual consumer just might not exist for anything now, as we have enough options to go down our intense rabbit holes.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

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Seriously.🤣

A Newcastle United fan who predicted a cup final win by getting a tattoo says he "got a little bit carried away with myself" after his team fell to defeat.
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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

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Marky Dread wrote:
28 Feb 2023, 1:52pm
Seriously.🤣

A Newcastle United fan who predicted a cup final win by getting a tattoo says he "got a little bit carried away with myself" after his team fell to defeat.
Predictive tattoos should be grounds for dismissal.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Feb 2023, 7:22am
Kory wrote:
28 Feb 2023, 12:26am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
27 Feb 2023, 5:41pm
Kory wrote:
27 Feb 2023, 5:20pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Feb 2023, 9:21pm


Traditionalists who value the old style of single-issue or two-issue stories cock an eyebrow at you. And, somewhat in sympathy to them, if you're requiring over a year to tell your story, you're telling the casual reader to fuck off. That's not a good business model. Ardent fans might love that kind of involved storytelling, but it is problematic from a mass marketing perspective.
Perhaps, but I'm not sure that catering only to a medium's least-interested patrons is a good solution though. I'd have to see stats on how many people were turned away from the show because of its pacing, but I'm not sure I personally would have cared very much about Mad Men if the characters weren't given time to make me get to know them and care about what happened to them.
I don't think it's an apt comparison. Or, at least, not all tv series or comics have to be sagas. Plenty of television, in the past and present, is episodic and doesn't require investing in every episode to keep up (the hideous Big Bang Theory, for example). And comics at the height of their success were distinctly episodic. Now, that comparison isn't perfect either because economic and cultural conditions are different, but I'm not persuaded that comics can only survive by appealing to those who are all-in. You always want to make it easy for someone to try your product unless you ambition is to be niche.
Oh, I'm not saying that sagas are the only way forward, just that long-form storytelling isn't a bad business model. There's a long list of titles that corroborate this, and they're usually the ones that are best remembered years later. As you note that plenty of television is episodic, there's also tons of long-form storytelling, and while it may turn off a certain consumer, it's demonstrably not a barrier to success (quite the opposite in many cases). In that context, I think allowing people with only a casual interest in comics to drive the direction of the industry seems like it's going too far in the other direction.
But aren't the long-form series—Mad Men, for example—basically niche audiences? Lots of awards, not huge numbers of audiences (tho a more appealing consumer demographic). My view is that, yes, comics can do both but the casual fan should be the bulk of the audience, providing the revenue to fund the occasional "prestige" long-form series. Numbers, numbers, numbers. Get lots of people who just want a fun, escapist yarn, don't focus on those who are your elites.

But the whole nature of where people will spend their money might render that moot. The casual consumer just might not exist for anything now, as we have enough options to go down our intense rabbit holes.
Yeah that may be—I always think of shows like Mad Men, Game of Thrones, etc. as having pretty good viewing figures given that what seems like the whole world never shuts up about them :lol:

I guess I might conjecture that comics themselves are niche enough that I don't know if they'd attract casual readers in the first place. I certainly rarely see them in the shops, which are mostly filled with regulars. I suppose they might be buying trades at Barnes and Noble.
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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

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Kory wrote:
28 Feb 2023, 3:57pm
I guess I might conjecture that comics themselves are niche enough that I don't know if they'd attract casual readers in the first place. I certainly rarely see them in the shops, which are mostly filled with regulars. I suppose they might be buying trades at Barnes and Noble.
Definitely, definitely, but it's the result of choices made by the publishers to go from corner stores to comics shops. And targeting the deliberate reader has encouraged storytelling that says "Only the most devoted are invited." The form began as the massest of mass media and has narrowed its market by both distribution and content. As much as I like the form, I'm not all that sympathetic to a business that once was open and inviting, especially to the young, has gotten narrower and especially rejects young readers. If the publishers can survive, good for them, but if they can't, they chose to shun wider audiences.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

Post by Mimi »

Kory wrote:
28 Feb 2023, 3:57pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Feb 2023, 7:22am
Kory wrote:
28 Feb 2023, 12:26am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
27 Feb 2023, 5:41pm
Kory wrote:
27 Feb 2023, 5:20pm


Perhaps, but I'm not sure that catering only to a medium's least-interested patrons is a good solution though. I'd have to see stats on how many people were turned away from the show because of its pacing, but I'm not sure I personally would have cared very much about Mad Men if the characters weren't given time to make me get to know them and care about what happened to them.
I don't think it's an apt comparison. Or, at least, not all tv series or comics have to be sagas. Plenty of television, in the past and present, is episodic and doesn't require investing in every episode to keep up (the hideous Big Bang Theory, for example). And comics at the height of their success were distinctly episodic. Now, that comparison isn't perfect either because economic and cultural conditions are different, but I'm not persuaded that comics can only survive by appealing to those who are all-in. You always want to make it easy for someone to try your product unless you ambition is to be niche.
Oh, I'm not saying that sagas are the only way forward, just that long-form storytelling isn't a bad business model. There's a long list of titles that corroborate this, and they're usually the ones that are best remembered years later. As you note that plenty of television is episodic, there's also tons of long-form storytelling, and while it may turn off a certain consumer, it's demonstrably not a barrier to success (quite the opposite in many cases). In that context, I think allowing people with only a casual interest in comics to drive the direction of the industry seems like it's going too far in the other direction.
But aren't the long-form series—Mad Men, for example—basically niche audiences? Lots of awards, not huge numbers of audiences (tho a more appealing consumer demographic). My view is that, yes, comics can do both but the casual fan should be the bulk of the audience, providing the revenue to fund the occasional "prestige" long-form series. Numbers, numbers, numbers. Get lots of people who just want a fun, escapist yarn, don't focus on those who are your elites.

But the whole nature of where people will spend their money might render that moot. The casual consumer just might not exist for anything now, as we have enough options to go down our intense rabbit holes.
Yeah that may be—I always think of shows like Mad Men, Game of Thrones, etc. as having pretty good viewing figures given that what seems like the whole world never shuts up about them :lol:

I guess I might conjecture that comics themselves are niche enough that I don't know if they'd attract casual readers in the first place. I certainly rarely see them in the shops, which are mostly filled with regulars. I suppose they might be buying trades at Barnes and Noble.
Hey! I resemble that remark.

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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

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This is cute af. A sign that my stomach is feeling better is now I want to smash my face into biscuits and gravy and mashed potatoes.


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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

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Mimi wrote:
28 Feb 2023, 4:26pm
Hey! I resemble that remark.
Even as someone who regards Mad Men as perhaps the greatest tv drama ever aired—top 3 anyway—I fully recognize how goddamned annoying fans of prestige series are, especially to non-fans. Any series that spawns a tv show that has "superfans" discussing the episode that just aired raises my contrarian ire and I will deliberately avoid watching it. That level of contrived geekery deserves nothing but scorn.
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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Feb 2023, 4:17pm
Kory wrote:
28 Feb 2023, 3:57pm
I guess I might conjecture that comics themselves are niche enough that I don't know if they'd attract casual readers in the first place. I certainly rarely see them in the shops, which are mostly filled with regulars. I suppose they might be buying trades at Barnes and Noble.
Definitely, definitely, but it's the result of choices made by the publishers to go from corner stores to comics shops. And targeting the deliberate reader has encouraged storytelling that says "Only the most devoted are invited." The form began as the massest of mass media and has narrowed its market by both distribution and content. As much as I like the form, I'm not all that sympathetic to a business that once was open and inviting, especially to the young, has gotten narrower and especially rejects young readers. If the publishers can survive, good for them, but if they can't, they chose to shun wider audiences.
I think that's largely true of the big two, but there are a lot of kids' comics out there these days, to the extent that all the shops I've been to have extensive kids' sections. I can't speak for DC, but I know Marvel also has a lot of kid-friendly books, they just aren't as much FF and Spider-Man anymore. And as I mentioned before, they're also noticeably decreasing their focus on longer stories too. I just don't get as much out of that but there's a lot more opportunities for the casual/young reader now than there were 10 years ago.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

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