Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

The big criticism we can make on Rollins is being a pitchman for various corporations. He's done ads for Apple and a car company. I don't see how anyone can spin that as consistent with punk values. I can see his point with signing to a major label—even if I don't agree with the overall argument—but trading on your rep to shill for corporations is icky.
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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

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101Walterton wrote:
21 May 2020, 7:33pm
WestwayKid wrote:
21 May 2020, 6:54pm
Kory wrote:
21 May 2020, 4:27pm
revbob wrote:
21 May 2020, 3:52pm
Kory wrote:
21 May 2020, 3:40pm
Ok...?
Pretty easy for him to say.
According to Wikipedia, Joe was worth about 1 million pounds when he died. Doing the inflation and pounds to dollars math, he was worth about $1.2 million. I assume that would have gone up in the past 18 years, but that said - I really don't think Joe cared about money. Not saying Henry does, but he's not Joe. He was a complicated man, but Joe was a true believer. Henry appeared in Jackass. I really like Henry. He's smart and he has shown he'll put his money where his mouth is - but shit...not sure where I'm going with this. Day drinking.
I think those Joe millionaire comments were misleading. I remember this being discussed years ago. Joe’s worth was based on his property he owned (his home) not cash in his wallet.
I think the value of "The Clash" has grown quite a bit in the past 20 years, but I don't think the money ever would have been that important to Joe. Marky once called him the most human of rock stars and I agree.
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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 May 2020, 7:41pm
The big criticism we can make on Rollins is being a pitchman for various corporations. He's done ads for Apple and a car company. I don't see how anyone can spin that as consistent with punk values. I can see his point with signing to a major label—even if I don't agree with the overall argument—but trading on your rep to shill for corporations is icky.
Yeah, that is icky. I don't believe Joe would ever have sold out in that way. I really don't.
"Geoff who takes kids camping is dead all the boys except Rusty are missing." - revbob
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101Walterton
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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

Post by 101Walterton »

revbob wrote:
21 May 2020, 7:40pm
101Walterton wrote:
21 May 2020, 7:33pm
WestwayKid wrote:
21 May 2020, 6:54pm
Kory wrote:
21 May 2020, 4:27pm
revbob wrote:
21 May 2020, 3:52pm


Ok...?
Pretty easy for him to say.
According to Wikipedia, Joe was worth about 1 million pounds when he died. Doing the inflation and pounds to dollars math, he was worth about $1.2 million. I assume that would have gone up in the past 18 years, but that said - I really don't think Joe cared about money. Not saying Henry does, but he's not Joe. He was a complicated man, but Joe was a true believer. Henry appeared in Jackass. I really like Henry. He's smart and he has shown he'll put his money where his mouth is - but shit...not sure where I'm going with this. Day drinking.
I think those Joe millionaire comments were misleading. I remember this being discussed years ago. Joe’s worth was based on his property he owned (his home) not cash in his wallet.
That generally plays into the calculation.
It’s a valuation not money. Moving from London out to the sticks Joe like anyone else would have equity but unless someone buys the house for a million quid Joe ain’t got a million quid. Like I said misleading.

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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

Post by revbob »

101Walterton wrote:
21 May 2020, 9:36pm
revbob wrote:
21 May 2020, 7:40pm
101Walterton wrote:
21 May 2020, 7:33pm
WestwayKid wrote:
21 May 2020, 6:54pm
Kory wrote:
21 May 2020, 4:27pm


Pretty easy for him to say.
According to Wikipedia, Joe was worth about 1 million pounds when he died. Doing the inflation and pounds to dollars math, he was worth about $1.2 million. I assume that would have gone up in the past 18 years, but that said - I really don't think Joe cared about money. Not saying Henry does, but he's not Joe. He was a complicated man, but Joe was a true believer. Henry appeared in Jackass. I really like Henry. He's smart and he has shown he'll put his money where his mouth is - but shit...not sure where I'm going with this. Day drinking.
I think those Joe millionaire comments were misleading. I remember this being discussed years ago. Joe’s worth was based on his property he owned (his home) not cash in his wallet.
That generally plays into the calculation.
It’s a valuation not money. Moving from London out to the sticks Joe like anyone else would have equity but unless someone buys the house for a million quid Joe ain’t got a million quid. Like I said misleading.
Not disputing what you're saying but a person's "net worth "

"Net worth is the combined value of your assets, or the things you own that have monetary value, minus the value of your liabilities — the accounts or loans that you’re paying off."

101Walterton
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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

Post by 101Walterton »

revbob wrote:
21 May 2020, 9:40pm
101Walterton wrote:
21 May 2020, 9:36pm
revbob wrote:
21 May 2020, 7:40pm
101Walterton wrote:
21 May 2020, 7:33pm
WestwayKid wrote:
21 May 2020, 6:54pm


According to Wikipedia, Joe was worth about 1 million pounds when he died. Doing the inflation and pounds to dollars math, he was worth about $1.2 million. I assume that would have gone up in the past 18 years, but that said - I really don't think Joe cared about money. Not saying Henry does, but he's not Joe. He was a complicated man, but Joe was a true believer. Henry appeared in Jackass. I really like Henry. He's smart and he has shown he'll put his money where his mouth is - but shit...not sure where I'm going with this. Day drinking.
I think those Joe millionaire comments were misleading. I remember this being discussed years ago. Joe’s worth was based on his property he owned (his home) not cash in his wallet.
That generally plays into the calculation.
It’s a valuation not money. Moving from London out to the sticks Joe like anyone else would have equity but unless someone buys the house for a million quid Joe ain’t got a million quid. Like I said misleading.
Not disputing what you're saying but a person's "net worth "

"Net worth is the combined value of your assets, or the things you own that have monetary value, minus the value of your liabilities — the accounts or loans that you’re paying off."
Yep all good but back when the details of Joe’s estate went public the ‘story’ was about Joe the punk millionaire not Joe’s net worth. As I said misleading.

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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

Post by Marky Dread »

WestwayKid wrote:
21 May 2020, 8:38pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 May 2020, 7:41pm
The big criticism we can make on Rollins is being a pitchman for various corporations. He's done ads for Apple and a car company. I don't see how anyone can spin that as consistent with punk values. I can see his point with signing to a major label—even if I don't agree with the overall argument—but trading on your rep to shill for corporations is icky.
Yeah, that is icky. I don't believe Joe would ever have sold out in that way. I really don't.
I'm not disagreeing with anyone here. Simply speaking from my own point of view. If I was a famous punk person and I had a chance of using my so called punk credentials to make the welfare of my family secure. Then I'd be like "an advert for Chevrolet?, no problem".
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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Marky Dread wrote:
22 May 2020, 5:23am
WestwayKid wrote:
21 May 2020, 8:38pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 May 2020, 7:41pm
The big criticism we can make on Rollins is being a pitchman for various corporations. He's done ads for Apple and a car company. I don't see how anyone can spin that as consistent with punk values. I can see his point with signing to a major label—even if I don't agree with the overall argument—but trading on your rep to shill for corporations is icky.
Yeah, that is icky. I don't believe Joe would ever have sold out in that way. I really don't.
I'm not disagreeing with anyone here. Simply speaking from my own point of view. If I was a famous punk person and I had a chance of using my so called punk credentials to make the welfare of my family secure. Then I'd be like "an advert for Chevrolet?, no problem".
That's the carrot that seduces and keeps capitalism's claws firmly entrenched. Picking the local interest—self or family—over the social. I understand why people do it, but it's important to see that the choice they are making is themselves over the larger effects of endorsing that system.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
22 May 2020, 6:22am
Marky Dread wrote:
22 May 2020, 5:23am
WestwayKid wrote:
21 May 2020, 8:38pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 May 2020, 7:41pm
The big criticism we can make on Rollins is being a pitchman for various corporations. He's done ads for Apple and a car company. I don't see how anyone can spin that as consistent with punk values. I can see his point with signing to a major label—even if I don't agree with the overall argument—but trading on your rep to shill for corporations is icky.
Yeah, that is icky. I don't believe Joe would ever have sold out in that way. I really don't.
I'm not disagreeing with anyone here. Simply speaking from my own point of view. If I was a famous punk person and I had a chance of using my so called punk credentials to make the welfare of my family secure. Then I'd be like "an advert for Chevrolet?, no problem".
That's the carrot that seduces and keeps capitalism's claws firmly entrenched. Picking the local interest—self or family—over the social. I understand why people do it, but it's important to see that the choice they are making is themselves over the larger effects of endorsing that system.
Having an awareness of how the system screws the man and making a stand against big business etc is all well and good. But at the end of the day you still gotta put food on the table.

I've never understood band's like The Clash et all sticking to principles over the big buck. These band's get offered millions to reform and turn it down because it's against their principles but I feel they should use their good fortune to take that money then give it to those in need. That to me is beating the system at its own game. Sure the promoters become even more wealthy but at least some of that wealth will go to those in need. There is simply no point in pretending that sticking to some punk idealism that you are somehow breaking the system that purity benefits no one.
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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

Post by 101Walterton »

Marky Dread wrote:
22 May 2020, 6:46am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
22 May 2020, 6:22am
Marky Dread wrote:
22 May 2020, 5:23am
WestwayKid wrote:
21 May 2020, 8:38pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 May 2020, 7:41pm
The big criticism we can make on Rollins is being a pitchman for various corporations. He's done ads for Apple and a car company. I don't see how anyone can spin that as consistent with punk values. I can see his point with signing to a major label—even if I don't agree with the overall argument—but trading on your rep to shill for corporations is icky.
Yeah, that is icky. I don't believe Joe would ever have sold out in that way. I really don't.
I'm not disagreeing with anyone here. Simply speaking from my own point of view. If I was a famous punk person and I had a chance of using my so called punk credentials to make the welfare of my family secure. Then I'd be like "an advert for Chevrolet?, no problem".
That's the carrot that seduces and keeps capitalism's claws firmly entrenched. Picking the local interest—self or family—over the social. I understand why people do it, but it's important to see that the choice they are making is themselves over the larger effects of endorsing that system.
Having an awareness of how the system screws the man and making a stand against big business etc is all well and good. But at the end of the day you still gotta put food on the table.

I've never understood band's like The Clash et all sticking to principles over the big buck. These band's get offered millions to reform and turn it down because it's against their principles but I feel they should use their good fortune to take that money then give it to those in need. That to me is beating the system at its own game. Sure the promoters become even more wealthy but at least some of that wealth will go to those in need. There is simply no point in pretending that sticking to some punk idealism that you are somehow breaking the system that purity benefits no one.
I would sell my soul in heartbeat for the good of my family, wouldn’t think twice about it.
Admire those that stand by their principles though (to a point).

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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Marky Dread wrote:
22 May 2020, 6:46am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
22 May 2020, 6:22am
Marky Dread wrote:
22 May 2020, 5:23am
WestwayKid wrote:
21 May 2020, 8:38pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 May 2020, 7:41pm
The big criticism we can make on Rollins is being a pitchman for various corporations. He's done ads for Apple and a car company. I don't see how anyone can spin that as consistent with punk values. I can see his point with signing to a major label—even if I don't agree with the overall argument—but trading on your rep to shill for corporations is icky.
Yeah, that is icky. I don't believe Joe would ever have sold out in that way. I really don't.
I'm not disagreeing with anyone here. Simply speaking from my own point of view. If I was a famous punk person and I had a chance of using my so called punk credentials to make the welfare of my family secure. Then I'd be like "an advert for Chevrolet?, no problem".
That's the carrot that seduces and keeps capitalism's claws firmly entrenched. Picking the local interest—self or family—over the social. I understand why people do it, but it's important to see that the choice they are making is themselves over the larger effects of endorsing that system.
Having an awareness of how the system screws the man and making a stand against big business etc is all well and good. But at the end of the day you still gotta put food on the table.
Nobody here is damning Rollins for earning a living to feed himself and his family. If he couldn't find any work whatsoever, fine, trade on your rep and then buy groceries. But shilling for Hyundai is about maximizing income, about pursuing luxury. That's a not so subtle distinction.
I've never understood band's like The Clash et all sticking to principles over the big buck. These band's get offered millions to reform and turn it down because it's against their principles but I feel they should use their good fortune to take that money then give it to those in need. That to me is beating the system at its own game. Sure the promoters become even more wealthy but at least some of that wealth will go to those in need. There is simply no point in pretending that sticking to some punk idealism that you are somehow breaking the system that purity benefits no one.
I understand that position and it can mean practical relief for those in need. So, yeah, there is some genuine value there. But that doesn't beat the system at its own game—it validates it. It says, yes, capitalism is exploitative and malicious and encourages greed, but if a few people act nobly, then all is good. Everyone wins! I no longer believe that it can be brought down from within because that only gives the illusion that it's a benign big tent. Refuse to play the game when you can. Nobody is free from the logic of capitalism—this isn't about purity—but thinking we can have our cake and eat just validates the rot.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
22 May 2020, 7:55am
Marky Dread wrote:
22 May 2020, 6:46am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
22 May 2020, 6:22am
Marky Dread wrote:
22 May 2020, 5:23am
WestwayKid wrote:
21 May 2020, 8:38pm


Yeah, that is icky. I don't believe Joe would ever have sold out in that way. I really don't.
I'm not disagreeing with anyone here. Simply speaking from my own point of view. If I was a famous punk person and I had a chance of using my so called punk credentials to make the welfare of my family secure. Then I'd be like "an advert for Chevrolet?, no problem".
That's the carrot that seduces and keeps capitalism's claws firmly entrenched. Picking the local interest—self or family—over the social. I understand why people do it, but it's important to see that the choice they are making is themselves over the larger effects of endorsing that system.
Having an awareness of how the system screws the man and making a stand against big business etc is all well and good. But at the end of the day you still gotta put food on the table.
Nobody here is damning Rollins for earning a living to feed himself and his family. If he couldn't find any work whatsoever, fine, trade on your rep and then buy groceries. But shilling for Hyundai is about maximizing income, about pursuing luxury. That's a not so subtle distinction.
I've never understood band's like The Clash et all sticking to principles over the big buck. These band's get offered millions to reform and turn it down because it's against their principles but I feel they should use their good fortune to take that money then give it to those in need. That to me is beating the system at its own game. Sure the promoters become even more wealthy but at least some of that wealth will go to those in need. There is simply no point in pretending that sticking to some punk idealism that you are somehow breaking the system that purity benefits no one.
I understand that position and it can mean practical relief for those in need. So, yeah, there is some genuine value there. But that doesn't beat the system at its own game—it validates it. It says, yes, capitalism is exploitative and malicious and encourages greed, but if a few people act nobly, then all is good. Everyone wins! I no longer believe that it can be brought down from within because that only gives the illusion that it's a benign big tent. Refuse to play the game when you can. Nobody is free from the logic of capitalism—this isn't about purity—but thinking we can have our cake and eat just validates the rot.
You either work from within the system or not. It's never going away as far as I can see. If a majority was to oppose it then maybe it could be replaced by something better (fairer). But that is simply not going to happen we all suffer from modern greed. No matter how caring and principled we think we are.

I prefer the idea of getting as close to the wall as possible then some of the shit we throw against it just might stick. Sadly way too many of us rely on this failed system to exist.

I would love to believe the current system could be destroyed. But it can not and there is just as much chance it would be replaced by something even more evil. People (including me) are simply too beaten down / or lazy to do anything. Defeatist yes quite possibly but I've been involved in enough good causes and campaigns down the years (CND/RAR/ALF) to know that those wealthy bastards always win in the end.
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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Marky Dread wrote:
22 May 2020, 8:15am
You either work from within the system or not. It's never going away as far as I can see. If a majority was to oppose it then maybe it could be replaced by something better (fairer). But that is simply not going to happen we all suffer from modern greed. No matter how caring and principled we think we are.

I prefer the idea of getting as close to the wall as possible then some of the shit we throw against it just might stick. Sadly way too many of us rely on this failed system to exist.

I would love to believe the current system could be destroyed. But it can not and there is just as much chance it would be replaced by something even more evil. People (including me) are simply too beaten down / or lazy to do anything. Defeatist yes quite possibly but I've been involved in enough good causes and campaigns down the years (CND/RAR/ALF) to know that those wealthy bastards always win in the end.
I don't begrudge that at all—deep down, I'm resigned to agree with you on most of it. But I nevertheless refuse to believe that good comes from validating evil. And seeking to be a moral person should mean seeking not to validate evil. That sounds simplistic because it is. In practice, it's much messier and we all compromise, but nevertheless that's the ideal to strive for when we have a legitimate choice. Bringing it back to Henry Rollins, as someone who's made his name arguing for autonomy and dignity, working for corporations to expand his person wealth is an icky choice.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
22 May 2020, 8:47am
Marky Dread wrote:
22 May 2020, 8:15am
You either work from within the system or not. It's never going away as far as I can see. If a majority was to oppose it then maybe it could be replaced by something better (fairer). But that is simply not going to happen we all suffer from modern greed. No matter how caring and principled we think we are.

I prefer the idea of getting as close to the wall as possible then some of the shit we throw against it just might stick. Sadly way too many of us rely on this failed system to exist.

I would love to believe the current system could be destroyed. But it can not and there is just as much chance it would be replaced by something even more evil. People (including me) are simply too beaten down / or lazy to do anything. Defeatist yes quite possibly but I've been involved in enough good causes and campaigns down the years (CND/RAR/ALF) to know that those wealthy bastards always win in the end.
I don't begrudge that at all—deep down, I'm resigned to agree with you on most of it. But I nevertheless refuse to believe that good comes from validating evil. And seeking to be a moral person should mean seeking not to validate evil. That sounds simplistic because it is. In practice, it's much messier and we all compromise, but nevertheless that's the ideal to strive for when we have a legitimate choice. Bringing it back to Henry Rollins, as someone who's made his name arguing for autonomy and dignity, working for corporations to expand his person wealth is an icky choice.
Yes I agree regards Henry. My posts were only coming from my point of view and not in favour of Henry.

I don't think it sits well when guys like Henry who came from little then grabbed the chance to be a somebody goes against all that made him what he is. He's clearly already wealthy and does not need to buy a bigger car.

If Henry was using these promotional things to help others in need then that would be a different thing altogether. There would be a dignified pragmatism in that at least.

Simply continuing to line his own pockets then quoting the likes of Strummer is not on.
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Re: Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
22 May 2020, 7:55am
I understand that position and it can mean practical relief for those in need. So, yeah, there is some genuine value there. But that doesn't beat the system at its own game—it validates it. It says, yes, capitalism is exploitative and malicious and encourages greed, but if a few people act nobly, then all is good. Everyone wins! I no longer believe that it can be brought down from within because that only gives the illusion that it's a benign big tent. Refuse to play the game when you can. Nobody is free from the logic of capitalism—this isn't about purity—but thinking we can have our cake and eat just validates the rot.
My main point at the beginning was just that it's real easy for someone with 6 million to tell people with considerably less that now is not the time to be dismayed. It reeks of privilege.

But the above is an important point. Right wingers are often citing the act of citizens giving to charity as a way to absolve the government from its social responsibility, which is gross. Of course we should give to charity when we can, but I wouldn't consider that working against the system from within—it's more like surreptitiously tipping your waiter on your way out the door because your parents don't believe in it. It's not going to fix anything because your parents are going to continue not tipping, and you certainly aren't going to change their mind (but you should still do it).
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