Star Trek

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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Star Trek

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Picard … pretty, pretty good. So far, the kind of send off TNG deserves.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Star Trek

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Mar 2023, 9:14pm
Picard … pretty, pretty good. So far, the kind of send off TNG deserves.
Through the first few episodes and agreed so far. Counter to my own usual instincts, just going full throttle into "getting the band back together" sentiments has produced a very strong season. Lots of great little touches, and the episode by episode reveals really keep the plotting snappy.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Star Trek

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Flex wrote:
20 Mar 2023, 11:28pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Mar 2023, 9:14pm
Picard … pretty, pretty good. So far, the kind of send off TNG deserves.
Through the first few episodes and agreed so far. Counter to my own usual instincts, just going full throttle into "getting the band back together" sentiments has produced a very strong season. Lots of great little touches, and the episode by episode reveals really keep the plotting snappy.
The only narrative oversight so far has been when they were in that nebula and counting down to die, no one thought to remind Crusher, hey, your other kid is basically a god, maybe give him a shout? But otherwise it's been a fun, tense, extended mystery.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Flex
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Re: Star Trek

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 6:18am
Flex wrote:
20 Mar 2023, 11:28pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Mar 2023, 9:14pm
Picard … pretty, pretty good. So far, the kind of send off TNG deserves.
Through the first few episodes and agreed so far. Counter to my own usual instincts, just going full throttle into "getting the band back together" sentiments has produced a very strong season. Lots of great little touches, and the episode by episode reveals really keep the plotting snappy.
The only narrative oversight so far has been when they were in that nebula and counting down to die, no one thought to remind Crusher, hey, your other kid is basically a god, maybe give him a shout? But otherwise it's been a fun, tense, extended mystery.
I think we'd all rather die than have to deal with an omniscient Wesley Crusher.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Star Trek

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Flex wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 8:35am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 6:18am
Flex wrote:
20 Mar 2023, 11:28pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Mar 2023, 9:14pm
Picard … pretty, pretty good. So far, the kind of send off TNG deserves.
Through the first few episodes and agreed so far. Counter to my own usual instincts, just going full throttle into "getting the band back together" sentiments has produced a very strong season. Lots of great little touches, and the episode by episode reveals really keep the plotting snappy.
The only narrative oversight so far has been when they were in that nebula and counting down to die, no one thought to remind Crusher, hey, your other kid is basically a god, maybe give him a shout? But otherwise it's been a fun, tense, extended mystery.
I think we'd all rather die than have to deal with an omniscient Wesley Crusher.
A real fan service finale has Wesley revealed as the Big Evil and all the characters in the Star Trek universe combine to vapourize him. Picard's death blow line: "Shut up, Wesley!"
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Star Trek

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Really enjoyed that nebula episode.
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Flex
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Re: Star Trek

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Silent Majority wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 5:14pm
Really enjoyed that nebula episode.
Yeah, that's the one where I was sold.

Caught up now. The Ro Laren episode was RIVETING. And a brilliant way to revisit and close a character arc. Very excited for the final four episodes.

It's funny, in some ways this season is a throwback to the old TNG season one conspiracy story arc. But, like, not done in the season one, er, house style so to speak.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Star Trek

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Flex wrote:
22 Mar 2023, 10:47pm
It's funny, in some ways this season is a throwback to the old TNG season one conspiracy story arc. But, like, not done in the season one, er, house style so to speak.
It's striking to me how much of the DS9 vision now dominates ST. The Federation has been brought down several pegs, the characters have more complicated motivations, the achievements more mixed. Yet it still seems to be the child left out of the Christmas letter. You'll hear references to Voyager and Enterprise characters more than you will DS9.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Star Trek

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 6:24am
It's striking to me how much of the DS9 vision now dominates ST. The Federation has been brought down several pegs, the characters have more complicated motivations, the achievements more mixed. Yet it still seems to be the child left out of the Christmas letter. You'll hear references to Voyager and Enterprise characters more than you will DS9.
Yeah, it makes me wonder if there's some sort of behind the scenes issue between creators or something. The lack of even, like, minor Easter eggs and whatnot in any of the Trek shows (well, I guess Lower Decks throws them a bone sometimes) is extremely odd.

DS9 was the first Trek to lean into extended storytelling, which I think naturally lends itself to all the things you mention. And it was definitely at the bleeding edge of the coming wave of darker television (tho, I'm on a slow rewatch and compared to shows today it's a fuckin' ray of sunshine).

One thing I heard or read about star trek (and it's hardly alone in this) but that star trek is good at adapting to the social needs and mores of the day. Always optimistic, ultimately, but it meets the cultural needs where they are. This version of trek, more skeptical of institutions and more willing to find its protagonists flawed, seems to fit that tradition.

(As an aside, I actually wonder if we'll see a Trek move back in the other direction a bit with the rise of more sophisticated optimistic storytelling in shows like Ted Lasso and Shrinking. Trek seems primed to capture that zeitgeist too. I think they tried somewhat with DISCO but that show has some structural flaws outside of its tonal choices.

Addendum: actually, they may already have that with Lower Decks, come to think of it.)
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Star Trek

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Flex wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 9:32am
One thing I heard or read about star trek (and it's hardly alone in this) but that star trek is good at adapting to the social needs and mores of the day. Always optimistic, ultimately, but it meets the cultural needs where they are. This version of trek, more skeptical of institutions and more willing to find its protagonists flawed, seems to fit that tradition.

(As an aside, I actually wonder if we'll see a Trek move back in the other direction a bit with the rise of more sophisticated optimistic storytelling in shows like Ted Lasso and Shrinking. Trek seems primed to capture that zeitgeist too. I think they tried somewhat with DISCO but that show has some structural flaws outside of its tonal choices.

Addendum: actually, they may already have that with Lower Decks, come to think of it.)
Science fiction more broadly has been adept at representing the cultural moods and critiques of its time, and Star Trek is no different. TOS was very much reflective of consensus liberalism idea that all the big problems have been solved, so let’s go find things to perfect! Everyone a hero. Kirk as a Kennedy. That faith has steadily eroded since TOS and the various series all show greater doubt if not outright rejection. Heroes succeed despite the structures, not because of them (often explicitly against them). Audiences generally need their fantasy connected to the real world in order for it to be satisfying (too much like the real world isn’t fantasy; too little is bewildering).

The one wrench in whether ST can recover a more hopeful perspective is whether scifi fans are sufficiently like audiences more generally. If scifi audiences have become dominated by doom and cynicism, ST probably can’t escape that black hole (pun intended).
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Star Trek

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One episode to go and it seems like it's lost its momentum despite obvious plot movement. As invested as I was in the mystery for the first two-thirds, I just want a resolution now, even tho I don't expect anything satisfying, but to have it done. Cut the season/story from 10 episodes to 8 and I suspect it'd be more engaging.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Flex
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Re: Star Trek

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Apr 2023, 7:16pm
One episode to go and it seems like it's lost its momentum despite obvious plot movement. As invested as I was in the mystery for the first two-thirds, I just want a resolution now, even tho I don't expect anything satisfying, but to have it done. Cut the season/story from 10 episodes to 8 and I suspect it'd be more engaging.
I've enjoyed it all so far, although I think the "mystery of jack" stuff slows things down too much. They've done a pretty good job bringing in classic TNG characters at a clip to keep things lively. Lotta heartfelt payoffs. Hoping the last two episodes reward "getting the band back together" in a fun way.

Also, loved the "fucking solids" line.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Star Trek

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Flex wrote:
07 Apr 2023, 8:36pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Apr 2023, 7:16pm
One episode to go and it seems like it's lost its momentum despite obvious plot movement. As invested as I was in the mystery for the first two-thirds, I just want a resolution now, even tho I don't expect anything satisfying, but to have it done. Cut the season/story from 10 episodes to 8 and I suspect it'd be more engaging.
I've enjoyed it all so far, although I think the "mystery of jack" stuff slows things down too much. They've done a pretty good job bringing in classic TNG characters at a clip to keep things lively. Lotta heartfelt payoffs. Hoping the last two episodes reward "getting the band back together" in a fun way.

Also, loved the "fucking solids" line.
Much as I like the cast coming together for one last adventure—seriously, it's wonderful in ways that I wouldn't have expected of myself—the story is just grinding. It's violating the rule that the reader's (or viewer's) time is valuable, so don't abuse the privilege.

Plot problem(?): Didn't they blow-up Picard's original body at the end with the baddies' ship? That doesn't seem smart.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Flex
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Re: Star Trek

Post by Flex »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Apr 2023, 8:49pm
Flex wrote:
07 Apr 2023, 8:36pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Apr 2023, 7:16pm
One episode to go and it seems like it's lost its momentum despite obvious plot movement. As invested as I was in the mystery for the first two-thirds, I just want a resolution now, even tho I don't expect anything satisfying, but to have it done. Cut the season/story from 10 episodes to 8 and I suspect it'd be more engaging.
I've enjoyed it all so far, although I think the "mystery of jack" stuff slows things down too much. They've done a pretty good job bringing in classic TNG characters at a clip to keep things lively. Lotta heartfelt payoffs. Hoping the last two episodes reward "getting the band back together" in a fun way.

Also, loved the "fucking solids" line.
Much as I like the cast coming together for one last adventure—seriously, it's wonderful in ways that I wouldn't have expected of myself—the story is just grinding. It's violating the rule that the reader's (or viewer's) time is valuable, so don't abuse the privilege.

Plot problem(?): Didn't they blow-up Picard's original body at the end with the baddies' ship? That doesn't seem smart.
I will say, I watched the latest episode last night and I had to check to make sure that I had seen the one from the week before (I had) because it must have basically washed over me without leaving a mark. So, I suppose in my mind, I'm watching a near perfect-length series!

Star Trek is almost always better when it's about getting all the right pieces into place and how that happens vs the actual action that takes place in the Big Moments. I'd say where there's slack in the show it's still failing in pretty comfortably star trek-y ways.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Star Trek

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Flex wrote:
07 Apr 2023, 8:56pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Apr 2023, 8:49pm
Flex wrote:
07 Apr 2023, 8:36pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Apr 2023, 7:16pm
One episode to go and it seems like it's lost its momentum despite obvious plot movement. As invested as I was in the mystery for the first two-thirds, I just want a resolution now, even tho I don't expect anything satisfying, but to have it done. Cut the season/story from 10 episodes to 8 and I suspect it'd be more engaging.
I've enjoyed it all so far, although I think the "mystery of jack" stuff slows things down too much. They've done a pretty good job bringing in classic TNG characters at a clip to keep things lively. Lotta heartfelt payoffs. Hoping the last two episodes reward "getting the band back together" in a fun way.

Also, loved the "fucking solids" line.
Much as I like the cast coming together for one last adventure—seriously, it's wonderful in ways that I wouldn't have expected of myself—the story is just grinding. It's violating the rule that the reader's (or viewer's) time is valuable, so don't abuse the privilege.

Plot problem(?): Didn't they blow-up Picard's original body at the end with the baddies' ship? That doesn't seem smart.
I will say, I watched the latest episode last night and I had to check to make sure that I had seen the one from the week before (I had) because it must have basically washed over me without leaving a mark. So, I suppose in my mind, I'm watching a near perfect-length series!

Star Trek is almost always better when it's about getting all the right pieces into place and how that happens vs the actual action that takes place in the Big Moments. I'd say where there's slack in the show it's still failing in pretty comfortably star trek-y ways.
It's still the best of the three Picard seasons, in terms of story and "fan service," without a doubt, and often hits the right notes with regards to a send-off to these characters, but it's mostly in the moments and not the main story. There's a bit of a problem, I think, in making the core mystery in terms of what's left being about Jack, a character that probably ain't gonna survive (unless J-LP sacrifices himself for him), when the attention should be on the title character and the TNG people. I mean, this last episode, does Picard do anything?
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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