Star Trek

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JennyB
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Re: Star Trek

Post by JennyB »

Wolter wrote:
21 Mar 2019, 5:28pm
Silent Majority wrote:
21 Mar 2019, 5:04pm
revbob wrote:
21 Mar 2019, 4:54pm
tepista wrote:
21 Mar 2019, 4:45pm
Image
Its pretty hard to look away.
Shatner can do that shit without even breaking character
I mean...if you count “being Shatner” as being in character.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Star Trek

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I've been diving back into Discovery again and it's better than I remember. I'd call it the fourth best Trek series:

1. TOS
2. DS9
3. TNG
4. DIS
5. TAS
6. VOY
7. ENT

top three are all-time great shows, 4-5 are good, 6 is a failed but noble experiment, 7 is unwatchable garbage.
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Re: Star Trek

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1. DS9
2. TOS
3. TNG

4. VOY
5. TAS

6. DIS / ENT

First group are solid, with DS9 as my favourite sci-fi series of any by a far margin. Second group have their moments and but it's mostly meh. Third group, I'm okay with Enterprise's Xindi story as a whole, but the rest was pointless fanfic. Haven't watched the second season of Discovery because the first season was dark and dull shit that really makes no sense as a prequel to TOS. At least Enterprise limited the technology enough that it seemed set well before TOS.
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Re: Star Trek

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Maybe I haven't watched the really dark stuff yet, but Discovery doesn't strike me as any "darker" than DS9 and probably a better tonally than a lot of Enterprise.

And, I've said this before, but I guess I don't care about the tech stuff. The shows were made in different decades so what they could make the future look like is different. Just not something I think about when I'm watching the show.

I agree with the more general critique that placing shows in this era (this goes for enterprise too) probably demonstrates a lack of imagination in storytelling and confidence in giving people something new. I think the different series have always had a bit more connective tissue than this critique implies, but it's still pretty fair. Seems like you could set a series post-Nemesis or a tv series in the Kelvin universe or w/e.
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Re: Star Trek

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Flex wrote:
01 Apr 2019, 3:37pm
Maybe I haven't watched the really dark stuff yet, but Discovery doesn't strike me as any "darker" than DS9 and probably a better tonally than a lot of Enterprise.
Sorry, I meant visually, not thematically. That first season was just allergic to bright and distinct colours. It looked muddy way too often.
And, I've said this before, but I guess I don't care about the tech stuff. The shows were made in different decades so what they could make the future look like is different. Just not something I think about when I'm watching the show.
Right, and I might be able to ignore it if the producers didn't keep making allusions to TOS, really hitting home that not only is this a shared meta-narrative, but Discovery and TOS are really close in time. They keep invoking TOS, forcing the comparison and I can't help but wonder why Kirk is driving a Studebaker when the earlier model is a Ferrari. Enterprise at least did a better job downgrading the ship and its tech.
I agree with the more general critique that placing shows in this era (this goes for enterprise too) probably demonstrates a lack of imagination in storytelling and confidence in giving people something new. I think the different series have always had a bit more connective tissue than this critique implies, but it's still pretty fair. Seems like you could set a series post-Nemesis or a tv series in the Kelvin universe or w/e.
Exactly. Set it after Voyager and the tech issues vanish, plus they're liberated in terms of telling stories. Making it a prequel was almost certainly a marketing decision, not an artistic one. Telling the writers that they can only operate between Enterprise and TOS is a hell of a straitjacket, especially when it's all supposed to fit together as one huge story overall.
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Re: Star Trek

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Apr 2019, 3:51pm
Sorry, I meant visually, not thematically. That first season was just allergic to bright and distinct colours. It looked muddy way too often.
Oh yeah, this seems like a trend in new shows in general. When I was watching Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, it was so dark I literally couldn't watch in when the sun was out or you couldn't see what was going on. It's amazing going back to television from prior to this decade and how much easier it is to see what the hell is going on. Even what I think of as "darker" shows like X Files just have a much easier to watch color contrast they work with.
Exactly. Set it after Voyager and the tech issues vanish, plus they're liberated in terms of telling stories. Making it a prequel was almost certainly a marketing decision, not an artistic one. Telling the writers that they can only operate between Enterprise and TOS is a hell of a straitjacket, especially when it's all supposed to fit together as one huge story overall.
The next great Trek series, if this happens at all, is going to be the one that figures out how to push forward with the series essential utopianism while moving past now-discredited New Frontier liberalism and not just get mired in inescapable cynicism. Wherever that takes place on the Trek timeline, that's how the franchise needs to push forward.
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Re: Star Trek

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Flex wrote:
01 Apr 2019, 4:15pm
The next great Trek series, if this happens at all, is going to be the one that figures out how to push forward with the series essential utopianism while moving past now-discredited New Frontier liberalism and not just get mired in inescapable cynicism. Wherever that takes place on the Trek timeline, that's how the franchise needs to push forward.
That is the logical next step if they want to do something distinct, but would that be too out-of-step with what audiences want from sci-fi? If we can appreciate popular culture as a negotiation between producers and consumers, is there enough good will on the part of the audience to accept something more hopeful if it's presented? I'd love to think so, even if only because it would mean that the larger cultural environment is more hopeful, but it's hard to see that any time even medium-soon.
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Re: Star Trek

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my Trek opinion is that Voyager, Enterprise, and Discovery blow, and that there's a lot of bad episodes of TNG and some of TOS too.
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Re: Star Trek

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eumaas wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 6:16pm
and that there's a lot of bad episodes of TNG and some of TOS too.
oh yeah, there's plenty of wretched episodes in both those series. nature of the beast, to some extent. It's interesting, I think during the syndication years both TOS and TNG got even better reputations, as the biggest stinkers were largely not transmitted on reruns, but in the DVD era there's really no avoiding at least the quantity of skippable episodes on both shows (somewhat overstated with TOS and somewhat understated with TNG).
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Re: Star Trek

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Flex wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 6:21pm
It's interesting, I think during the syndication years both TOS and TNG got even better reputations, as the biggest stinkers were largely not transmitted on reruns
That was the cause for the belief that movies and novels were better "in the olden days"—the dreck faded from popular memory, while the cream was replayed and reprinted. It does raise the interesting possibility that the profit motive, technology, and marketing has broken that momentum so that pretty much everything is preserved via dvd or channels that need to broadcast something. Shitty movies from the 80s, say, aren't allowed to fade away. Which means we'll never have that false sense of a lost golden age. Whether that's good or not is different question.
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Re: Star Trek

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eumaas wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 6:16pm
my Trek opinion is that Voyager, Enterprise, and Discovery blow, and that there's a lot of bad episodes of TNG and some of TOS too.
You're solidly in the "DS9 is the best" camp, tho, correct? It's such a funny thing that the series that so broke away from Roddenberry's vision is the one that put together the best cast and generated the most affecting stories.
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Re: Star Trek

Post by eumaas »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 6:30pm
eumaas wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 6:16pm
my Trek opinion is that Voyager, Enterprise, and Discovery blow, and that there's a lot of bad episodes of TNG and some of TOS too.
You're solidly in the "DS9 is the best" camp, tho, correct? It's such a funny thing that the series that so broke away from Roddenberry's vision is the one that put together the best cast and generated the most affecting stories.
After watching it again a couple years back, fresh off of watching TNG, I am solidly a DS9 fan, yeah. It's absolutely the best and has aged the best out of any of them.
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Re: Star Trek

Post by eumaas »

Also, I think there's a lot more hope in DS9 than it has a reputation for.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
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Re: Star Trek

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eumaas wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 6:31pm
Also, I think there's a lot more hope in DS9 than it has a reputation for.
Yeah, it is, arguably, the most humanist of the series. By establishing the ideology and structure of the Federation (and Dominion and Cardassians) as, at best, of mixed value, the good that emerges comes from people resisting that ugliness. Its dark reputation comes from the fact that it rejects Roddenberry's New Frontier liberalism, but it doesn't succumb to a cynical vision of humanity itself. In that respect, DS9 is the most leftist of Star Trek visions.
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Re: Star Trek

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I put TOS slightly ahead of DS9 purely out of nostalgia. In many ways I see it more as an unintended comedy. TNG was a good followup/reboot.

DS9 clearly has the best characters and storylines. Sisco is the best captain hands down. I never watched the Quantum Leap guy series, I tried Voyager I just found it boring as hell. I haven't seen the new pay per view one yet.

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