Star Wars

Sweet action for kids 'n' cretins. Marjoram and capers.
Dr. Medulla
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Re: Star Wars

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Man-baby SW fan: Star Wars taught me to be brave, to face up to any challenge like my hero, Luke Skywalker!
Also man-baby SW fan: I CAN'T DEAL WITH THESE NEW MOVIES! THEY'VE RUINED MY LIFE! I HATE EVERYTHING!
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Star Wars

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Back from the movie. I won't initiate any discussion in case people don't want to be spoiled, etc., but will say that it was a paradoxical experience. It was almost non-stop action—with the exception of a couple lulls—yet I was seriously bored by it all.
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revbob
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Re: Star Wars

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
25 Dec 2019, 4:05pm
Back from the movie. I won't initiate any discussion in case people don't want to be spoiled, etc., but will say that it was a paradoxical experience. It was almost non-stop action—with the exception of a couple lulls—yet I was seriously bored by it all.
You and my jaded son should talk.

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Re: Star Wars

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revbob wrote:
25 Dec 2019, 6:05pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
25 Dec 2019, 4:05pm
Back from the movie. I won't initiate any discussion in case people don't want to be spoiled, etc., but will say that it was a paradoxical experience. It was almost non-stop action—with the exception of a couple lulls—yet I was seriously bored by it all.
You and my jaded son should talk.
I didn't go into it expecting that reaction. I loved The Force Awakens and despite serious reservations about similar pacing problems with The Last Jedi, I was fine with that story (and respect the thematic thrust, if not entirely agree with it). Everything I'd read suggested this was going to be an entertaining bad movie, but it's all so rushed that I couldn't get invested in anything. This one felt like a shrug.
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Flex
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Re: Star Wars

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YOU MADE ONE MISTAKE, LENNON, YOU DOUBLE CROSSED MIKE LOVE AND LEFT HIM ALIVE

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Re: Star Wars

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Flex wrote:
25 Dec 2019, 8:14pm
My review (spoilers I suppose): https://letterboxd.com/flexflexerson/fi ... skywalker/
I disagree that it's a complete rejection of what Johnson introduced to the narrative. The idea of rejecting or breaking free of your past, of rejecting destiny, was still the major narrative thrust here. I expected the film to be a return to the premodern guides of the first seven episodes—cyclical narrative, people chosen to act out a larger epic drams—but it continued TLJ's modernist precepts of individuals making their own story and a linear narrative that can be broken or shifted by individuals. I'd argue that that runs counter to Lucas' vision for the Skywalker saga, which is about destiny and being chosen and the like. That more modernist vision plays out well in Rogue One and Solo, but feels out of place in the main movies, so the last two movies feel off to me within the Skywalker story.

I didn't have a problem with many of the unanswered questions that are bugging people (e.g., how did Palpatine survive? where'd all these new Force skills come from?). Who cares? Star Wars has always been about just introducing things to move shit along. We just go with it. That's nerdish obsession that largely misses the point.

Beyond the manic pacing that nullifies any kind of character investment—even ones that we know well—my main criticism is that I can't see a reason for this movie's existence from a narrative point of view. Return of the Jedi existed to settle what happened to Han Solo and to settle the conflict between Luke and Vader. Revenge of the Sith existed to explain how Anakin becomes Vader, Obi-Wan ends up in exile, and Luke and Leia are separated. Those are entirely defensible, even required, reasons within the larger story. I can't really think of a good reason why this movie was required in terms of the narrative. It ends all the Skywalkers, sure, but is that necessary? It can't be about concluding the war because Star Wars has always been primarily about the personal conflict, playing out amidst a wider conflict (as this film demonstrates). Is there a deep, burning reason to settle Rey's background or Ren's future? I'm doubtful. And because this last episode was so meh, it kinda negates the whole point of the third trilogy (from a narrative, not a profit-driven sense). If we were presented with a proposal that included the full narrative, Episodes I to IX, I'd be inclined to tell the person pitching it to just stop after Jedi. Which is a shame as I found Rey the most inspiring hero figure of the entire saga. Oh well, as I said before, Star Wars requires that each of us edit as we go, keeping what we like and ignoring what we don't.

edit: Ugh. Rejection, not recapitulation.
Last edited by Dr. Medulla on 26 Dec 2019, 7:16am, edited 1 time in total.
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revbob
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Re: Star Wars

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I just enjoyed it in general. I will agree that having CGi Carrie Fischer was a little unsettling and the brief appearances of of Felicity and Naomi Ackie weren't really that crucial to.

Lesser than the originals but greater than the prequels.

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Re: Star Wars

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
25 Dec 2019, 4:05pm
Back from the movie. I won't initiate any discussion in case people don't want to be spoiled, etc., but will say that it was a paradoxical experience. It was almost non-stop action—with the exception of a couple lulls—yet I was seriously bored by it all.
I enjoyed the movie, but the non-stop action raised my anxiety. It was too much for me. Way too much. The lulls weren't long enough to recover from the previous intense moment and those action moments went on for so long. Agghhh! By the middle of the movie, I was reteaching myself how to breathe. lol Still, I liked it a lot more than I thought I would. A few things drove me batty, but SW movies aren't perfect. I loved the ending. *sniff*

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Re: Star Wars

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Mimi wrote:
26 Dec 2019, 5:47pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
25 Dec 2019, 4:05pm
Back from the movie. I won't initiate any discussion in case people don't want to be spoiled, etc., but will say that it was a paradoxical experience. It was almost non-stop action—with the exception of a couple lulls—yet I was seriously bored by it all.
I enjoyed the movie, but the non-stop action raised my anxiety. It was too much for me. Way too much. The lulls weren't long enough to recover from the previous intense moment and those action moments went on for so long. Agghhh! By the middle of the movie, I was reteaching myself how to breathe. lol Still, I liked it a lot more than I thought I would. A few things drove me batty, but SW movies aren't perfect. I loved the ending. *sniff*
So true—even the best ones have clunky aspects to them. Glad you liked it. :cool:
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Flex
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Re: Star Wars

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
25 Dec 2019, 9:08pm
I disagree that it's a complete rejection of what Johnson introduced to the narrative. The idea of rejecting or breaking free of your past, of rejecting destiny, was still the major narrative thrust here. I expected the film to be a return to the premodern guides of the first seven episodes—cyclical narrative, people chosen to act out a larger epic drams—but it continued TLJ's modernist precepts of individuals making their own story and a linear narrative that can be broken or shifted by individuals. I'd argue that that runs counter to Lucas' vision for the Skywalker saga, which is about destiny and being chosen and the like. That more modernist vision plays out well in Rogue One and Solo, but feels out of place in the main movies, so the last two movies feel off to me within the Skywalker story.
I didn't really pick up on any of the themes you cite. Seemed like more cyclical Powerful Bloodlines of the Force Fulfilling Their Destinies stuff to me. And I hated the way they had luke dismiss everything he said in TLJ out of hand, when that stuff was the best and most thoughtful treatment of Jedi in the entire franchise (which, tallest dwarf syndrome maybe).
I didn't have a problem with many of the unanswered questions that are bugging people (e.g., how did Palpatine survive? where'd all these new Force skills come from?). Who cares? Star Wars has always been about just introducing things to move shit along. We just go with it. That's nerdish obsession that largely misses the point.
Yeah, that's just a symptom of needing to think everything needs to fit into coherent Wookiepedia entries. Just an awful way to engage with media.
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Re: Star Wars

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Flex wrote:
26 Dec 2019, 11:34pm
I didn't really pick up on any of the themes you cite. Seemed like more cyclical Powerful Bloodlines of the Force Fulfilling Their Destinies stuff to me. And I hated the way they had luke dismiss everything he said in TLJ out of hand, when that stuff was the best and most thoughtful treatment of Jedi in the entire franchise (which, tallest dwarf syndrome maybe).
The only idea of destiny in this one is Palpatine claiming that Rey is destined to succeed him by killing him in anger (assuming he's being truthful). Both Rey and Ben act to reject paths and end any notion of a cycle (i.e., let the past die). There's nothing fated about any of it. I'll grant that it's not presented as clearly as Johnson broke from the previous movies, and one could read predictions and destinies of balancing the Force and all that stuff if they want, but I think that requires a lot more effort on the part of the audience.
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Re: Star Wars

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Flex,
...obvious candidate for Film of the Year for the alt-right.
, is this meant to be tongue in cheek ?

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Star Wars

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On a much more positive note, we watched the final episode of the first season of The Mandalorian this morning. The series is a whole lotta fun, along the lines of Solo (people living outside the law, by their own code, but mostly seeking to do the right thing). Since Disney took over, it would seem that the results with non-Skywalker stuff (Rogue One, Solo, Mandalorian) have been much more satisfying than the main movies. Suggestive, perhaps, that now that there's still reason to believe that there's still some fun Star Wars ahead now that they don't have to worry about fitting things into Lucas' narrative.
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Flex
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Re: Star Wars

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revbob wrote:
27 Dec 2019, 8:03am
Flex,
...obvious candidate for Film of the Year for the alt-right.
, is this meant to be tongue in cheek ?
No, not really.
YOU MADE ONE MISTAKE, LENNON, YOU DOUBLE CROSSED MIKE LOVE AND LEFT HIM ALIVE

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Flex
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Re: Star Wars

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
27 Dec 2019, 7:40am
and one could read predictions and destinies of balancing the Force and all that stuff if they want, but I think that requires a lot more effort on the part of the audience.
It requires effort in that one has to try to pick through the incredibly badly written script, but in the absence of any meaningful discussion of free will or choice, this seemed like the obvious path to me. It just seemed like a deliberately cyclical replay of the last trilogy where the Vader like guy sacrifices himself to kill palpatine. In movies, free will is usually signalled by breaking behavioral patterns, not just cycling through the same actions over and over again.

Addendum: I guess all the re-embracing of the Jedi, and rejection of everything said about the need for the Jedi to die in TLJ, that Rey did and the note-for-note recreation of the Vader arc for Kylo seemed like they were rejecting the "let the past die" stuff. In fact, Rey has the entire past living within her and defining her identity.
YOU MADE ONE MISTAKE, LENNON, YOU DOUBLE CROSSED MIKE LOVE AND LEFT HIM ALIVE

Sous les pavés, la plage.

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