The Future of the Democratic Party

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Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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Flex wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 4:08pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 3:40pm
A very sensible point that if Democrats think Castro was mean to suggest Biden is senile, what do they think Trump will say to him?
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... ry-884047/
on the one hand, the inability to roll with a single, mild jab that gets at a serious issue that voters care about (namely, Biden's aged decrepitude leading to his brains dribbling out his mouth every time he speaks) should be a massive red flag that he's going to be utterly destroyed by Trump in the general. On the other hand, the "civility lecturers" are probably mostly speaking from a cynical calculus recognizing that if you stigmatize criticism of fellow candidates the biggest beneficiary will be the centrist, establishment-favored front-runner who can skate through the primary with minimal pushback from fellow candidates until it's too late.

Like it or not, you gotta unseat the king from the throne. That requires landing some punches that will actually make people change their support from him. It necessarily means tearing him down. If folks aren't okay with that, why the fuck do we have primaries at all? Let's just annoint the incoherent, rambling geriatric with bloodily explosive body parts to go lose to Trump right now and save us all the brainpower and energy.

I also like the article's larger point that the opposition to Trump requires a real, decisive anti-racist candidate and Biden is absolutely not up to that task.
Back in the late 70s, Reagan invented the 11th Commandment for Republicans, which was Thou shalt not attack other Republicans. Which sounds like a noble call for civility, but was mainly said to immunize himself from criticism from within the party. You're right that this is all about protecting the cold-porridge centrist candidates. I liked Castro's comment in one of the post-debate interviews that this about electing the US president, not a student council president, so unclutch those pearls.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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Bullshit. Castro was splitting hairs over the details of a health care public option, looking for the first opportunity to attack Biden and try a Hail Mary to raise his poll numbers from less than one percent after months of trying. If this is a race for President of the United States, as he says, he for one has no reason being in it.

Andrew Yang is running for Student Body President.

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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Anyone born after 1960!
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Flex
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
14 Sep 2019, 3:30am
Bullshit. Castro was splitting hairs over the details of a health care public option, looking for the first opportunity to attack Biden and try a Hail Mary to raise his poll numbers from less than one percent after months of trying.
Biden was, as usual, incoherently misrepresenting his own health care plan, making a statement that you'd be able to buy into an option and then (contradicting his own written policy) intimating coverage would be automatic. Opt in vs automatic coverage would make a massive difference in enrollment rates (despite PolitiFact's fact-free assertions to the contrary) and is definitely not a minor point or technicality. If we end up developing a "public option" type program in this country, automatic enrollment when you lose other coverage is going to be critical to its success. Castro was right to push him on it and point out he contradicted himself within minutes. Policy details matter (as does the mental acuity of a presidential candidate).
If this is a race for President of the United States, as he says, he for one has no reason being in it.
Castro has the most in depth, progressive housing policy of any candidate, and has developed excellent planks around immigration (where, frankly, he helped push the debate earlier in the election cycle) and animal welfare that are distinct from other candidates. If you've heard him interviewed, he offers a distinctly humane and moral vision of the presidency. He's polling too far behind at this point, but he's a substantive candidate who's hung in there so far for a reason. He should probably drop out, but that's a criticism I'd have of anyone who's not in the top 3. Singling out Castro for that complaint seems weird.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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The reason it’s hair splitting is because none of the proposals, or policy details, will become law as discussed in the debates. Any new law would be put through the sausage grinder and Bernie’s fond wish that it could be handled in reconciliation would depend on people like Joe Manchin. As for singling out Castro, it’s only in reaction to his line that this is not a race for Student Council. I agree that he has offered substance. There are other candidates without a base of support too.

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
14 Sep 2019, 3:49pm
The reason it’s hair splitting is because none of the proposals, or policy details, will become law as discussed in the debates. Any new law would be put through the sausage grinder and Bernie’s fond wish that it could be handled in reconciliation would depend on people like Joe Manchin. As for singling out Castro, it’s only in reaction to his line that this is not a race for Student Council. I agree that he has offered substance. There are other candidates without a base of support too.
I think that's a structural problem with the debates and voter interest in general, people want to hear a bunch about the candidates on issues they have mostly symbolic influence over (although I wouldn't discount the importance of the leader of the party's views moving the party as a whole in that direction. Most of the base of the party looks to the president for cues on what policies to support. A Biden presidency and Sanders presidency would both move the median Democratic voters position to different spots and influence the voting calculus of members of Congress). I actually think opt in vs automatic enrollment is the type of nuance that's MORE likely to show up in actual policymaking than the larger single payer vs public option debate that we see. Any reforms to the ACA that actually do get made would likely have room for this discussion, for example, and it's useful to know where the frontrunner stands (in a bad spot, in my view).

I agree that the debates should focus more on staffing cabinet positions and agencies, regulatory policy, executive orders and foreign policy which are all things the president can directly manage and control, but it seems unlikely we'll ever get that.

I do think the climate Town Halls (another event where Biden performed dreadfully on both substance and style) were a good showcase in how the presidency functions as a way to move the overton window even if a lot of the specific policies being discussed are unlikely to be passed in their current form. The mix of minimal legislative authority but high degree of cultural influence makes the category of "what the presidential candidates should talk about" sort of weird.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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Yes. But I also agree with Jamelle Bouie who thinks they should be more “vague.” People certainly want a health care fix. Hilary campaigned on the public option, while Obama did not. Yet voters perceived Obama as being farther “left” than he ever was. The president is an avatar. Does this vote make me look fat? It’s like a band T-shirt.

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
14 Sep 2019, 4:30pm
Yes. But I also agree with Jamelle Bouie who thinks they should be more “vague.” People certainly want a health care fix. Hilary campaigned on the public option, while Obama did not. Yet voters perceived Obama as being farther “left” than he ever was. The president is an avatar. Does this vote make me look fat? It’s like a band T-shirt.
Well, Obama definitely campaigned on the public option even though he lied about it later: https://thinkprogress.org/flashback-oba ... cbf31b6e0/

I think Obama's leadership style was a disaster for the institutional left, and the atrophy he allowed within the party under his watch is, to me, evidence that we need someone with a little more ideological commitment to progressivism as a project than what Obama brought to the table. Part of that, I think, is having clearly defined goals that you struggle towards.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/09/ ... igure.html

Warren as the acceptable consensus pick is the curious development that I wasn't expecting, but it does seem to be emerging based on both polling and the media narrative around her. I guessed that when Biden finally collapsed while talking about the importance of Commodore 64's in the home and the dangers of breakdancing, it would be someone like Harris who would become the centrist choice against Comrades Sanders or Warren. The possibility of Sanders and Warren being the last two standing is bizarre to consider.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
16 Sep 2019, 10:59am
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/09/ ... igure.html

Warren as the acceptable consensus pick is the curious development that I wasn't expecting, but it does seem to be emerging based on both polling and the media narrative around her. I guessed that when Biden finally collapsed while talking about the importance of Commodore 64's in the home and the dangers of breakdancing, it would be someone like Harris who would become the centrist choice against Comrades Sanders or Warren. The possibility of Sanders and Warren being the last two standing is bizarre to consider.
Good news, imo
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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Silent Majority wrote:
16 Sep 2019, 1:15pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
16 Sep 2019, 10:59am
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/09/ ... igure.html

Warren as the acceptable consensus pick is the curious development that I wasn't expecting, but it does seem to be emerging based on both polling and the media narrative around her. I guessed that when Biden finally collapsed while talking about the importance of Commodore 64's in the home and the dangers of breakdancing, it would be someone like Harris who would become the centrist choice against Comrades Sanders or Warren. The possibility of Sanders and Warren being the last two standing is bizarre to consider.
Good news, imo
I was saying to Flex the other day that what impresses me about Warren is that her approach has been to elevate discourse at her rallies, to talk about approaches, their goals, and why. And being rather bold (for American politics). If she's reaching voters by not demeaning them with bland cliches and generalities—as if they're too dumb or their attention spans too short—does that have the effect of making other candidates look more superficial? Campaigns aren't just about winning or losing elections but building competency (or tearing it down) of the electorate. I was wary of her several years ago, but she's come to impress.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
16 Sep 2019, 2:06pm
Silent Majority wrote:
16 Sep 2019, 1:15pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
16 Sep 2019, 10:59am
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/09/ ... igure.html

Warren as the acceptable consensus pick is the curious development that I wasn't expecting, but it does seem to be emerging based on both polling and the media narrative around her. I guessed that when Biden finally collapsed while talking about the importance of Commodore 64's in the home and the dangers of breakdancing, it would be someone like Harris who would become the centrist choice against Comrades Sanders or Warren. The possibility of Sanders and Warren being the last two standing is bizarre to consider.
Good news, imo
I was saying to Flex the other day that what impresses me about Warren is that her approach has been to elevate discourse at her rallies, to talk about approaches, their goals, and why. And being rather bold (for American politics). If she's reaching voters by not demeaning them with bland cliches and generalities—as if they're too dumb or their attention spans too short—does that have the effect of making other candidates look more superficial? Campaigns aren't just about winning or losing elections but building competency (or tearing it down) of the electorate. I was wary of her several years ago, but she's come to impress.
This is me, as well. I was very wary of her, but she has impressed me quite a bit. I like her approach and you outlined it well. You're completely right that campaigns are not purely about winning or losing elections. Sure, we want our candidate to win - but this idea that we're also building up or evolving the electorate is also important.

I'm really impressed by the scope of her proposals - which go far beyond what one might traditionally see as her base. I hope people are listening.
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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de Blasionomics was probably going to sprain too many tongues anyway. (Yes, I know I sorta made that joke already.)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-e ... d-n1056791
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
20 Sep 2019, 9:07am
de Blasionomics was probably going to sprain too many tongues anyway. (Yes, I know I sorta made that joke already.)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-e ... d-n1056791
I didn't have much interest in him, but I admit I rolled my eyes at the New Yorker contempt for the guy. In the white male catgeory of candidate, he seemed in the upper half of progressivism and didn't embarrass himself in the debates. The antipathy seemed like the kind of intra-new York jerkoff stuff that I'm naturally inclined to find insufferable.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑20 Sep 2019, 9:07am
de Blasionomics was probably going to sprain too many tongues anyway. (Yes, I know I sorta made that joke already.)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-e ... d-n1056791
I didn't have much interest in him, but I admit I rolled my eyes at the New Yorker contempt for the guy. In the white male catgeory of candidate, he seemed in the upper half of progressivism and didn't embarrass himself in the debates. The antipathy seemed like the kind of intra-new York jerkoff stuff that I'm naturally inclined to find insufferable.
He never really carved a distinct lane for himself, say, like Inslee did on climate change. So that's one thing.

The other is that you had polls there suggesting that three-quarters of New Yorkers didn't want him to run. That sounds less intra-jerkoff, and more of the local folks saying, "Forget 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, we want you here, minding the store." It's pretty hard to imagine getting anywhere nationally when you face that kind of antipathy in your own backyard.

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