The Dictator observations thread.

Politics and other such topical creams.
Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

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"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

revbob
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 12:57pm
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True enough.

Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

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revbob wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 1:30pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 12:57pm
Image
True enough.
Mind you, that could also serve as a critique of a lot of the post-60s left, which has focused on cultural matters rather than the traditional economic/class questions.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 1:44pm
revbob wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 1:30pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 12:57pm
Image
True enough.
Mind you, that could also serve as a critique of a lot of the post-60s left, which has focused on cultural matters rather than the traditional economic/class questions.
True but also the failure of left/working class to otherwise be inclusive of issues of race/gender etc. Its obvious with some of old guard left like Bernie who is still a bit short sighted on matters of race . Not to mention good old conservative working class racism

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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

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revbob wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 2:02pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 1:44pm
revbob wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 1:30pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 12:57pm
Image
True enough.
Mind you, that could also serve as a critique of a lot of the post-60s left, which has focused on cultural matters rather than the traditional economic/class questions.
True but also the failure of left/working class to otherwise be inclusive of issues of race/gender etc. Its obvious with some of old guard left like Bernie who is still a bit short sighted on matters of race . Not to mention good old conservative working class racism
Definitely, definitely. I don't regard the successes of the left of the past 50 years in areas of race, sex, and gender to be failures, only that those kinds of victories aren't as inconsistent with capitalism's endurance as a concentrated class fight. Those wins make daily life more tolerable for a lot of people marginalized and oppressed for a long time, but I see them as not especially touching the greater malignancy.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

revbob
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 3:25pm
revbob wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 2:02pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 1:44pm
revbob wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 1:30pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 12:57pm
Image
True enough.
Mind you, that could also serve as a critique of a lot of the post-60s left, which has focused on cultural matters rather than the traditional economic/class questions.
True but also the failure of left/working class to otherwise be inclusive of issues of race/gender etc. Its obvious with some of old guard left like Bernie who is still a bit short sighted on matters of race . Not to mention good old conservative working class racism
Definitely, definitely. I don't regard the successes of the left of the past 50 years in areas of race, sex, and gender to be failures, only that those kinds of victories aren't as inconsistent with capitalism's endurance as a concentrated class fight. Those wins make daily life more tolerable for a lot of people marginalized and oppressed for a long time, but I see them as not especially touching the greater malignancy.
No doubt. Companies will always take the route of most profit

Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

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revbob wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 3:37pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 3:25pm
revbob wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 2:02pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 1:44pm
revbob wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 1:30pm


True enough.
Mind you, that could also serve as a critique of a lot of the post-60s left, which has focused on cultural matters rather than the traditional economic/class questions.
True but also the failure of left/working class to otherwise be inclusive of issues of race/gender etc. Its obvious with some of old guard left like Bernie who is still a bit short sighted on matters of race . Not to mention good old conservative working class racism
Definitely, definitely. I don't regard the successes of the left of the past 50 years in areas of race, sex, and gender to be failures, only that those kinds of victories aren't as inconsistent with capitalism's endurance as a concentrated class fight. Those wins make daily life more tolerable for a lot of people marginalized and oppressed for a long time, but I see them as not especially touching the greater malignancy.
No doubt. Companies will always take the route of most profit
There's the old Marxist line that the capitalist will sell the hope used to hang up; I've suggested that the capitalist will also sell the Rage Against the Machine t-shirt that kids think will bring down the system.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Flex
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

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In the United States, at least, "culture" (race, specifically) is so inextricably linked to class (or, vice versa if one prefers that framing) that I can't really imagine a coherent understanding of class conflict in America that doesn't account for "both" components.

Capitalism co-ops (or tries to co-op) everything.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

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Flex wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 4:08pm
In the United States, at least, "culture" (race, specifically) is so inextricably linked to class (or, vice versa if one prefers that framing) that I can't really imagine a coherent understanding of class conflict in America that doesn't account for "both" components.

Capitalism co-ops (or tries to co-op) everything.
Well, yes, of course, but capitalism is far more able to integrate something like, say, same-sex marriage or transgender rights than labour autonomy or a just redistribution of material resources. It's not a surprise that, for example, MLB fought free agency harder and longer than segregation, or that Jackie Robinson has subsequently been canonized and Curt Flood has not. I'm not dismissing these achievements at all—it has undoubtedly improved the lives of countless people—only that capitalism is far better able to be flexible, even to reinforce its larger precepts thru commodifying formerly ostracized groups, on these cultural matters.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Flex
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by Flex »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 6:40pm
Flex wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 4:08pm
In the United States, at least, "culture" (race, specifically) is so inextricably linked to class (or, vice versa if one prefers that framing) that I can't really imagine a coherent understanding of class conflict in America that doesn't account for "both" components.

Capitalism co-ops (or tries to co-op) everything.
Well, yes, of course, but capitalism is far more able to integrate something like, say, same-sex marriage or transgender rights than labour autonomy or a just redistribution of material resources. It's not a surprise that, for example, MLB fought free agency harder and longer than segregation, or that Jackie Robinson has subsequently been canonized and Curt Flood has not. I'm not dismissing these achievements at all—it has undoubtedly improved the lives of countless people—only that capitalism is far better able to be flexible, even to reinforce its larger precepts thru commodifying formerly ostracized groups, on these cultural matters.
Yeah, I'm just saying you can't have coherent class analysis in the united States without recognizing how race is binded to class here. Which you're not denying, I just get the feeling you're responding to a point I didn't try to make (on purpose, anyways). I certainly don't disagree with you.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

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Flex wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 7:14pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 6:40pm
Flex wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 4:08pm
In the United States, at least, "culture" (race, specifically) is so inextricably linked to class (or, vice versa if one prefers that framing) that I can't really imagine a coherent understanding of class conflict in America that doesn't account for "both" components.

Capitalism co-ops (or tries to co-op) everything.
Well, yes, of course, but capitalism is far more able to integrate something like, say, same-sex marriage or transgender rights than labour autonomy or a just redistribution of material resources. It's not a surprise that, for example, MLB fought free agency harder and longer than segregation, or that Jackie Robinson has subsequently been canonized and Curt Flood has not. I'm not dismissing these achievements at all—it has undoubtedly improved the lives of countless people—only that capitalism is far better able to be flexible, even to reinforce its larger precepts thru commodifying formerly ostracized groups, on these cultural matters.
Yeah, I'm just saying you can't have coherent class analysis in the united States without recognizing how race is binded to class here. Which you're not denying, I just get the feeling you're responding to a point I didn't try to make (on purpose, anyways). I certainly don't disagree with you.
Okay, sorry about the misinterpretation on my part.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Flex
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 7:26pm
Okay, sorry about the misinterpretation on my part.
No worries. Re-reading I see what you were responding to. I just meant that last line as kind of a toss-off thought jogged by the discussion, not a rejoinder or counter-point to anything in particular. That's my not being clear.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

revbob
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

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Why arent there firing squads at his point.

Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

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revbob wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 10:09pm
Why arent there firing squads at his point.
In this thread or in civil society?
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
29 Jan 2022, 7:08am
revbob wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 10:09pm
Why arent there firing squads at his point.
In this thread or in civil society?
Well they'd ineffective here...

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