True enough.
The Dictator observations thread.
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: The Dictator observations thread.
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.
Mind you, that could also serve as a critique of a lot of the post-60s left, which has focused on cultural matters rather than the traditional economic/class questions.
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: The Dictator observations thread.
True but also the failure of left/working class to otherwise be inclusive of issues of race/gender etc. Its obvious with some of old guard left like Bernie who is still a bit short sighted on matters of race . Not to mention good old conservative working class racismDr. Medulla wrote: ↑28 Jan 2022, 1:44pmMind you, that could also serve as a critique of a lot of the post-60s left, which has focused on cultural matters rather than the traditional economic/class questions.
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.
Definitely, definitely. I don't regard the successes of the left of the past 50 years in areas of race, sex, and gender to be failures, only that those kinds of victories aren't as inconsistent with capitalism's endurance as a concentrated class fight. Those wins make daily life more tolerable for a lot of people marginalized and oppressed for a long time, but I see them as not especially touching the greater malignancy.revbob wrote: ↑28 Jan 2022, 2:02pmTrue but also the failure of left/working class to otherwise be inclusive of issues of race/gender etc. Its obvious with some of old guard left like Bernie who is still a bit short sighted on matters of race . Not to mention good old conservative working class racismDr. Medulla wrote: ↑28 Jan 2022, 1:44pmMind you, that could also serve as a critique of a lot of the post-60s left, which has focused on cultural matters rather than the traditional economic/class questions.
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: The Dictator observations thread.
No doubt. Companies will always take the route of most profitDr. Medulla wrote: ↑28 Jan 2022, 3:25pmDefinitely, definitely. I don't regard the successes of the left of the past 50 years in areas of race, sex, and gender to be failures, only that those kinds of victories aren't as inconsistent with capitalism's endurance as a concentrated class fight. Those wins make daily life more tolerable for a lot of people marginalized and oppressed for a long time, but I see them as not especially touching the greater malignancy.revbob wrote: ↑28 Jan 2022, 2:02pmTrue but also the failure of left/working class to otherwise be inclusive of issues of race/gender etc. Its obvious with some of old guard left like Bernie who is still a bit short sighted on matters of race . Not to mention good old conservative working class racismDr. Medulla wrote: ↑28 Jan 2022, 1:44pmMind you, that could also serve as a critique of a lot of the post-60s left, which has focused on cultural matters rather than the traditional economic/class questions.
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.
There's the old Marxist line that the capitalist will sell the hope used to hang up; I've suggested that the capitalist will also sell the Rage Against the Machine t-shirt that kids think will bring down the system.revbob wrote: ↑28 Jan 2022, 3:37pmNo doubt. Companies will always take the route of most profitDr. Medulla wrote: ↑28 Jan 2022, 3:25pmDefinitely, definitely. I don't regard the successes of the left of the past 50 years in areas of race, sex, and gender to be failures, only that those kinds of victories aren't as inconsistent with capitalism's endurance as a concentrated class fight. Those wins make daily life more tolerable for a lot of people marginalized and oppressed for a long time, but I see them as not especially touching the greater malignancy.revbob wrote: ↑28 Jan 2022, 2:02pmTrue but also the failure of left/working class to otherwise be inclusive of issues of race/gender etc. Its obvious with some of old guard left like Bernie who is still a bit short sighted on matters of race . Not to mention good old conservative working class racismDr. Medulla wrote: ↑28 Jan 2022, 1:44pmMind you, that could also serve as a critique of a lot of the post-60s left, which has focused on cultural matters rather than the traditional economic/class questions.
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
- Flex
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.
In the United States, at least, "culture" (race, specifically) is so inextricably linked to class (or, vice versa if one prefers that framing) that I can't really imagine a coherent understanding of class conflict in America that doesn't account for "both" components.
Capitalism co-ops (or tries to co-op) everything.
Capitalism co-ops (or tries to co-op) everything.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.
Well, yes, of course, but capitalism is far more able to integrate something like, say, same-sex marriage or transgender rights than labour autonomy or a just redistribution of material resources. It's not a surprise that, for example, MLB fought free agency harder and longer than segregation, or that Jackie Robinson has subsequently been canonized and Curt Flood has not. I'm not dismissing these achievements at all—it has undoubtedly improved the lives of countless people—only that capitalism is far better able to be flexible, even to reinforce its larger precepts thru commodifying formerly ostracized groups, on these cultural matters.Flex wrote: ↑28 Jan 2022, 4:08pmIn the United States, at least, "culture" (race, specifically) is so inextricably linked to class (or, vice versa if one prefers that framing) that I can't really imagine a coherent understanding of class conflict in America that doesn't account for "both" components.
Capitalism co-ops (or tries to co-op) everything.
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
- Flex
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.
Yeah, I'm just saying you can't have coherent class analysis in the united States without recognizing how race is binded to class here. Which you're not denying, I just get the feeling you're responding to a point I didn't try to make (on purpose, anyways). I certainly don't disagree with you.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑28 Jan 2022, 6:40pmWell, yes, of course, but capitalism is far more able to integrate something like, say, same-sex marriage or transgender rights than labour autonomy or a just redistribution of material resources. It's not a surprise that, for example, MLB fought free agency harder and longer than segregation, or that Jackie Robinson has subsequently been canonized and Curt Flood has not. I'm not dismissing these achievements at all—it has undoubtedly improved the lives of countless people—only that capitalism is far better able to be flexible, even to reinforce its larger precepts thru commodifying formerly ostracized groups, on these cultural matters.Flex wrote: ↑28 Jan 2022, 4:08pmIn the United States, at least, "culture" (race, specifically) is so inextricably linked to class (or, vice versa if one prefers that framing) that I can't really imagine a coherent understanding of class conflict in America that doesn't account for "both" components.
Capitalism co-ops (or tries to co-op) everything.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.
Okay, sorry about the misinterpretation on my part.Flex wrote: ↑28 Jan 2022, 7:14pmYeah, I'm just saying you can't have coherent class analysis in the united States without recognizing how race is binded to class here. Which you're not denying, I just get the feeling you're responding to a point I didn't try to make (on purpose, anyways). I certainly don't disagree with you.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑28 Jan 2022, 6:40pmWell, yes, of course, but capitalism is far more able to integrate something like, say, same-sex marriage or transgender rights than labour autonomy or a just redistribution of material resources. It's not a surprise that, for example, MLB fought free agency harder and longer than segregation, or that Jackie Robinson has subsequently been canonized and Curt Flood has not. I'm not dismissing these achievements at all—it has undoubtedly improved the lives of countless people—only that capitalism is far better able to be flexible, even to reinforce its larger precepts thru commodifying formerly ostracized groups, on these cultural matters.Flex wrote: ↑28 Jan 2022, 4:08pmIn the United States, at least, "culture" (race, specifically) is so inextricably linked to class (or, vice versa if one prefers that framing) that I can't really imagine a coherent understanding of class conflict in America that doesn't account for "both" components.
Capitalism co-ops (or tries to co-op) everything.
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
- Flex
- Mechano-Man of the Future
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- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:50pm
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.
No worries. Re-reading I see what you were responding to. I just meant that last line as kind of a toss-off thought jogged by the discussion, not a rejoinder or counter-point to anything in particular. That's my not being clear.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
Re: The Dictator observations thread.
Why arent there firing squads at his point.
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.
In this thread or in civil society?
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: The Dictator observations thread.
Well they'd ineffective here...