The Future of the Republican Party

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Flex
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Re: The Future of the Republican Party

Post by Flex »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 May 2023, 7:37pm
Flex wrote:
31 May 2023, 7:21pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 May 2023, 7:08pm
Flex wrote:
31 May 2023, 6:40pm
Trump's indictments just increase his support with the republican base.
Maybe. His hold on the party, while still very strong, has eroded some. Which is to say, I'm not convinced that his hold is to the death. The question is whether the base wants to win or it wants the purity of its rage, even if that means losing. I honestly don't know whether they're willing to lose as long it's with their guy.
His hold on the party has actually INCREASED since his legal troubles began: https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/3 ... t-00090001

Republicans make no bones about whether they would support trump as a convicted criminal: https://www.npr.org/2023/04/25/11716609 ... cted-crime

The legal stuff is republican primary gold... for trump.

Addendum: and party leadership is coming back to the trump fold real, real quick: https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/399 ... -dominant/
And yet, I'm unconvinced that additional indictments won't negatively affect him. Even if the charges themselves don't matter to the base, if legal needs inhibit how he presents himself in public, how does his tough guy act work? I'm fundamentally skeptical of the idea that things are pretty much set in stone.
Well, nothing is set in stone, but I think your opinion of republican voters is much higher than mine. I think your IMCT handle needs to be changed to "resident optimist" or something ;)
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

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Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Future of the Republican Party

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Flex wrote:
31 May 2023, 8:13pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 May 2023, 7:37pm
Flex wrote:
31 May 2023, 7:21pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 May 2023, 7:08pm
Flex wrote:
31 May 2023, 6:40pm
Trump's indictments just increase his support with the republican base.
Maybe. His hold on the party, while still very strong, has eroded some. Which is to say, I'm not convinced that his hold is to the death. The question is whether the base wants to win or it wants the purity of its rage, even if that means losing. I honestly don't know whether they're willing to lose as long it's with their guy.
His hold on the party has actually INCREASED since his legal troubles began: https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/3 ... t-00090001

Republicans make no bones about whether they would support trump as a convicted criminal: https://www.npr.org/2023/04/25/11716609 ... cted-crime

The legal stuff is republican primary gold... for trump.

Addendum: and party leadership is coming back to the trump fold real, real quick: https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/399 ... -dominant/
And yet, I'm unconvinced that additional indictments won't negatively affect him. Even if the charges themselves don't matter to the base, if legal needs inhibit how he presents himself in public, how does his tough guy act work? I'm fundamentally skeptical of the idea that things are pretty much set in stone.
Well, nothing is set in stone, but I think your opinion of republican voters is much higher than mine. I think your IMCT handle needs to be changed to "resident optimist" or something ;)
I don't know if it means I have a higher opinion or I'm optimistic. I'm just not convinced that support for Trump is some kind of pure expression rather than a desire to win. If Trump acquires the stink of loser—granted, that should be firmly affixed to his fat ass by now, and yet …—I'm not yet persuaded that the base would be willing to go down with him.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Flex
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Re: The Future of the Republican Party

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 May 2023, 8:30pm
I don't know if it means I have a higher opinion or I'm optimistic. I'm just not convinced that support for Trump is some kind of pure expression rather than a desire to win. If Trump acquires the stink of loser—granted, that should be firmly affixed to his fat ass by now, and yet …—I'm not yet persuaded that the base would be willing to go down with him.
Mmmm, I almost think the opposite. Winning is almost beside the point, except as an almost post-modern concept or aura or something. Heck, DeSantis basically took your assessment and decided to pitch himself as "trump but I actually win" and he's gone nowhere with it. If anything, the base resents him for even implying trump is less than immaculate. The base doesn't really care about winning - putting points on the board, as they say - instead, these troglodytes are fueled entirely by grievance and persecution fantasies. They want things that fuel those twin delusions. The indictments, the legal problems, those just add fuel to the fire of the deranged American conservative mind which, thanks to a fully insular and increasingly radical media ecosystem, has been fully conditioned to simply reject material reality whenever it conflicts with their priors. A majority - majority! - of Republicans believe trump actually won the last presidential election. What is a conviction handed down from the same lying deep state commie federal government when you're secure in the knowledge of the complete and total corruption of the republic by the Jewish-trans cabal? Again, maybe the fever breaks, but given the animating hatreds and grievances consuming the American Right at the moment, the more trouble trump gets into the more he affirms the worldview these fragile fascists so desperately desire to be real (and, frankly, if it keeps an increasingly enfeebled and oafish trump off the campaign trail and potentially shattering the aura of manliness that he's somehow attained, maybe all the better).

And again, I'm not describing a minority here, by all measures available to us. This is the median view of the republican voter in 2023. What's mildly comforting, I suppose, is that no matter how untethered from material reality these lunatics get, I'm like 95% sure now they're far too huge a gaggle of cowards and degenerate losers to turn to widespread armed right wing insurrection in the service of actual fascism. But I'd still rather take that 5% chance off the table and see the end of trump for good, one of these days.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Future of the Republican Party

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What our difference suggests is that I think it’s about politics—they want to win and then do … something … with it, however unformed that is—whereas you’re seeing it as more therapeutic—it’s about rage and grievance, winning or losing a secondary matter. I still lean to the idea that the grievance is a fuel toward a more conventional end—political power—not the end itself. I mean, I admit that I bounce back and forth on this, but the therapeutic version seems like such a cul de sac to, one where Trump can run and run and run until he can’t and the base will back him because it must. It seems so social science, where people act according to models rather than diverse and assessable interests. It just seems too seductive to say they’re nuts and they’ll follow the grifter forever because they’re nuts. I think my skepticism reflects my Gramscian impulses, as he rejected orthodox Marxism as to clean, arguing that the real world is just plain messier and harder to predict because human beings are messy and hard to predict.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Flex
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Re: The Future of the Republican Party

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 May 2023, 9:47pm
What our difference suggests is that I think it’s about politics—they want to win and then do … something … with it, however unformed that is—whereas you’re seeing it as more therapeutic—it’s about rage and grievance, winning or losing a secondary matter. I still lean to the idea that the grievance is a fuel toward a more conventional end—political power—not the end itself. I mean, I admit that I bounce back and forth on this, but the therapeutic version seems like such a cul de sac to, one where Trump can run and run and run until he can’t and the base will back him because it must. It seems so social science, where people act according to models rather than diverse and assessable interests. It just seems too seductive to say they’re nuts and they’ll follow the grifter forever because they’re nuts. I think my skepticism reflects my Gramscian impulses, as he rejected orthodox Marxism as to clean, arguing that the real world is just plain messier and harder to predict because human beings are messy and hard to predict.
I'd say your view was basically what I thought at the beginning of the Trump presidency but the intervening years have changed my mind. Again, I wouldn't say it's immutable, but I also think there's probably close to even chances that when the Trump spell breaks the American Right actually gets worse, rather than better. The American Right's deep reservoirs of hatred and grievance tied to a sense of genuine commitment to material change is, ah, quite a scary thing to contemplate.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Future of the Republican Party

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Flex wrote:
31 May 2023, 9:59pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 May 2023, 9:47pm
What our difference suggests is that I think it’s about politics—they want to win and then do … something … with it, however unformed that is—whereas you’re seeing it as more therapeutic—it’s about rage and grievance, winning or losing a secondary matter. I still lean to the idea that the grievance is a fuel toward a more conventional end—political power—not the end itself. I mean, I admit that I bounce back and forth on this, but the therapeutic version seems like such a cul de sac to, one where Trump can run and run and run until he can’t and the base will back him because it must. It seems so social science, where people act according to models rather than diverse and assessable interests. It just seems too seductive to say they’re nuts and they’ll follow the grifter forever because they’re nuts. I think my skepticism reflects my Gramscian impulses, as he rejected orthodox Marxism as to clean, arguing that the real world is just plain messier and harder to predict because human beings are messy and hard to predict.
I'd say your view was basically what I thought at the beginning of the Trump presidency but the intervening years have changed my mind. Again, I wouldn't say it's immutable, but I also think there's probably close to even chances that when the Trump spell breaks the American Right actually gets worse, rather than better. The American Right's deep reservoirs of hatred and grievance tied to a sense of genuine commitment to material change is, ah, quite a scary thing to contemplate.
The question is whether there's a figure who can hold things together on the right after Trump, or does it amount to a circular firing squad as various groups and wannabe duces seek the title? And given that the right doesn't believe in the validity of elections anymore, how does that get settled? So, yes, I agree that it'll get worse after Trump, but it could end up with a more fractured right whose immediate ambitions is eliminating rivals. Trump's given them the playbook of delegitimation, which they'll use on themselves. At certain point, tho, it burns out. When and how is a huge unknown.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The Future of the Republican Party

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Pence fever: Become afflicted with it!
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mike-pen ... 444c78384f
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The Future of the Republican Party

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
05 Jun 2023, 11:58am
Pence fever: Become afflicted with it!
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mike-pen ... 444c78384f
Who's the guy on the left who looks like Slugworth from Willie Wonka?
Got a Rake? Sure!

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Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Future of the Republican Party

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JennyB wrote:
05 Jun 2023, 1:09pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
05 Jun 2023, 11:58am
Pence fever: Become afflicted with it!
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mike-pen ... 444c78384f
Who's the guy on the left who looks like Slugworth from Willie Wonka?
:lol: It's Buttigieg's husband.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The Future of the Republican Party

Post by JennyB »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
05 Jun 2023, 1:12pm
JennyB wrote:
05 Jun 2023, 1:09pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
05 Jun 2023, 11:58am
Pence fever: Become afflicted with it!
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mike-pen ... 444c78384f
Who's the guy on the left who looks like Slugworth from Willie Wonka?
:lol: It's Buttigieg's husband.
:eek:
Got a Rake? Sure!

IMCT: Inane Middle-Class Twats - Dr. M

" *sigh* it's right when they throw the penis pump out the window." -Hoy

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Re: The Future of the Republican Party

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
05 Jun 2023, 11:58am
Pence fever: Become afflicted with it!
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mike-pen ... 444c78384f
Trump enabler, nuff said.

God, what a mess, on the ladder of success
Where you take one step and miss the whole first rung

Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Future of the Republican Party

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Sparky wrote:
05 Jun 2023, 2:15pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
05 Jun 2023, 11:58am
Pence fever: Become afflicted with it!
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mike-pen ... 444c78384f
Trump enabler, nuff said.

I guess it'll be kind of amusing to watch Trump abuse him anew.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The Future of the Republican Party

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Sparky wrote:
05 Jun 2023, 2:15pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
05 Jun 2023, 11:58am
Pence fever: Become afflicted with it!
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mike-pen ... 444c78384f
Trump enabler, nuff said.

He'll be fellating Trump again in no time.

Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Future of the Republican Party

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revbob wrote:
05 Jun 2023, 6:58pm
Sparky wrote:
05 Jun 2023, 2:15pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
05 Jun 2023, 11:58am
Pence fever: Become afflicted with it!
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mike-pen ... 444c78384f
Trump enabler, nuff said.

He'll be fellating Trump again in no time.
I do enjoy that he allowed himself to be used and abused by a semi-sentient pumpkin for four years, willingly selling out his churchy identity to a total boor who is contemptuous of his values, and as a result his reputation and historical standing is pure dogshit. No constituency can respect him. And he knows it. If he weren't such a knave he'd commit suicide in a last gasp at an honourable deed.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The Future of the Republican Party

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New MAGA motto

God, what a mess, on the ladder of success
Where you take one step and miss the whole first rung

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