The Future of the Democratic Party

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BostonBeaneater
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by BostonBeaneater »

IkarisOne wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:01pm

This is why I always try to be friendly to people waiting tables and working cash registers. It's amazing how the most sour faced cashier or barista brightens when you treat them with respect. I worked plenty of those jobs myself so I know what they have to put up with.
I'm glad you mentioned this. I really try to do the same thing. I also try to tip heavy when I can, especially in diners and cafes. I'm pretty mired in Gen X cynicism and being kind to poor/working poor people is sometime all the fight I can muster.

So far as the election goes, I guess I'll celebrate the side paying a tiny bit of lip service to the pain of the people rather than the side that gleefully stomps on the weak with heavy boots.
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Kory
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Kory »

IkarisOne wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:01pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 2:48pm
IkarisOne wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 1:44pm

Southern California, a feudal Oligarchial hellhole, is the Rockefeller Republican Potemkin Village. Insane privilege surrounded by a permanent serf class and a desperate and destitute throng of homeless. You really have to see it for yourself to believe how dystopian it is. San Francisco and Silicon Valley are the same. Now they want to export that model to the entire world.
When I lived in NYC I used to wonder when there would be no one left to work at Duane Reade. What is the tipping point where people would decide to simply not commute and hour plus to earn $12 an hour? I hear they have to pay supermarket workers $80k a year in Palo Alto just to make it worth it to come in. You figure we couldn't be that far away from general strikes, right? Or have they succeeded in hiring half the poor to keep the other half in line?

Well, I think that's the impetus behind the $15 minimum wage. I don't think it has anything to do with fairness, it's about keeping people at these posts. They'll still be poor but not so poor that they can't even afford to work these jobs.

This is why I always try to be friendly to people waiting tables and working cash registers. It's amazing how the most sour faced cashier or barista brightens when you treat them with respect. I worked plenty of those jobs myself so I know what they have to put up with.
The problem (in Seattle, at least), is that when the minimum wage goes up, landlords feel within their rights to raise rent to the point that the workers are clearing the same amount as they were before their own raises (if they were clearing anything). It's the definition of fucked up.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

IkarisOne
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by IkarisOne »

I should add that like many, many more Americans than realize it, I am actually Native American enough to admitted into some tribes (my great-grandfather was adopted from an "Indian Orphanage" by a family that couldn't have children), so the fact that Warren relied on old family lore to land an affirmative action post at Harvard is just unconscionable. And this is coming from someone who loathes idpol and would never dream of claiming being Native to get a leg up.

BTW My grandfather-- who was the son of a Native American and an Irish immigrant-- got into Harvard long before affirmative action.
Last edited by IkarisOne on 06 Mar 2020, 3:16pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by IkarisOne »

BostonBeaneater wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:10pm
IkarisOne wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:01pm

This is why I always try to be friendly to people waiting tables and working cash registers. It's amazing how the most sour faced cashier or barista brightens when you treat them with respect. I worked plenty of those jobs myself so I know what they have to put up with.
I'm glad you mentioned this. I really try to do the same thing. I also try to tip heavy when I can, especially in diners and cafes. I'm pretty mired in Gen X cynicism and being kind to poor/working poor people is sometime all the fight I can muster.

So far as the election goes, I guess I'll celebrate the side paying a tiny bit of lip service to the pain of the people rather than the side that gleefully stomps on the weak with heavy boots.

Yes, ALWAYS TIP WELL. Given how many Millennials don't tip at all, you can make a difference between having a gallon of milk or loaf of bread for a server's kids or not.

IkarisOne
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by IkarisOne »

Kory wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:10pm
IkarisOne wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:01pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 2:48pm
IkarisOne wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 1:44pm

Southern California, a feudal Oligarchial hellhole, is the Rockefeller Republican Potemkin Village. Insane privilege surrounded by a permanent serf class and a desperate and destitute throng of homeless. You really have to see it for yourself to believe how dystopian it is. San Francisco and Silicon Valley are the same. Now they want to export that model to the entire world.
When I lived in NYC I used to wonder when there would be no one left to work at Duane Reade. What is the tipping point where people would decide to simply not commute and hour plus to earn $12 an hour? I hear they have to pay supermarket workers $80k a year in Palo Alto just to make it worth it to come in. You figure we couldn't be that far away from general strikes, right? Or have they succeeded in hiring half the poor to keep the other half in line?

Well, I think that's the impetus behind the $15 minimum wage. I don't think it has anything to do with fairness, it's about keeping people at these posts. They'll still be poor but not so poor that they can't even afford to work these jobs.

This is why I always try to be friendly to people waiting tables and working cash registers. It's amazing how the most sour faced cashier or barista brightens when you treat them with respect. I worked plenty of those jobs myself so I know what they have to put up with.
The problem (in Seattle, at least), is that when the minimum wage goes up, landlords feel within their rights to raise rent to the point that the workers are clearing the same amount as they were before their own raises (if they were clearing anything). It's the definition of fucked up.


Kory
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Kory »

IkarisOne wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:15pm
Kory wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:10pm
IkarisOne wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:01pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 2:48pm
IkarisOne wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 1:44pm

Southern California, a feudal Oligarchial hellhole, is the Rockefeller Republican Potemkin Village. Insane privilege surrounded by a permanent serf class and a desperate and destitute throng of homeless. You really have to see it for yourself to believe how dystopian it is. San Francisco and Silicon Valley are the same. Now they want to export that model to the entire world.
When I lived in NYC I used to wonder when there would be no one left to work at Duane Reade. What is the tipping point where people would decide to simply not commute and hour plus to earn $12 an hour? I hear they have to pay supermarket workers $80k a year in Palo Alto just to make it worth it to come in. You figure we couldn't be that far away from general strikes, right? Or have they succeeded in hiring half the poor to keep the other half in line?

Well, I think that's the impetus behind the $15 minimum wage. I don't think it has anything to do with fairness, it's about keeping people at these posts. They'll still be poor but not so poor that they can't even afford to work these jobs.

This is why I always try to be friendly to people waiting tables and working cash registers. It's amazing how the most sour faced cashier or barista brightens when you treat them with respect. I worked plenty of those jobs myself so I know what they have to put up with.
The problem (in Seattle, at least), is that when the minimum wage goes up, landlords feel within their rights to raise rent to the point that the workers are clearing the same amount as they were before their own raises (if they were clearing anything). It's the definition of fucked up.

CONSTANTLY in my mind.
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Dr. Medulla »

IkarisOne wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:05pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 2:58pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 2:52pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 10:43am

That seems a fair assessment, and probably reveals something of my own unconscious bias, as I'm more at home in an academic left (tho I still hesitate to consider myself an actual leftist, but whatever), rather than the working-class left. I know that I preferred Warren because of her age and that I think she had a better chance of working with Congress, but it could also be that I recognize that scholarly left style and feel more comfortable with it.
I supported her because I thought she would have been able to get something, anything, done which would be considered progressive. I am just horrified that our only hope to avoid another four years of Trump is Joe Biden.
That's mostly my position. Sanders' vision is closer to what I'd prefer, but I regarded Warren as more likely to get half a loaf, so to speak, should she win.

With all due respect, Doc, I have never trusted Warren. She talks a good game-- I especially want to see Big Tech smashed back down to size-- but she doesn't walk the talk. And her fabulism is a huge red flag. I think the fact that she placed third in her own state shows the esteem her own constituents hold her in.
I don't especially disagree here. I'm just talking about eliminating the awful options—all the loud and proud corporate liberals—and then looking at what's left. It's all very relative, not absolute expression of faith or trust.
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BostonBeaneater
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by BostonBeaneater »

IkarisOne wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:13pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:10pm
IkarisOne wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:01pm

This is why I always try to be friendly to people waiting tables and working cash registers. It's amazing how the most sour faced cashier or barista brightens when you treat them with respect. I worked plenty of those jobs myself so I know what they have to put up with.
I'm glad you mentioned this. I really try to do the same thing. I also try to tip heavy when I can, especially in diners and cafes. I'm pretty mired in Gen X cynicism and being kind to poor/working poor people is sometime all the fight I can muster.

So far as the election goes, I guess I'll celebrate the side paying a tiny bit of lip service to the pain of the people rather than the side that gleefully stomps on the weak with heavy boots.

Yes, ALWAYS TIP WELL. Given how many Millennials don't tip at all, you can make a difference between having a gallon of milk or loaf of bread for a server's kids or not.
Rich people tip like shit too. My buddy is a bartender at a steakhouse and a dive frequently populated with postal works. Guess who tips way better.
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IkarisOne
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by IkarisOne »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:29pm
IkarisOne wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:05pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 2:58pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 2:52pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 10:43am

That seems a fair assessment, and probably reveals something of my own unconscious bias, as I'm more at home in an academic left (tho I still hesitate to consider myself an actual leftist, but whatever), rather than the working-class left. I know that I preferred Warren because of her age and that I think she had a better chance of working with Congress, but it could also be that I recognize that scholarly left style and feel more comfortable with it.
I supported her because I thought she would have been able to get something, anything, done which would be considered progressive. I am just horrified that our only hope to avoid another four years of Trump is Joe Biden.
That's mostly my position. Sanders' vision is closer to what I'd prefer, but I regarded Warren as more likely to get half a loaf, so to speak, should she win.

With all due respect, Doc, I have never trusted Warren. She talks a good game-- I especially want to see Big Tech smashed back down to size-- but she doesn't walk the talk. And her fabulism is a huge red flag. I think the fact that she placed third in her own state shows the esteem her own constituents hold her in.
I don't especially disagree here. I'm just talking about eliminating the awful options—all the loud and proud corporate liberals—and then looking at what's left. It's all very relative, not absolute expression of faith or trust.
I hear that. But I think the Machine has its own prerogatives and if you question them-- even a little-- you get what Bernie and Tulsi got. Even what Howard Dean got back in 2004. He stepped into line awful quick after that.

The extreme scenario is you get what Paul Wellstone got.

IkarisOne
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by IkarisOne »

BostonBeaneater wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:54pm
IkarisOne wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:13pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:10pm
IkarisOne wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:01pm

This is why I always try to be friendly to people waiting tables and working cash registers. It's amazing how the most sour faced cashier or barista brightens when you treat them with respect. I worked plenty of those jobs myself so I know what they have to put up with.
I'm glad you mentioned this. I really try to do the same thing. I also try to tip heavy when I can, especially in diners and cafes. I'm pretty mired in Gen X cynicism and being kind to poor/working poor people is sometime all the fight I can muster.

So far as the election goes, I guess I'll celebrate the side paying a tiny bit of lip service to the pain of the people rather than the side that gleefully stomps on the weak with heavy boots.

Yes, ALWAYS TIP WELL. Given how many Millennials don't tip at all, you can make a difference between having a gallon of milk or loaf of bread for a server's kids or not.
Rich people tip like shit too. My buddy is a bartender at a steakhouse and a dive frequently populated with postal works. Guess who tips way better.
A lot of all kinds of people tip like shit. And they should be ashamed of themselves.

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Silent Majority »

The older generation dying will never help. There'll be a whole new army of dick heads waiting to cash in and replace them. We can't sit around and wait for a generational shift - particularly when we're two generations from the planet becoming uninhabitable.
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Kory
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Kory »

IkarisOne wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:55pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:54pm
IkarisOne wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:13pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:10pm
IkarisOne wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 3:01pm

This is why I always try to be friendly to people waiting tables and working cash registers. It's amazing how the most sour faced cashier or barista brightens when you treat them with respect. I worked plenty of those jobs myself so I know what they have to put up with.
I'm glad you mentioned this. I really try to do the same thing. I also try to tip heavy when I can, especially in diners and cafes. I'm pretty mired in Gen X cynicism and being kind to poor/working poor people is sometime all the fight I can muster.

So far as the election goes, I guess I'll celebrate the side paying a tiny bit of lip service to the pain of the people rather than the side that gleefully stomps on the weak with heavy boots.

Yes, ALWAYS TIP WELL. Given how many Millennials don't tip at all, you can make a difference between having a gallon of milk or loaf of bread for a server's kids or not.
Rich people tip like shit too. My buddy is a bartender at a steakhouse and a dive frequently populated with postal works. Guess who tips way better.
A lot of all kinds of people tip like shit. And they should be ashamed of themselves.
Does the millennial lack of tipping come from their poverty? I and all the other millennials I know are very conscious about this and tip like crazy, upwards of 30–40% at times. Often closer to 80% for a good bartender.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Tipping just encourages lazy people to think they should expect free money. Furthermore, as Ayn Rand says …
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Low Down Low »

Are people generally happy to take jobs that are low on wages/salary but high on tip potential? I've heard of bar workers earning quite good livings but often wondered if that was a general reality or merely concerned a privileged minority.

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by WestwayKid »

Silent Majority wrote:
06 Mar 2020, 4:05pm
The older generation dying will never help. There'll be a whole new army of dick heads waiting to cash in and replace them. We can't sit around and wait for a generational shift - particularly when we're two generations from the planet becoming uninhabitable.
I agree with this. It's long been wishful thinking with me that the old white men would just die off, but I know way too many guys my age who are just as bad.
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