The Future of the Democratic Party

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JennyB
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by JennyB »

Mimi wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 11:58am
WestwayKid wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 11:55am
Silent Majority wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 11:22am
WestwayKid wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 11:10am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
11 Aug 2020, 4:59pm
Ugh, so it's Harris. Of those floated in recent weeks, she probably made the most sense in the mercenary calculus of these things, but picking a top cop goon still stinks.
I've seen a few Trump adds blasting Biden for being soft on crime, so maybe the Harris call was partially based on pushing back on that. I'm sure a lot of thinking went into it like attracting Asian-American voters. I'm not overly enthused by Biden or Harris, but if they can boot Trump and Pence I'm all in. This year feels like just stopping the bleeding...Biden is emergency triage until we can get better treatment for what ails us.
He's a big dirty needle jabbing at the wound, making it worse.
Trump has been so destructive over the past 4 years...I struggle to recognize my own country at times. I know Biden is not an ideal candidate by any means...but the goal still has to be to remove Trump. Biden won't make it worse because it's impossible to be worse than Donald Trump.
This.
Yep.
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Kory
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 1:02pm
Kory wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 12:44pm
I can almost guarantee that once Biden's 4 (2? 3?) years are up (which I doubt he's going to get in the first place), we're going to have another awful republican that will be back on the trump agenda. People will get complacent and the Republicans are going to put forward a candidate that can actually win, as usual. And of course Biden is going to do such a bad job that it will be easy for them to win anyway.
I'll once again play the unaccustomed role (in real life) of Pollyanna to counter this prediction. Another four years means more dead Boomers and Xers. Another four years means more Gen Z kids coming of age. More Latinos coming of age in places like Texas. Demographics matters. It's boring and a bit insulting to abstract and quantify things like that, but it does matter. As well, the stink of Trump isn't going to go away any time soon, and it's important to appreciate that Trumpists and Republicans are a distinct numerical minority in the US. After the Civil War, Republicans won the White House and usually Congress every election but two between Lincoln and Taft—52 years. Part of the reason for that dominance was that in the 19th c, Republicans regularly engaged in a tactic called "waving the bloody shirt," which was to remind voters that Democrats were the party of the South, the villain of the Civil War. Trump is going to be a scarlet T on every Republican for the next decade. Democrats made hay by tarring every Republican for decades after the Depression as a Hoover. It's going to be hard for Republicans to either wipe away the Trump stink or embrace it and build a winning coalition. Once again, it's worth remembering that he beat Clinton by a fluke, aided by the fact that the Democrats decided to go with a lousy candidate who was one of the most hated of all time.

As for Biden/Harris, at best I hope that the demands of the times sufficiently push them in good directions. It's a mistake to think that any politician who is elected gets to be god and bend the world to his or her will, especially in a crisis. They end up being bent more than the world and end up figures that neither they nor their supporters expected or wanted. That's not meant to be taken as a hopeful statement (necessarily), only to suggest that it is rash to think we can see exactly how Biden or Harris would govern based on their careers or campaign.
I like that I can count on you to say reassuring things, because I definitely need them, but my predictions have all pretty much been dead-on since 2015. I've achieved that simply by thinking the worst of every situation, and I don't have any faith that will change after 4 years of being right all the time (not to toot my own nega-horn).
WWK: I feel confident we haven't heard the last from Dr. Harvey Camel.

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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Kory wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 2:48pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 1:02pm
Kory wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 12:44pm
I can almost guarantee that once Biden's 4 (2? 3?) years are up (which I doubt he's going to get in the first place), we're going to have another awful republican that will be back on the trump agenda. People will get complacent and the Republicans are going to put forward a candidate that can actually win, as usual. And of course Biden is going to do such a bad job that it will be easy for them to win anyway.
I'll once again play the unaccustomed role (in real life) of Pollyanna to counter this prediction. Another four years means more dead Boomers and Xers. Another four years means more Gen Z kids coming of age. More Latinos coming of age in places like Texas. Demographics matters. It's boring and a bit insulting to abstract and quantify things like that, but it does matter. As well, the stink of Trump isn't going to go away any time soon, and it's important to appreciate that Trumpists and Republicans are a distinct numerical minority in the US. After the Civil War, Republicans won the White House and usually Congress every election but two between Lincoln and Taft—52 years. Part of the reason for that dominance was that in the 19th c, Republicans regularly engaged in a tactic called "waving the bloody shirt," which was to remind voters that Democrats were the party of the South, the villain of the Civil War. Trump is going to be a scarlet T on every Republican for the next decade. Democrats made hay by tarring every Republican for decades after the Depression as a Hoover. It's going to be hard for Republicans to either wipe away the Trump stink or embrace it and build a winning coalition. Once again, it's worth remembering that he beat Clinton by a fluke, aided by the fact that the Democrats decided to go with a lousy candidate who was one of the most hated of all time.

As for Biden/Harris, at best I hope that the demands of the times sufficiently push them in good directions. It's a mistake to think that any politician who is elected gets to be god and bend the world to his or her will, especially in a crisis. They end up being bent more than the world and end up figures that neither they nor their supporters expected or wanted. That's not meant to be taken as a hopeful statement (necessarily), only to suggest that it is rash to think we can see exactly how Biden or Harris would govern based on their careers or campaign.
I like that I can count on you to say reassuring things, because I definitely need them, but my predictions have all pretty much been dead-on since 2015. I've achieved that simply by thinking the worst of every situation, and I don't have any faith that will change after 4 years of being right all the time (not to toot my own nega-horn).
I wouldn't really call myself optimistic per se—the existential threat is only growing—and I agree with Flex that there is a massive fight over what succeeds neoliberalism, but I nevertheless don't default to ideas that Trump has somehow reshaped the electorate to his advantage or that we know Biden will just pick up where Obama left off. There are always so many moving pieces that are greater than abilities of wannabe kings.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

Kory
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 2:54pm
Kory wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 2:48pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 1:02pm
Kory wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 12:44pm
I can almost guarantee that once Biden's 4 (2? 3?) years are up (which I doubt he's going to get in the first place), we're going to have another awful republican that will be back on the trump agenda. People will get complacent and the Republicans are going to put forward a candidate that can actually win, as usual. And of course Biden is going to do such a bad job that it will be easy for them to win anyway.
I'll once again play the unaccustomed role (in real life) of Pollyanna to counter this prediction. Another four years means more dead Boomers and Xers. Another four years means more Gen Z kids coming of age. More Latinos coming of age in places like Texas. Demographics matters. It's boring and a bit insulting to abstract and quantify things like that, but it does matter. As well, the stink of Trump isn't going to go away any time soon, and it's important to appreciate that Trumpists and Republicans are a distinct numerical minority in the US. After the Civil War, Republicans won the White House and usually Congress every election but two between Lincoln and Taft—52 years. Part of the reason for that dominance was that in the 19th c, Republicans regularly engaged in a tactic called "waving the bloody shirt," which was to remind voters that Democrats were the party of the South, the villain of the Civil War. Trump is going to be a scarlet T on every Republican for the next decade. Democrats made hay by tarring every Republican for decades after the Depression as a Hoover. It's going to be hard for Republicans to either wipe away the Trump stink or embrace it and build a winning coalition. Once again, it's worth remembering that he beat Clinton by a fluke, aided by the fact that the Democrats decided to go with a lousy candidate who was one of the most hated of all time.

As for Biden/Harris, at best I hope that the demands of the times sufficiently push them in good directions. It's a mistake to think that any politician who is elected gets to be god and bend the world to his or her will, especially in a crisis. They end up being bent more than the world and end up figures that neither they nor their supporters expected or wanted. That's not meant to be taken as a hopeful statement (necessarily), only to suggest that it is rash to think we can see exactly how Biden or Harris would govern based on their careers or campaign.
I like that I can count on you to say reassuring things, because I definitely need them, but my predictions have all pretty much been dead-on since 2015. I've achieved that simply by thinking the worst of every situation, and I don't have any faith that will change after 4 years of being right all the time (not to toot my own nega-horn).
I wouldn't really call myself optimistic per se—the existential threat is only growing—and I agree with Flex that there is a massive fight over what succeeds neoliberalism, but I nevertheless don't default to ideas that Trump has somehow reshaped the electorate to his advantage or that we know Biden will just pick up where Obama left off. There are always so many moving pieces that are greater than abilities of wannabe kings.
I'm just saying that we have a grand tradition of stolen elections by now, and I don't see any reason for that to change. But I hope you're right.
WWK: I feel confident we haven't heard the last from Dr. Harvey Camel.

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 2:54pm
and I agree with Flex that there is a massive fight over what succeeds neoliberalism,
if you like my takes on the end of the neo-liberal consensus, you love my takes on dave matthews band!
YOU MADE ONE MISTAKE, LENNON, YOU DOUBLE CROSSED MIKE LOVE AND LEFT HIM ALIVE

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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Kory wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 3:06pm
I'm just saying that we have a grand tradition of stolen elections by now, and I don't see any reason for that to change. But I hope you're right.
I definitely agree with you there, and that would certainly piss in any moderately upbeat assessments I make. But in terms of straight reckoning of the electoral map, I just don't see the population shifts as benefiting their herrenvolk pseudo-democracy aims.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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Flex wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 3:12pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 2:54pm
and I agree with Flex that there is a massive fight over what succeeds neoliberalism,
if you like my takes on the end of the neo-liberal consensus, you love my takes on dave matthews band!
You are the Chuck Todd of DMB takes.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

revbob
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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Flex wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 3:12pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 2:54pm
and I agree with Flex that there is a massive fight over what succeeds neoliberalism,
if you like my takes on the end of the neo-liberal consensus, you love my takes on dave matthews band!
Aren't the two very much related?

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 3:20pm
You are the Chuck Todd of DMB takes.
I'm gonna assume that's a compliment :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
YOU MADE ONE MISTAKE, LENNON, YOU DOUBLE CROSSED MIKE LOVE AND LEFT HIM ALIVE

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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revbob wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 3:20pm
Aren't the two very much related?
yes, as capitalism recedes we will find ourselves living in a perfect, dmb-ian utopia. "Crush" is a tribute to Bakunin, obviously.
YOU MADE ONE MISTAKE, LENNON, YOU DOUBLE CROSSED MIKE LOVE AND LEFT HIM ALIVE

Sous les pavés, la plage.

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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Flex wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 3:23pm
revbob wrote:
12 Aug 2020, 3:20pm
Aren't the two very much related?
yes, as capitalism recedes we will find ourselves living in a perfect, dmb-ian utopia. "Crush" is a tribute to Bakunin, obviously.
I'll be dead and turned to ashes by the time that happens. :cool:
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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Savage

Image

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

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BostonBeaneater wrote:
15 Aug 2020, 9:44am
Savage

Each successive generation of Kennedys seems like they couldn't push a broom without fucking up.
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