The Future of the Democratic Party

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Flex
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Flex » 01 Feb 2019, 12:38pm

The problem is there hasn't been much leadership churn towards the top - the party basically configured itself to run through Obama and then hand off to Chillary and then have a lot of really young folks groom up over that time. Putting all their eggs in that basket has been an obvious leadership disaster.

In the field, I still like Warren, and I even think she has a path towards widespread popularity (her book from some years back, The Two Income Trap, is good broadly popular messaging), but she definitely has her downsides.

A lot got papered over by Obama's preternatural charisma over eight years.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Dr. Medulla » 01 Feb 2019, 12:48pm

Flex wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 12:38pm
A lot got papered over by Obama's preternatural charisma over eight years.
Bingo. He seemed so cutting edge that so many missed the fact that he was a status quo managerial kind of guy. And modern politics is especially personality driven at the expense of structures that it's hard to get those conversations going. AOC is so goddamned valuable for being so charismatic, young, and adept at modern communication, plus she's talking about systematic problems, pushing them into mainstream conversation.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by WestwayKid » 01 Feb 2019, 12:56pm

Flex wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 12:38pm
The problem is there hasn't been much leadership churn towards the top - the party basically configured itself to run through Obama and then hand off to Chillary and then have a lot of really young folks groom up over that time. Putting all their eggs in that basket has been an obvious leadership disaster.

In the field, I still like Warren, and I even think she has a path towards widespread popularity (her book from some years back, The Two Income Trap, is good broadly popular messaging), but she definitely has her downsides.

A lot got papered over by Obama's preternatural charisma over eight years.
I agree. She's still my favorite - I just worry about that path to widespread popularity. I think she has a message that can resonate with a lot of people - but are they willing to give her a chance?
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by WestwayKid » 01 Feb 2019, 12:58pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 12:48pm
Flex wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 12:38pm
A lot got papered over by Obama's preternatural charisma over eight years.
Bingo. He seemed so cutting edge that so many missed the fact that he was a status quo managerial kind of guy. And modern politics is especially personality driven at the expense of structures that it's hard to get those conversations going. AOC is so goddamned valuable for being so charismatic, young, and adept at modern communication, plus she's talking about systematic problems, pushing them into mainstream conversation.
Very telling that she has made enemies within the Democratic establishment. The talking of wanting to primary her is ridiculous...but not shocking.
"If they believed in a place called Kokomo, then so did I." - Michael Edward Love

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Dr. Medulla » 01 Feb 2019, 1:00pm

WestwayKid wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 12:58pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 12:48pm
Flex wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 12:38pm
A lot got papered over by Obama's preternatural charisma over eight years.
Bingo. He seemed so cutting edge that so many missed the fact that he was a status quo managerial kind of guy. And modern politics is especially personality driven at the expense of structures that it's hard to get those conversations going. AOC is so goddamned valuable for being so charismatic, young, and adept at modern communication, plus she's talking about systematic problems, pushing them into mainstream conversation.
Very telling that she has made enemies within the Democratic establishment. The talking of wanting to primary her is ridiculous...but not shocking.
That she's attacked by Republicans and Democrats alike signals a deeper truth about the nature of the two parties.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by WestwayKid » 01 Feb 2019, 1:02pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 1:00pm
WestwayKid wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 12:58pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 12:48pm
Flex wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 12:38pm
A lot got papered over by Obama's preternatural charisma over eight years.
Bingo. He seemed so cutting edge that so many missed the fact that he was a status quo managerial kind of guy. And modern politics is especially personality driven at the expense of structures that it's hard to get those conversations going. AOC is so goddamned valuable for being so charismatic, young, and adept at modern communication, plus she's talking about systematic problems, pushing them into mainstream conversation.
Very telling that she has made enemies within the Democratic establishment. The talking of wanting to primary her is ridiculous...but not shocking.
That she's attacked by Republicans and Democrats alike signals a deeper truth about the nature of the two parties.
Yup...
"If they believed in a place called Kokomo, then so did I." - Michael Edward Love

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by matedog » 01 Feb 2019, 1:03pm

Is Harris' right leaning stance on crime an asset to appeal to moderates or a liability to limit ability to fire up the base?
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by WestwayKid » 01 Feb 2019, 1:19pm

matedog wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 1:03pm
Is Harris' right leaning stance on crime an asset to appeal to moderates or a liability to limit ability to fire up the base?
Hard to say. Her stances on criminal justice are complex and somewhat convoluted. Personally, I think she needs to be honest about her record and if she does that - and doesn't try and spin it - I could be okay with it (maybe). I think there is enough in her past, however, that she's open to attacks from both sides. The left will go after her for being too tough and the right will go after her for the times she wasn't tough enough. There was one case where she apparently didn't seek the death penalty for a cop killer. I don't know the details - but that's something the right will definitely come at her for.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by WestwayKid » 01 Feb 2019, 1:20pm

Any thoughts on Sherrod Brown?
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Rat Patrol » 01 Feb 2019, 6:22pm

WestwayKid wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 1:20pm
Any thoughts on Sherrod Brown?
Solid progressive in the Senate...fucking clownshoes party boss in Ohio.

He's great where he is, but would be a comedy-of-errors in any other role.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by matedog » 13 Feb 2019, 4:44pm

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4298 ... y-exchange

That's how that shit stain should be treated.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Dr. Medulla » 13 Feb 2019, 5:08pm

matedog wrote:
13 Feb 2019, 4:44pm
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4298 ... y-exchange

That's how that shit stain should be treated.
But he has lots of experience, a really long cv!
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Silent Majority » 19 Feb 2019, 10:49am

Bernie running is the best political news of the year.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Dr. Medulla » 19 Feb 2019, 10:53am

Silent Majority wrote:
19 Feb 2019, 10:49am
Bernie running is the best political news of the year.
His best function might be as an unofficial attack dog for Warren, to expose the garbage centrists, and then let her be the electable version of him.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Silent Majority » 19 Feb 2019, 10:57am

Dr. Medulla wrote:
19 Feb 2019, 10:53am
Silent Majority wrote:
19 Feb 2019, 10:49am
Bernie running is the best political news of the year.
His best function might be as an unofficial attack dog for Warren, to expose the garbage centrists, and then let her be the electable version of him.
Also: push her away from her worst inclinations. Someone cutting through bullshit vagueness is exactly what the race needs.

The Hillary/Obama coalition still has enough of a finger on the till not to let him through, but if he did miraculously get the nom, while I think Trump will walk it, Bernard is one of the few I think with a fighting chance.
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