The Trump observations thread

Politics and other such topical creams.
Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Trump observations thread

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oliver wrote:
22 Aug 2022, 8:59am
Howard Beale wrote:
21 Aug 2022, 10:59pm
Not sure "can't afford" is the correct way to frame that argument. Democrats keep trying to implement it and Republicans keep voting against it.
*Some* Democrats have been trying to implement it. Hillary Clinton infamously derided Sanders' call for universal health insurance in 2016 as pie-in-the-sky, and not just because of opposition from Republicans. I remember thinking at the time what a striking admission that America, despite its immense wealth, is a failing state—that it *can't* accomplish what most wealthy and developed nations have done. All the achievements in America's trophy case, that shit is past tense.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The Trump observations thread

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Edit: Too many posts
Last edited by Howard Beale on 22 Aug 2022, 7:36pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Howard Beale »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
22 Aug 2022, 9:43am
oliver wrote:
22 Aug 2022, 8:59am
Howard Beale wrote:
21 Aug 2022, 10:59pm
Not sure "can't afford" is the correct way to frame that argument. Democrats keep trying to implement it and Republicans keep voting against it.
*Some* Democrats have been trying to implement it. Hillary Clinton infamously derided Sanders' call for universal health insurance in 2016 as pie-in-the-sky, and not just because of opposition from Republicans. I remember thinking at the time what a striking admission that America, despite its immense wealth, is a failing state—that it *can't* accomplish what most wealthy and developed nations have done.
Yep, and she also described Medicare for All as a "better idea that will never, EVER come to pass!"

When asked if, by some miracle, M4A were to pass both houses and all he had to do was lift his pen and sign it into law, the president said that he'd... veto it.



Worth noting that he said this during a pandemic in which 12 million people lost their health insurance.


All the achievements in America's trophy case, that shit is past tense.
Hey! Show some pride as an American, like a good Canadian.


Low Down Low
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Re: The Trump observations thread

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Howard Beale wrote:
21 Aug 2022, 10:59pm
Dr. M, thanks for the great and thoughtful response, and the clarification on Russia/Putin/Ukraine—that's a conversation for another thread, but I look forward to having it when time permits. Unfortunately, I haven't really had any free time to post today, but hopefully I will tomorrow.


gkbill wrote:
21 Aug 2022, 2:47pm
Howard Beale wrote:
20 Aug 2022, 10:20pm


[q
The only power that the average American has over a politician is their vote, and their ability to withhold it from said politician.

Preemptively announcing your intent to vote for a candidate before you've extracted concessions from them is, in my opinion, not terribly smart.
Hello,

As always, I enjoy reading the debate here. To your point about withholding my vote, I'm not sure not voting for either candidate accomplishes anything. If I withhold my vote, I'm not sure a candidate makes an effort to win my vote - rather just move on to appeal to someone more easily swayed to vote (squeaky wheel syndrome). In the 2016 election, I feel the vocal and enthusiastic base, while not a majority of Americans, supported Trump sufficiently to win (feeling rather than factual assumption here, admittedly). The lack of voter turnout (~2/3 of Americans voted - at least according to the stats I found) is problematic. If I don't support either candidate, what am I to do?

This leads to the idea of a third party. It would provide more choice for voters as well as (hopefully) preventing the stagnation in legislative bodies. If neither Democrats nor Republicans have a majority, to win a vote would require some cooperation with a 3rd party. Are there problems with my thinking (e.g., from theory to practice)?
As to the specifics of your question: what Doc said. As to third parties in general: yes, I think we should try to build a viable third party. I only vote third party now, there's pretty much no way I'd ever cast another vote for a Democrat (except sometimes at the state level) or a first-time vote for a Republican. The goal for congressional candidates, at least at this stage of the game, wouldn't necessarily be to win, mind you. The strategy would be to get just enough of the vote that Democrats would have to start making concessions to the left as a result.


Low Down Low wrote:
21 Aug 2022, 10:04am
Not to derail the discussion, and on a slight tangent, the notion of having to pick a side, essentially between the bad and the really bad, just makes me feel kinda comforted i don't live under a plurality voting system.
You've mentioned you're from Ireland, right? If so, I envy you—your country seems to produce politicians that actually give a fuck.


I wouldn't say they are very typical of the political landscape here tbh, the consensus view appears to be that we should regard them as something of a "national embarrassment." We might sing songs about James Connolly and Jim Larkin, but the left has never been a particularly significant force here. She's a very intelligent, articulate politician and mostly engaging, he makes me cringe a lot of the time.

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Re: The Trump observations thread

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
22 Aug 2022, 9:43am
oliver wrote:
22 Aug 2022, 8:59am
Howard Beale wrote:
21 Aug 2022, 10:59pm
Not sure "can't afford" is the correct way to frame that argument. Democrats keep trying to implement it and Republicans keep voting against it.
*Some* Democrats have been trying to implement it. Hillary Clinton infamously derided Sanders' call for universal health insurance in 2016 as pie-in-the-sky, and not just because of opposition from Republicans. I remember thinking at the time what a striking admission that America, despite its immense wealth, is a failing state—that it *can't* accomplish what most wealthy and developed nations have done. All the achievements in America's trophy case, that shit is past tense.
Nice idea but I'd rather not see my taxes be filtered down so that some sponger never worked an honest day in his life can get a free health check, I'd rather see them funnelled up into the pocket of some nice billionaire just the way it's always been and never done me any harm, thank you very much.

Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Low Down Low wrote:
23 Aug 2022, 6:16am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
22 Aug 2022, 9:43am
oliver wrote:
22 Aug 2022, 8:59am
Howard Beale wrote:
21 Aug 2022, 10:59pm
Not sure "can't afford" is the correct way to frame that argument. Democrats keep trying to implement it and Republicans keep voting against it.
*Some* Democrats have been trying to implement it. Hillary Clinton infamously derided Sanders' call for universal health insurance in 2016 as pie-in-the-sky, and not just because of opposition from Republicans. I remember thinking at the time what a striking admission that America, despite its immense wealth, is a failing state—that it *can't* accomplish what most wealthy and developed nations have done. All the achievements in America's trophy case, that shit is past tense.
Nice idea but I'd rather not see my taxes be filtered down so that some sponger never worked an honest day in his life can get a free health check, I'd rather see them funnelled up into the pocket of some nice billionaire just the way it's always been and never done me any harm, thank you very much.
Damn right! Maybe don't work three jobs if you don't want your body to break down. I swear, everybody wants a piece of my inheritance.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Low Down Low
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Low Down Low »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
23 Aug 2022, 6:34am
Low Down Low wrote:
23 Aug 2022, 6:16am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
22 Aug 2022, 9:43am
oliver wrote:
22 Aug 2022, 8:59am
Howard Beale wrote:
21 Aug 2022, 10:59pm
Not sure "can't afford" is the correct way to frame that argument. Democrats keep trying to implement it and Republicans keep voting against it.
*Some* Democrats have been trying to implement it. Hillary Clinton infamously derided Sanders' call for universal health insurance in 2016 as pie-in-the-sky, and not just because of opposition from Republicans. I remember thinking at the time what a striking admission that America, despite its immense wealth, is a failing state—that it *can't* accomplish what most wealthy and developed nations have done. All the achievements in America's trophy case, that shit is past tense.
Nice idea but I'd rather not see my taxes be filtered down so that some sponger never worked an honest day in his life can get a free health check, I'd rather see them funnelled up into the pocket of some nice billionaire just the way it's always been and never done me any harm, thank you very much.
Damn right! Maybe don't work three jobs if you don't want your body to break down. I swear, everybody wants a piece of my inheritance.
Yeah, it's all take, take, take with some people isnt it? They think they've got it bad what with not being able to afford basic health care or pay their heating bills or whatnot, but they have no idea what it is like to be part of the "squeezed middle", how it feels to have only 2 foreign breaks a year when you've been used to 4 for so many years. No idea at all!

Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Low Down Low wrote:
23 Aug 2022, 7:31am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
23 Aug 2022, 6:34am
Low Down Low wrote:
23 Aug 2022, 6:16am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
22 Aug 2022, 9:43am
oliver wrote:
22 Aug 2022, 8:59am


Not sure "can't afford" is the correct way to frame that argument. Democrats keep trying to implement it and Republicans keep voting against it.
*Some* Democrats have been trying to implement it. Hillary Clinton infamously derided Sanders' call for universal health insurance in 2016 as pie-in-the-sky, and not just because of opposition from Republicans. I remember thinking at the time what a striking admission that America, despite its immense wealth, is a failing state—that it *can't* accomplish what most wealthy and developed nations have done. All the achievements in America's trophy case, that shit is past tense.
Nice idea but I'd rather not see my taxes be filtered down so that some sponger never worked an honest day in his life can get a free health check, I'd rather see them funnelled up into the pocket of some nice billionaire just the way it's always been and never done me any harm, thank you very much.
Damn right! Maybe don't work three jobs if you don't want your body to break down. I swear, everybody wants a piece of my inheritance.
Yeah, it's all take, take, take with some people isnt it? They think they've got it bad what with not being able to afford basic health care or pay their heating bills or whatnot, but they have no idea what it is like to be part of the "squeezed middle", how it feels to have only 2 foreign breaks a year when you've been used to 4 for so many years. No idea at all!
Yeah, blah blah blah, dignity, I'm scared, this isn't right. You know what isn't right? I bought a new Mac laptop with the M1 chip last year and they've already replaced it with the M2. I look like a hobo now!
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Trump observations thread

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"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The Trump observations thread

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Howard - I am curious to know where you live. If you are in a hard red state like I am or a blue/purple state.

I am far more concerned right now about state level issues. I am going to vote for the Dem candidate no matter what because they aren't the ones who are going to try and prohibit (now that abortion is fully illegal here) someone from travelling across state lines to obtain a safe medical procedure. I am going to vote blue no matter what because they aren't the ones who are going to try and take away my access to birth control, I am going to vote blue no matter what because they aren't trying to prohibit the teaching of CRT in the classroom. I am going to vote blue no matter what because they aren't trying to take away the agency of trans kids and their families.

I am fully aware that many of them aren't supportive of issues that I support like Medicare for all, etc, but right now, the Republicans in my state are actively trying to kill people.
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Howard Beale »

JennyB wrote:
23 Aug 2022, 11:00am
Howard - I am curious to know where you live. If you are in a hard red state like I am or a blue/purple state.

I am far more concerned right now about state level issues. I am going to vote for the Dem candidate no matter what because they aren't the ones who are going to try and prohibit (now that abortion is fully illegal here) someone from travelling across state lines to obtain a safe medical procedure. I am going to vote blue no matter what because they aren't the ones who are going to try and take away my access to birth control, I am going to vote blue no matter what because they aren't trying to prohibit the teaching of CRT in the classroom. I am going to vote blue no matter what because they aren't trying to take away the agency of trans kids and their families.

I am fully aware that many of them aren't supportive of issues that I support like Medicare for all, etc, but right now, the Republicans in my state are actively trying to kill people.
JennyB—thank you for your perspective. I'm in California *ducks barrage of rotting vegetables*

I know, I know. I totally get where you're coming from and I have much more to say (when I have some time to write it all out) to clarify my position on certain things that I think might've been misinterpreted—my fault, obviously, as I could've communicated it better. Apologies to anyone if I came across as dickish or judgmental about their specific voting habits as that wasn't my intention; my vitriol is always meant to be aimed at the ruling political class, not anyone here. I have every bit as much hatred for the Republican Party, but just felt like I would've been preaching to the choir. As I mentioned earlier, I do still sometimes vote Dem at the state level.



P.S. Thanks for all the on-the-ground work that you do. You're a huge inspiration to the folks here and an example we should all follow.

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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by JennyB »

Howard Beale wrote:
23 Aug 2022, 12:18pm
JennyB wrote:
23 Aug 2022, 11:00am
Howard - I am curious to know where you live. If you are in a hard red state like I am or a blue/purple state.

I am far more concerned right now about state level issues. I am going to vote for the Dem candidate no matter what because they aren't the ones who are going to try and prohibit (now that abortion is fully illegal here) someone from travelling across state lines to obtain a safe medical procedure. I am going to vote blue no matter what because they aren't the ones who are going to try and take away my access to birth control, I am going to vote blue no matter what because they aren't trying to prohibit the teaching of CRT in the classroom. I am going to vote blue no matter what because they aren't trying to take away the agency of trans kids and their families.

I am fully aware that many of them aren't supportive of issues that I support like Medicare for all, etc, but right now, the Republicans in my state are actively trying to kill people.
JennyB—thank you for your perspective. I'm in California *ducks barrage of rotting vegetables*

I know, I know. I totally get where you're coming from and I have much more to say (when I have some time to write it all out) to clarify my position on certain things that I think might've been misinterpreted—my fault, obviously, as I could've communicated it better. Apologies to anyone if I came across as dickish or judgmental about their specific voting habits as that wasn't my intention; my vitriol is always meant to be aimed at the ruling political class, not anyone here. I have every bit as much hatred for the Republican Party, but just felt like I would've been preaching to the choir. As I mentioned earlier, I do still sometimes vote Dem at the state level.



P.S. Thanks for all the on-the-ground work that you do. You're a huge inspiration to the folks here and an example we should all follow.
Thank you - I appreciate it! It's all so frustrating.
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by x3em »

I find that engaging with suspected trolls doesn't lead anywhere. At best they are useful idiots carrying water for someone else, and these days there is a non-zero chance it is something more sinister.

Do not waste your vote wherever you live goes without saying. Objectively this is more true today than it has been for a long time. Purity tests are rarely helpful and more likely to be counter productive. A pragmatic approach for realistic and incremental improvements towards your actual goals, and to hold the line against creeping (or outright) fascism is the only logical approach.

Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

La grosse orange issued a rambling whine on Pravda this morning. Maybe something new is coming his way that he's heard about?
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Sparky »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
25 Aug 2022, 12:20pm
La grosse orange issued a rambling whine on Pravda this morning. Maybe something new is coming his way that he's heard about?
Nah, he's "as innocent as a person can be", just ask him.

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/i-am-as- ... ial-posts/
God, what a mess, on the ladder of success
Where you take one step and miss the whole first rung

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