The Trump observations thread

Politics and other such topical creams.
matedog
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Re: The Trump observations thread

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eumaas wrote:
16 Sep 2020, 2:58pm
My mom is on the fringe of it too. Believes in really weird shit, like secret Roman bloodlines.
You mentioned she was a Trump supporter when we hung out last summer. I'm sorry to hear this. My parents are fortunately seemingly fed up with Trump, but they are also not on social media, so that probably helps.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

matedog
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Re: The Trump observations thread

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I've got a friend who is really dumb to put it bluntly and he's a big Trump guy who just moved to Iowa. I find his fb post and comment threads illuminating. One recently was about Biden and climate change. Someone responded explaining the quote to him and got the following comments:
"I feel bad for you if that’s all you have to run on. Myself and my family have thrived the last “4” years because of Trump. Also not me but very many other people."
"Me too and gave me pride back in our country" (my friend)

It's fascinating how so much could be going wrong, yet this is your takeaway on the state of affairs. I think Trump makes it okay to be complacent, maintain the status quo. You don't need to question your privilege, it doesn't exist. Everything is fine the way it is, you don't have to give anything up because you are right.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

revbob
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Re: The Trump observations thread

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eumaas wrote:
16 Sep 2020, 2:58pm
My mom is on the fringe of it too. Believes in really weird shit, like secret Roman bloodlines.
Yeah Ive already been shut out to some degree by relatives for making what I would call pretty basic truths about Trump. The bullshit about injecting disinfectant and treating people with UV-C light along with him basically being a privileged bully who has little respect for civility or other people in general. That got me disinvited from family zoom calls and group emails.

Im sure Im seen by some as the one who married the black lady and she somehow twisted my beliefs etc

Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Trump observations thread

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matedog wrote:
16 Sep 2020, 5:29pm
I've got a friend who is really dumb to put it bluntly and he's a big Trump guy who just moved to Iowa. I find his fb post and comment threads illuminating. One recently was about Biden and climate change. Someone responded explaining the quote to him and got the following comments:
"I feel bad for you if that’s all you have to run on. Myself and my family have thrived the last “4” years because of Trump. Also not me but very many other people."
"Me too and gave me pride back in our country" (my friend)

It's fascinating how so much could be going wrong, yet this is your takeaway on the state of affairs. I think Trump makes it okay to be complacent, maintain the status quo. You don't need to question your privilege, it doesn't exist. Everything is fine the way it is, you don't have to give anything up because you are right.
This kind of ties in with the Tom Frank book I just finished listening to (see the Reading thread). I do kind of get the resentment of a lot of these Trump people who know they are being mocked and dismissed by liberals. You're not as smart as us, your opinions don't count, if you're not successful like us, it's your own fault. Their very existence is considered valueless by the educated class. And so Trump does feel like the revenge of the marginalized. He's their fantasy—an asshole who says what he wants and drives the liberals crazy and he never apologizes. And he's in charge—everyone has to pay attention to him. I bounce back and forth between being irritated by our liberal and left scolding culture and getting fed up with bigoted assholes who refused to farther than their front yard and privilege gut thinking.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

revbob
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Re: The Trump observations thread

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
16 Sep 2020, 5:51pm
matedog wrote:
16 Sep 2020, 5:29pm
I've got a friend who is really dumb to put it bluntly and he's a big Trump guy who just moved to Iowa. I find his fb post and comment threads illuminating. One recently was about Biden and climate change. Someone responded explaining the quote to him and got the following comments:
"I feel bad for you if that’s all you have to run on. Myself and my family have thrived the last “4” years because of Trump. Also not me but very many other people."
"Me too and gave me pride back in our country" (my friend)

It's fascinating how so much could be going wrong, yet this is your takeaway on the state of affairs. I think Trump makes it okay to be complacent, maintain the status quo. You don't need to question your privilege, it doesn't exist. Everything is fine the way it is, you don't have to give anything up because you are right.
This kind of ties in with the Tom Frank book I just finished listening to (see the Reading thread). I do kind of get the resentment of a lot of these Trump people who know they are being mocked and dismissed by liberals. You're not as smart as us, your opinions don't count, if you're not successful like us, it's your own fault. Their very existence is considered valueless by the educated class. And so Trump does feel like the revenge of the marginalized. He's their fantasy—an asshole who says what he wants and drives the liberals crazy and he never apologizes. And he's in charge—everyone has to pay attention to him. I bounce back and forth between being irritated by our liberal and left scolding culture and getting fed up with bigoted assholes who refused to farther than their front yard and privilege gut thinking.
So that is a HUGE part of this problem for me. In my mind if you're stuck hating people of color, non-Christians, gay people etc the chasm is just too fucking wide. And there's plenty of educated and well off people who support this asshole agenda.

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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by gkbill »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
16 Sep 2020, 5:51pm
matedog wrote:
16 Sep 2020, 5:29pm
I've got a friend who is really dumb to put it bluntly and he's a big Trump guy who just moved to Iowa. I find his fb post and comment threads illuminating. One recently was about Biden and climate change. Someone responded explaining the quote to him and got the following comments:
"I feel bad for you if that’s all you have to run on. Myself and my family have thrived the last “4” years because of Trump. Also not me but very many other people."
"Me too and gave me pride back in our country" (my friend)

It's fascinating how so much could be going wrong, yet this is your takeaway on the state of affairs. I think Trump makes it okay to be complacent, maintain the status quo. You don't need to question your privilege, it doesn't exist. Everything is fine the way it is, you don't have to give anything up because you are right.
This kind of ties in with the Tom Frank book I just finished listening to (see the Reading thread). I do kind of get the resentment of a lot of these Trump people who know they are being mocked and dismissed by liberals. You're not as smart as us, your opinions don't count, if you're not successful like us, it's your own fault. Their very existence is considered valueless by the educated class. And so Trump does feel like the revenge of the marginalized. He's their fantasy—an asshole who says what he wants and drives the liberals crazy and he never apologizes. And he's in charge—everyone has to pay attention to him. I bounce back and forth between being irritated by our liberal and left scolding culture and getting fed up with bigoted assholes who refused to farther than their front yard and privilege gut thinking.
Hello,

I get a lot of this from friends who support Trump (yes, I still have friends who support Trump - although it's a bit of a challenge at times). I agree with your point about being upset with both left and right. I also think Trump supporters live out the Bowie (from Law) line:"I don't want knowledge, I want certainty." As times become more uncertain (especially for middle/lower-class white people), they want to be sure of things.

Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Trump observations thread

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revbob wrote:
16 Sep 2020, 7:01pm
So that is a HUGE part of this problem for me. In my mind if you're stuck hating people of color, non-Christians, gay people etc the chasm is just too fucking wide. And there's plenty of educated and well off people who support this asshole agenda.
Yeah, it's where I'm torn between believing that much of racism and homophobia, etc is driven by economic insecurity and just being a fucking selfish asshole who is driven by status. I can find the possibility of redemption in the former, but condemn to the pit the latter. Again, political vs. therapeutic.
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Re: The Trump observations thread

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gkbill wrote:
16 Sep 2020, 7:07pm
Hello,

I get a lot of this from friends who support Trump (yes, I still have friends who support Trump - although it's a bit of a challenge at times). I agree with your point about being upset with both left and right. I also think Trump supporters live out the Bowie (from Law) line:"I don't want knowledge, I want certainty." As times become more uncertain (especially for middle/lower-class white people), they want to be sure of things.
As I'm reading for this punk seminar I'm prepping for, one of the things that's leaping out to me is the punk tendency to privilege personal experience over "book learning." Even a contempt for the latter. It reads like the Trump supporters (and before that the Bush supporters). Personal experience is that certainty—I know what I know. Knowledge (via focused reading and consideration) often results in more doubt. So, yeah, again it comes back to that idea of gut thinking or personal experience. And it's not like experience is a bad perspective. It adds a valuable component to learning, especially when it complicates the formal learning. I'd never argue against the importance of our first-hand knowledge. But it's not always superior to book learning. Sometimes it is, but sometimes the critical, more remote position is superior. That's what both sides get wrong—they want to be right rather than want to better understand, even if it's always going to be incomplete understanding. I can't help but think we'd all be better off if we were more humble and regarded our understandings of the world as tentative.
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Re: The Trump observations thread

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My mom and I are constantly on the precipice of cutting ties. She contends that it's my liberal college professors that brainwashed me, whereas I contend that it was she who taught me to care about other people, to share, to accept others—she just didn't mean for me to believe any of it after I turned 18 I guess.
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Re: The Trump observations thread

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Image

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Re: The Trump observations thread

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BostonBeaneater wrote:
18 Sep 2020, 10:19am
Just makes you think what if we'd had a strong leader who had gotten out in front of this right away? Country sure would look different right now (in my opinion).
"Geoff who takes kids camping is dead all the boys except Rusty are missing." - revbob
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Re: The Trump observations thread

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Kory wrote:
17 Sep 2020, 8:03pm
My mom and I are constantly on the precipice of cutting ties. She contends that it's my liberal college professors that brainwashed me, whereas I contend that it was she who taught me to care about other people, to share, to accept others—she just didn't mean for me to believe any of it after I turned 18 I guess.
That's a helluva response.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

revbob
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Re: The Trump observations thread

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Kory wrote:
17 Sep 2020, 8:03pm
My mom and I are constantly on the precipice of cutting ties. She contends that it's my liberal college professors that brainwashed me, whereas I contend that it was she who taught me to care about other people, to share, to accept others—she just didn't mean for me to believe any of it after I turned 18 I guess.
So the latest narrative being pushed by the right is that the liberal brainwashing actually starts in elementary school with unamerican teaching.

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Re: The Trump observations thread

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revbob wrote:
18 Sep 2020, 11:50am
Kory wrote:
17 Sep 2020, 8:03pm
My mom and I are constantly on the precipice of cutting ties. She contends that it's my liberal college professors that brainwashed me, whereas I contend that it was she who taught me to care about other people, to share, to accept others—she just didn't mean for me to believe any of it after I turned 18 I guess.
So the latest narrative being pushed by the right is that the liberal brainwashing actually starts in elementary school with unamerican teaching.
To the right, the only teacher above suspicion is named coach.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

Kory
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Re: The Trump observations thread

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revbob wrote:
18 Sep 2020, 11:50am
Kory wrote:
17 Sep 2020, 8:03pm
My mom and I are constantly on the precipice of cutting ties. She contends that it's my liberal college professors that brainwashed me, whereas I contend that it was she who taught me to care about other people, to share, to accept others—she just didn't mean for me to believe any of it after I turned 18 I guess.
So the latest narrative being pushed by the right is that the liberal brainwashing actually starts in elementary school with unamerican teaching.
Oh I know, the most recent argument was about how we should defund public schools because they're "teaching kids to hate america." My aunt jumped in on that one, and it was in response to a post about COVID, and how their viewpoint sounds ridiculous (or it would to them) if you replace "sacrifice the weak to save the economy" with "sacrifice the rich to save the economy." Fuckers can't even stay on topic.
WWK: I feel confident we haven't heard the last from Dr. Harvey Camel.

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