You seem to have a lot more faith in the general public and lawmakers than I do. This Is England and if it can be fucked up then so shall it be.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:21pmBut if the lawmakers are stuck at finding a strategy supported by a majority, it makes sense to consult the electorate directly and with more specificity for what they should do. And if the public, having considered the issue further, now think it's a bad idea altogether, that seems smarter than forcing them to go along with the mood of a few years ago. That Parliament can't get it done is what makes a second, more specific and binding vote a viable way out.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:15pmSee this is my problem. Democracy and the people have spoken even though I believe it to be a huge mistake. Vote again and you'll be voting and re-voting on every bloody subject from here to eternity.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:07pmHold another referendum, ranked ballot, with the various proposals including status quo, then bind lawmakers to the result.
It sets a bad precedent even though the country will suffer. All those people that came out at the weekend to show their respects for the armistice who believe their loved ones fought for democracy and a better world and now we get to this shit.
Brexit what Brexit!
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Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
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Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Lawmakers, no; people, yes. Regardless, I'm mainly talking about a means out of an impasse.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:27pmYou seem to have a lot more faith in the general public and lawmakers than I do. This Is England and if it can be fucked up then so shall it be.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:21pmBut if the lawmakers are stuck at finding a strategy supported by a majority, it makes sense to consult the electorate directly and with more specificity for what they should do. And if the public, having considered the issue further, now think it's a bad idea altogether, that seems smarter than forcing them to go along with the mood of a few years ago. That Parliament can't get it done is what makes a second, more specific and binding vote a viable way out.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:15pmSee this is my problem. Democracy and the people have spoken even though I believe it to be a huge mistake. Vote again and you'll be voting and re-voting on every bloody subject from here to eternity.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:07pmHold another referendum, ranked ballot, with the various proposals including status quo, then bind lawmakers to the result.
It sets a bad precedent even though the country will suffer. All those people that came out at the weekend to show their respects for the armistice who believe their loved ones fought for democracy and a better world and now we get to this shit.
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
- Marky Dread
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Re: Brexit what Brexit!
The solution to this gordian knot of British politics seems a simple one. However I think a referendum will only strengthen the Brexiteers resolve. There is a whole band of an older generation that will not be shifted in their stance and they hold a lot of power. The young and the sensible might take to the streets in what appears to be huge numbers but their number is small compared to these armchair voters.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:57pmLawmakers, no; people, yes. Regardless, I'm mainly talking about a means out of an impasse.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:27pmYou seem to have a lot more faith in the general public and lawmakers than I do. This Is England and if it can be fucked up then so shall it be.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:21pmBut if the lawmakers are stuck at finding a strategy supported by a majority, it makes sense to consult the electorate directly and with more specificity for what they should do. And if the public, having considered the issue further, now think it's a bad idea altogether, that seems smarter than forcing them to go along with the mood of a few years ago. That Parliament can't get it done is what makes a second, more specific and binding vote a viable way out.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:15pmSee this is my problem. Democracy and the people have spoken even though I believe it to be a huge mistake. Vote again and you'll be voting and re-voting on every bloody subject from here to eternity.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:07pmHold another referendum, ranked ballot, with the various proposals including status quo, then bind lawmakers to the result.
It sets a bad precedent even though the country will suffer. All those people that came out at the weekend to show their respects for the armistice who believe their loved ones fought for democracy and a better world and now we get to this shit.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: Brexit what Brexit!
If the No side can't win on a second try, so be it. The point is to achieve some kind of stamp of legitimacy on an actual plan, whether it's hard leave, soft leave, stay, or some other option.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:11pmThe solution to this gordian knot of British politics seems a simple one. However I think a referendum will only strengthen the Brexiteers resolve. There is a whole band of an older generation that will not be shifted in their stance and they hold a lot of power. The young and the sensible might take to the streets in what appears to be huge numbers but their number is small compared to these armchair voters.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:57pmLawmakers, no; people, yes. Regardless, I'm mainly talking about a means out of an impasse.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:27pmYou seem to have a lot more faith in the general public and lawmakers than I do. This Is England and if it can be fucked up then so shall it be.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:21pmBut if the lawmakers are stuck at finding a strategy supported by a majority, it makes sense to consult the electorate directly and with more specificity for what they should do. And if the public, having considered the issue further, now think it's a bad idea altogether, that seems smarter than forcing them to go along with the mood of a few years ago. That Parliament can't get it done is what makes a second, more specific and binding vote a viable way out.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:15pm
See this is my problem. Democracy and the people have spoken even though I believe it to be a huge mistake. Vote again and you'll be voting and re-voting on every bloody subject from here to eternity.
It sets a bad precedent even though the country will suffer. All those people that came out at the weekend to show their respects for the armistice who believe their loved ones fought for democracy and a better world and now we get to this shit.
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
- Marky Dread
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Re: Brexit what Brexit!
I don't believe in a second try. I also feel it will be an even bigger shock than first time around. The people won in a majority first time out and the government who created this bloody mess needs to sort it out and respect that majority. Is WWIII an option?Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:20pmIf the No side can't win on a second try, so be it. The point is to achieve some kind of stamp of legitimacy on an actual plan, whether it's hard leave, soft leave, stay, or some other option.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:11pmThe solution to this gordian knot of British politics seems a simple one. However I think a referendum will only strengthen the Brexiteers resolve. There is a whole band of an older generation that will not be shifted in their stance and they hold a lot of power. The young and the sensible might take to the streets in what appears to be huge numbers but their number is small compared to these armchair voters.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:57pmLawmakers, no; people, yes. Regardless, I'm mainly talking about a means out of an impasse.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:27pmYou seem to have a lot more faith in the general public and lawmakers than I do. This Is England and if it can be fucked up then so shall it be.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:21pm
But if the lawmakers are stuck at finding a strategy supported by a majority, it makes sense to consult the electorate directly and with more specificity for what they should do. And if the public, having considered the issue further, now think it's a bad idea altogether, that seems smarter than forcing them to go along with the mood of a few years ago. That Parliament can't get it done is what makes a second, more specific and binding vote a viable way out.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
Re: Brexit what Brexit!
There wasn't a majority here in Scotland, we voted to stay in bigger numbers than the 'Yes' vote won on a national basis (% wise). We were also lied to a couple of years earlier when we were told the only way for Scotland to stay in the EU was to vote 'No' in our referendum for our own country. This episode has swayed a lot of the deluded Scots who will not fall for that again.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:26pmI don't believe in a second try. I also feel it will be an even bigger shock than first time around. The people won in a majority first time out and the government who created this bloody mess needs to sort it out and respect that majority. Is WWIII an option?Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:20pmIf the No side can't win on a second try, so be it. The point is to achieve some kind of stamp of legitimacy on an actual plan, whether it's hard leave, soft leave, stay, or some other option.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:11pmThe solution to this gordian knot of British politics seems a simple one. However I think a referendum will only strengthen the Brexiteers resolve. There is a whole band of an older generation that will not be shifted in their stance and they hold a lot of power. The young and the sensible might take to the streets in what appears to be huge numbers but their number is small compared to these armchair voters.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:57pmLawmakers, no; people, yes. Regardless, I'm mainly talking about a means out of an impasse.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:27pm
You seem to have a lot more faith in the general public and lawmakers than I do. This Is England and if it can be fucked up then so shall it be.
- 101Walterton
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Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Brexit would be a lot less painful if every time they say Ireland on the news they don’t say it in a ridiculous OTT Irish accent!!!
What is with that? No one says Wales in a Welsh accent (apart from the Welsh) or Scotland, America, Australia so why Ireland.
Or is this just a NZ thing?
What is with that? No one says Wales in a Welsh accent (apart from the Welsh) or Scotland, America, Australia so why Ireland.
Or is this just a NZ thing?
- Marky Dread
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Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Yep I hear you mate. I purposely only mentioned England further up the thread. Scotland should be recognised as it's own country with devolution and become the automous body it craves to be. I would happily become a Scot regards to Brexit.dave202 wrote: ↑15 Nov 2018, 2:18pmThere wasn't a majority here in Scotland, we voted to stay in bigger numbers than the 'Yes' vote won on a national basis (% wise). We were also lied to a couple of years earlier when we were told the only way for Scotland to stay in the EU was to vote 'No' in our referendum for our own country. This episode has swayed a lot of the deluded Scots who will not fall for that again.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:26pmI don't believe in a second try. I also feel it will be an even bigger shock than first time around. The people won in a majority first time out and the government who created this bloody mess needs to sort it out and respect that majority. Is WWIII an option?Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:20pmIf the No side can't win on a second try, so be it. The point is to achieve some kind of stamp of legitimacy on an actual plan, whether it's hard leave, soft leave, stay, or some other option.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:11pmThe solution to this gordian knot of British politics seems a simple one. However I think a referendum will only strengthen the Brexiteers resolve. There is a whole band of an older generation that will not be shifted in their stance and they hold a lot of power. The young and the sensible might take to the streets in what appears to be huge numbers but their number is small compared to these armchair voters.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 5:57pm
Lawmakers, no; people, yes. Regardless, I'm mainly talking about a means out of an impasse.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
- Marky Dread
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Re: Brexit what Brexit!
I've not noticed it on the news here must be NZ thing.101Walterton wrote: ↑15 Nov 2018, 2:52pmBrexit would be a lot less painful if every time they say Ireland on the news they don’t say it in a ridiculous OTT Irish accent!!!
What is with that? No one says Wales in a Welsh accent (apart from the Welsh) or Scotland, America, Australia so why Ireland.
Or is this just a NZ thing?
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
- 101Walterton
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Re: Brexit what Brexit!
All the plastic Paddies do it now as well. They kiss the Blarney Stone and get pissed on Guinness in Dublin and all of a sudden they can’t pronounce Ireland. It really annoys me. Get off my lawn!!!Marky Dread wrote: ↑15 Nov 2018, 3:13pmI've not noticed it on the news here must be NZ thing.101Walterton wrote: ↑15 Nov 2018, 2:52pmBrexit would be a lot less painful if every time they say Ireland on the news they don’t say it in a ridiculous OTT Irish accent!!!
What is with that? No one says Wales in a Welsh accent (apart from the Welsh) or Scotland, America, Australia so why Ireland.
Or is this just a NZ thing?
Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Good to hear. I'm not a 'Nationalist at all costs', but I just think we are a nation and able to self-govern, and the (slight) difference is better served by looking after ourselves.Marky Dread wrote: ↑15 Nov 2018, 3:12pmYep I hear you mate. I purposely only mentioned England further up the thread. Scotland should be recognised as it's own country with devolution and become the automous body it craves to be. I would happily become a Scot regards to Brexit.dave202 wrote: ↑15 Nov 2018, 2:18pmThere wasn't a majority here in Scotland, we voted to stay in bigger numbers than the 'Yes' vote won on a national basis (% wise). We were also lied to a couple of years earlier when we were told the only way for Scotland to stay in the EU was to vote 'No' in our referendum for our own country. This episode has swayed a lot of the deluded Scots who will not fall for that again.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:26pmI don't believe in a second try. I also feel it will be an even bigger shock than first time around. The people won in a majority first time out and the government who created this bloody mess needs to sort it out and respect that majority. Is WWIII an option?Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:20pmIf the No side can't win on a second try, so be it. The point is to achieve some kind of stamp of legitimacy on an actual plan, whether it's hard leave, soft leave, stay, or some other option.Marky Dread wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018, 6:11pm
The solution to this gordian knot of British politics seems a simple one. However I think a referendum will only strengthen the Brexiteers resolve. There is a whole band of an older generation that will not be shifted in their stance and they hold a lot of power. The young and the sensible might take to the streets in what appears to be huge numbers but their number is small compared to these armchair voters.
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Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Isn’t it time for Ireland to be reunited?
If the unifying cause of Brexit doesn’t do it nothing will.
If the unifying cause of Brexit doesn’t do it nothing will.
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Silent Majority
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Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Not with the DUP the only thing keeping the Tories in power.101Walterton wrote: ↑16 Nov 2018, 4:53pmIsn’t it time for Ireland to be reunited?
If the unifying cause of Brexit doesn’t do it nothing will.
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Re: Brexit what Brexit!
This.Silent Majority wrote: ↑16 Nov 2018, 5:48pmNot with the DUP the only thing keeping the Tories in power.101Walterton wrote: ↑16 Nov 2018, 4:53pmIsn’t it time for Ireland to be reunited?
If the unifying cause of Brexit doesn’t do it nothing will.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
- 101Walterton
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Re: Brexit what Brexit!
Aren’t the DUP against Brexit?Marky Dread wrote: ↑16 Nov 2018, 7:19pmThis.Silent Majority wrote: ↑16 Nov 2018, 5:48pmNot with the DUP the only thing keeping the Tories in power.101Walterton wrote: ↑16 Nov 2018, 4:53pmIsn’t it time for Ireland to be reunited?
If the unifying cause of Brexit doesn’t do it nothing will.
I know politicians don’t want unified Ireland but the Irish on both sides dont want a border between them. That is a good start.