A Long Hot Summer begins (a dumpster fire chat)

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BostonBeaneater
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Re: A Long Hot Summer begins (a dumpster fire chat)

Post by BostonBeaneater »

muppet hi fi wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 8:01pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 7:53pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 7:35pm

Beanie - do you know anyone in the US Military - Guard, Reserves or active duty? Or even veterans? I know quite a few. I'm related to a couple. To a man/woman, they all despise Trump, and mostly (from what I've gleaned) are liberals/Democrats or left-leaning libertarians.
I do. Some were friends and others are family. I'd say 80% are in the cult and have no problem seeing the police and military brutalize American people in the streets.
Yeah? These peeps all fellow Massholes? :mrgreen:

Ya know, man - with your sweeping statement "The US Military might shoot it's own people in the streets tonight" (with no context or links or any other commentary), sounds like one of Trumps tweets. Cause fear with no back story. Dude, are you getting off on this shit?
No, I think it's awful, shameful stuff. The president just ordered his goons to gas people so he could have a photo op. I don't know if you have been watching any of the news but from what I am seeing the military and cops very well might shoot people in the streets tonight.

Where are you getting your news? If anyone is out to create a sense of terror tonight it is the US government.
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Re: A Long Hot Summer begins (a dumpster fire chat)

Post by muppet hi fi »

BostonBeaneater wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 8:08pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 8:01pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 7:53pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 7:35pm

Beanie - do you know anyone in the US Military - Guard, Reserves or active duty? Or even veterans? I know quite a few. I'm related to a couple. To a man/woman, they all despise Trump, and mostly (from what I've gleaned) are liberals/Democrats or left-leaning libertarians.
I do. Some were friends and others are family. I'd say 80% are in the cult and have no problem seeing the police and military brutalize American people in the streets.
Yeah? These peeps all fellow Massholes? :mrgreen:

Ya know, man - with your sweeping statement "The US Military might shoot it's own people in the streets tonight" (with no context or links or any other commentary), sounds like one of Trumps tweets. Cause fear with no back story. Dude, are you getting off on this shit?
No, I think it's awful, shameful stuff. The president just ordered his goons to gas people so he could have a photo op. I don't know if you have been watching any of the news but from what I am seeing the military and cops very well might shoot people in the streets tonight.

Where are you getting your news? If anyone is out to create a sense of terror tonight it is the US government.
I'm living the "news" right here in central St. Paul, guy. And aside from seeing it firsthand (I don't drive so walk everywhere), I'm getting from regular broadcast TV stations here: WCCO, KSTP or Kare11 (not channel 9, which is Fox). And of course PBS (ch. 2), MPR, NPR, and of course CNN since they are ubiquitous. Mostly online media with links, since I don't own a TV.
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Re: A Long Hot Summer begins (a dumpster fire chat)

Post by BostonBeaneater »

muppet hi fi wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 8:17pm

I'm living the "news" right here in central St. Paul, guy. And aside from seeing it firsthand (I don't drive so walk everywhere), I'm getting from regular broadcast TV stations here: WCCO, KSTP or Kare11 (not channel 9, which is Fox). And of course PBS (ch. 2), MPR, NPR, and of course CNN since they are ubiquitous. Mostly online media with links, since I don't own a TV.

I don't know what the fuck you're being pissy with me over? Is it because I think the cops and military are bootlicking goons? When I see cop cars run over protesters I think they're goons. When the president calls in the military to crush the protesters I get a little alarmed. I watched, in person, a peaceful protest of unarmed people with signs suddenly turn violent when cops in riot gear show up I think it's fishy. So, I'm sorry, what the fuck did I say to you that was so wrong. I am not making any of this up.
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Re: A Long Hot Summer begins (a dumpster fire chat)

Post by Inder »

muppet hi fi wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 8:01pm
Ya know, man - with your sweeping statement "The US Military might shoot it's own people in the streets tonight" (with no context or links or any other commentary), sounds like one of Trumps tweets. Cause fear with no back story. Dude, are you getting off on this shit?
???????

Like half an hour ago, the president said this:
I am mobilizing all available federal resources civilian and military to stop the rioting and looting to end the destruction and arson and to protect the rights of law abiding Americans, including your Second Amendment rights.

I am also taking swift and decisive action to protect our great capital, Washington, D.C. What happened in this city last night was a total disgrace. As we speak, I am dispatching thousands and thousands of heavily armed soldiers, military personnel and law enforcement officers to stop the rioting, looting, vandalism, assaults and the wanton destruction of property.

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Re: A Long Hot Summer begins (a dumpster fire chat)

Post by BostonBeaneater »

My friend’s window view in NYC...
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Re: A Long Hot Summer begins (a dumpster fire chat)

Post by muppet hi fi »

Inder wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 8:34pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 8:01pm
Ya know, man - with your sweeping statement "The US Military might shoot it's own people in the streets tonight" (with no context or links or any other commentary), sounds like one of Trumps tweets. Cause fear with no back story. Dude, are you getting off on this shit?
???????

Like half an hour ago, the president said this:
I am mobilizing all available federal resources civilian and military to stop the rioting and looting to end the destruction and arson and to protect the rights of law abiding Americans, including your Second Amendment rights.

I am also taking swift and decisive action to protect our great capital, Washington, D.C. What happened in this city last night was a total disgrace. As we speak, I am dispatching thousands and thousands of heavily armed soldiers, military personnel and law enforcement officers to stop the rioting, looting, vandalism, assaults and the wanton destruction of property.
I hadn't heard or read this yet, Inder. Was mostly reading/watching local stuff. I'm sorry. Let get to Beaner to apologize to him. Out.
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Re: A Long Hot Summer begins (a dumpster fire chat)

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Re: A Long Hot Summer begins (a dumpster fire chat)

Post by Spiff »

muppet hi fi wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 8:01pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 7:53pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 7:35pm

Beanie - do you know anyone in the US Military - Guard, Reserves or active duty? Or even veterans? I know quite a few. I'm related to a couple. To a man/woman, they all despise Trump, and mostly (from what I've gleaned) are liberals/Democrats or left-leaning libertarians.
I do. Some were friends and others are family. I'd say 80% are in the cult and have no problem seeing the police and military brutalize American people in the streets.
Yeah? These peeps all fellow Massholes? :mrgreen:

Ya know, man - with your sweeping statement "The US Military might shoot it's own people in the streets tonight" (with no context or links or any other commentary), sounds like one of Trumps tweets. Cause fear with no back story. Dude, are you getting off on this shit?
You're misreading Beaner's posts.

He's just expressing his alarm about Trump's fascist big move to get the military into the fray.

It's ominous ... and it may lead to the regrettable situation wherein our military may be shooting American citizens. (Which Beaner is against, BTW.)

So, please cut him some slack and try to parse his words a little better.
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Re: A Long Hot Summer begins (a dumpster fire chat)

Post by muppet hi fi »

Spiff wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 8:43pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 8:01pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 7:53pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 7:35pm

Beanie - do you know anyone in the US Military - Guard, Reserves or active duty? Or even veterans? I know quite a few. I'm related to a couple. To a man/woman, they all despise Trump, and mostly (from what I've gleaned) are liberals/Democrats or left-leaning libertarians.
I do. Some were friends and others are family. I'd say 80% are in the cult and have no problem seeing the police and military brutalize American people in the streets.
Yeah? These peeps all fellow Massholes? :mrgreen:

Ya know, man - with your sweeping statement "The US Military might shoot it's own people in the streets tonight" (with no context or links or any other commentary), sounds like one of Trumps tweets. Cause fear with no back story. Dude, are you getting off on this shit?
You're misreading Beaner's posts.

He's just expressing his alarm about Trump's fascist big move to get the military into the fray.

It's ominous ... and it may lead to the regrettable situation wherein our military may be shooting American citizens. (Which Beaner is against, BTW.)

So, please cut him some slack and try to parse his words a little better.
Yes, Spiff. I fucked up with Beaner. I have apologized to him a couple posts up. I apologize to you too, man.
Strong shoes is what we got and when they're hot they're hot!
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Re: A Long Hot Summer begins (a dumpster fire chat)

Post by muppet hi fi »

BostonBeaneater wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 8:33pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 8:17pm

I'm living the "news" right here in central St. Paul, guy. And aside from seeing it firsthand (I don't drive so walk everywhere), I'm getting from regular broadcast TV stations here: WCCO, KSTP or Kare11 (not channel 9, which is Fox). And of course PBS (ch. 2), MPR, NPR, and of course CNN since they are ubiquitous. Mostly online media with links, since I don't own a TV.

I don't know what the fuck you're being pissy with me over? Is it because I think the cops and military are bootlicking goons? When I see cop cars run over protesters I think they're goons. When the president calls in the military to crush the protesters I get a little alarmed. I watched, in person, a peaceful protest of unarmed people with signs suddenly turn violent when cops in riot gear show up I think it's fishy. So, I'm sorry, what the fuck did I say to you that was so wrong. I am not making any of this up.
Beaner, I thought I had posted my apology to you, looks like I didn't. I am sorry. I wasn't trying to fuck with you ad hominen , I was - FUCKING UNIFORMED (lot of that going around, right?). Just got the latest national news (was mostly following local). And I am truly sorry for coming at you like I did . I was wrong, out of line, under-informed, and though I'm alone and frightened, that is no excuse for confronting a clearly decent guy such as you, especially online. A'm sorry, mate. Out.
Strong shoes is what we got and when they're hot they're hot!
- Marky Dread and his fabulous Screaming Blue Messiahs

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Re: A Long Hot Summer begins (a dumpster fire chat)

Post by BostonBeaneater »

muppet hi fi wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 8:53pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 8:33pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 8:17pm

I'm living the "news" right here in central St. Paul, guy. And aside from seeing it firsthand (I don't drive so walk everywhere), I'm getting from regular broadcast TV stations here: WCCO, KSTP or Kare11 (not channel 9, which is Fox). And of course PBS (ch. 2), MPR, NPR, and of course CNN since they are ubiquitous. Mostly online media with links, since I don't own a TV.

I don't know what the fuck you're being pissy with me over? Is it because I think the cops and military are bootlicking goons? When I see cop cars run over protesters I think they're goons. When the president calls in the military to crush the protesters I get a little alarmed. I watched, in person, a peaceful protest of unarmed people with signs suddenly turn violent when cops in riot gear show up I think it's fishy. So, I'm sorry, what the fuck did I say to you that was so wrong. I am not making any of this up.
Beaner, I thought I had posted my apology to you, looks like I didn't. I am sorry. I wasn't trying to fuck with you ad hominen , I was - FUCKING UNIFORMED (lot of that going around, right?). Just got the latest national news (was mostly following local). And I am truly sorry for coming at you like I did . I was wrong, out of line, under-informed, and though I'm alone and frightened, that is no excuse for confronting a clearly decent guy such as you, especially online. A'm sorry, mate. Out.
Don't worry about it. I was a little blindsided.
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Re: A Long Hot Summer begins (a dumpster fire chat)

Post by Flex »

One piece of advice (one I'm trying to make myself take) is that, with shit moving really fast and a lot of people accessing different info on everything going on, it may be helpful to be explicit in what we may or may not be reacting to (and, conversely, if something reads a bit off to ask for clarification). Everyone's operating in good faith here, we're family really, and this is obviously emotionally charged for everyone, so while it's a good place to vent/react and also to inform others and share ideas about what's going on, I for one am going to try to take a little more care than I'll typically bring to a random post just to minimize potential confusion.

Not calling anyone out here, as I said this is something I want to work on for myself and thought it might be a thought worth sharing.
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Re: A Long Hot Summer begins (a dumpster fire chat)

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These are the actors we should be looking out for.

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Re: A Long Hot Summer begins (a dumpster fire chat)

Post by Spiff »

101Walterton wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 4:09pm
Spiff wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 10:29am
muppet hi fi wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 2:02am
Minnesota Attorney General Kieth Ellison will take over the criminal investigation. Damn good call from Gov. Walz. I would expect Chauvin to be up-charged and the other three cops to be formally charged with something.
Yes, this is a great move, and one demanded by George Floyd's family and the demonstrators.

I also hope this means that the other three will be charged, too. I had only very slim hopes that Freeman would also charge them, but it's not a sure thing that Ellison will, although the odds are a little better.

I'm sure the local GOP assholes will find something horrifying to say about this, whatever Ellison does.

I wonder if the tweet he sent out (see page 1 of this thread) will come back to haunt him.

When Ellison briefly spoke last night, he made a point to say that under Minnesota law, it's really tough to convict an officer.


But fuck, if he's not sent to prison, the blood that will spill in the streets here and elsewhere will be like nothing that's ever been seen before in this country.
I’ve read this elsewhere but don’t understand.
Does this mean the ‘assault’ laws in Minnesota don’t apply to every individual?
I. E . Some people (cops) are outside of the law.
Or are their statutory defences for Police.
Or tough to convict because of the jury system. I’d have thought the people who would make up the jury are already speaking.
101, it's because cops are given a greater, a much greater, benefit of the doubt.

It means they can lawfully kill you if they merely perceive you as a treat, even if you weren't a threat and when they judged you as a (mistaken) threat, they weren't doing so by a "reasonable" standard, which I -- a non-cop -- would be judged by.

The reasoning is that cops have to make split-second decisions and are generally assumed to be trying to do the right thing.

That's why it's tough to send them to jail.

Here's a pretty good primer: https://www.minnpost.com/metro/2020/06/ ... ed-deaths/

(BTW, I've commented under that article using my IRL name, Tim Walker.)
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Re: A Long Hot Summer begins (a dumpster fire chat)

Post by BostonBeaneater »

Spiff wrote:
01 Jun 2020, 9:25pm

...it's because cops are given a greater, a much greater, benefit of the doubt.

It means they can lawfully kill you if they merely perceive you as a treat, even if you weren't a threat and when they judged you as a (mistaken) threat, they weren't doing so by a "reasonable" standard, which I -- a non-cop -- would be judged by.

The reasoning is that cops have to make split-second decisions and are generally assumed to be trying to do the right thing.

That's why it's tough to send them to jail.

I'll add that policing in the States have become increasingly militant in my lifetime. After 9/11 there was so much public money pumped into 'security' and police forces have been equipped with military equipment, trained in military tactics, and staffed by our mentally damaged veterans. It's a shitty situation.
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