Re: A Long Hot Summer begins (a dumpster fire chat)
Posted: 15 Jun 2020, 8:00pm
I'd strut like Travolta down that street.
Yeah certainly long overdue dumping that asshole but he's dead and there are more pressing matters.101Walterton wrote: ↑15 Jun 2020, 8:05pmSo the town of Cromwell want to chsnge their name because of Oliver Cromwell actions in Ireland / slavery etc..
All valid points but all this is diluting and moving away from the Reason for the BLM protest.
Real change where it is needed now will unfortunately get lost lost through the cracks again.
I’d like to gallivant up Spiff Promenade.
The Italian Marxist theorist Antonio Gramsci, while jailed by Mussolini in the 20s, wrote about why the predicted worker's revolution never happened. He argued that, in part, it was that the intellectual ground hadn't been properly achieved yet. One can successfully launch a military seizure of power, toppling the govt, but if the people in whose name its for aren't intellectually on board, it will ultimately fail. So a successful revolution takes years of work educating people as to why the conventional stance is not in their interests, while the counter is. Arguably, this is why civil rights stalled in the 1960s. If white people had by the 60s come around to the sense of desegregation in schools and the vote and all that, but weren't on board regarding de facto segregation in residence and employment, so when the riots exploded white liberals fled to Nixon. Ironically, the right has done a much better job at practicing Gramsci's argument than the left, convincing so many of the working class that their interests align with the wealthy.revbob wrote: ↑15 Jun 2020, 8:37pmYeah certainly long overdue dumping that asshole but he's dead and there are more pressing matters.101Walterton wrote: ↑15 Jun 2020, 8:05pmSo the town of Cromwell want to chsnge their name because of Oliver Cromwell actions in Ireland / slavery etc..
All valid points but all this is diluting and moving away from the Reason for the BLM protest.
Real change where it is needed now will unfortunately get lost lost through the cracks again.
Was at a demonstration the other day and some speakers were going beyond the basic premise which was anti-racist and BLM. Not that I didn't agree but we need to build a broader coalition. Some people are firmly entrenched in the racist camp and that can usually only be mitigated thru their demise. There are in the meantime those who for whatever reason are undecided, need to be educated and those people need to basically have their mind made up for them. They are scared and timid and will naturally retreat to their own safety if that seems the safe choice for them. Its one thing for the 65 yo retiree to accept that racism is a problem that needs to be addressed and a whole other ball game for them to say we need to overthrow capitalism. They arent gonna see the link between the two. Let's not scare them off. I guess I sound a bit like a stickie arguing for stages but it is almost always the white people who want to attach various other (worthwhile) causes to things like this that provides the other side an opportunity to invalidate the overall anti racist cause
As always you present things in perhaps a more coherent and scholarly way than I.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020, 6:21amThe Italian Marxist theorist Antonio Gramsci, while jailed by Mussolini in the 20s, wrote about why the predicted worker's revolution never happened. He argued that, in part, it was that the intellectual ground hadn't been properly achieved yet. One can successfully launch a military seizure of power, toppling the govt, but if the people in whose name its for aren't intellectually on board, it will ultimately fail. So a successful revolution takes years of work educating people as to why the conventional stance is not in their interests, while the counter is. Arguably, this is why civil rights stalled in the 1960s. If white people had by the 60s come around to the sense of desegregation in schools and the vote and all that, but weren't on board regarding de facto segregation in residence and employment, so when the riots exploded white liberals fled to Nixon. Ironically, the right has done a much better job at practicing Gramsci's argument than the left, convincing so many of the working class that their interests align with the wealthy.revbob wrote: ↑15 Jun 2020, 8:37pmYeah certainly long overdue dumping that asshole but he's dead and there are more pressing matters.101Walterton wrote: ↑15 Jun 2020, 8:05pmSo the town of Cromwell want to chsnge their name because of Oliver Cromwell actions in Ireland / slavery etc..
All valid points but all this is diluting and moving away from the Reason for the BLM protest.
Real change where it is needed now will unfortunately get lost lost through the cracks again.
Was at a demonstration the other day and some speakers were going beyond the basic premise which was anti-racist and BLM. Not that I didn't agree but we need to build a broader coalition. Some people are firmly entrenched in the racist camp and that can usually only be mitigated thru their demise. There are in the meantime those who for whatever reason are undecided, need to be educated and those people need to basically have their mind made up for them. They are scared and timid and will naturally retreat to their own safety if that seems the safe choice for them. Its one thing for the 65 yo retiree to accept that racism is a problem that needs to be addressed and a whole other ball game for them to say we need to overthrow capitalism. They arent gonna see the link between the two. Let's not scare them off. I guess I sound a bit like a stickie arguing for stages but it is almost always the white people who want to attach various other (worthwhile) causes to things like this that provides the other side an opportunity to invalidate the overall anti racist cause
The colloquial term is NERD!
That period isn't anywhere close to my speciality, but I do know that the revolution was "sold" as a conservative action, responding to the radical violation of traditional rights by the Crown. It was supposed to be a restoration, not a radical transformation. The experience of war and propaganda altered that, but in terms of getting people on board, it was the mother country that was considered radical.Ive heard it argued by some that the "American Revolution " didnt have a majority of the citizens on its side. But it isnt the best model for systematic change.
I kinda like the little touch with the flaccid flag. Better if it were the stars and bars, but you can't have everything.BostonBeaneater wrote: ↑27 Jun 2020, 5:46pmSo 'they' had a pro-police rally at the State House in Boston today. It was a small crowd with many of them sport nazi/white nationalist t shirts and tattoos. Then it rained. Then they got lost on Beacon Hill.
Pretty close to touching the ground too.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑27 Jun 2020, 6:41pmI kinda like the little touch with the flaccid flag. Better if it were the stars and bars, but you can't have everything.BostonBeaneater wrote: ↑27 Jun 2020, 5:46pmSo 'they' had a pro-police rally at the State House in Boston today. It was a small crowd with many of them sport nazi/white nationalist t shirts and tattoos. Then it rained. Then they got lost on Beacon Hill.