If you really wanna go - alive or dead my friend

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Howard Beale
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Re: If you really wanna go - alive or dead my friend

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Low Down Low wrote:I find the whole thing very complex and difficult to understand. There's also the influence of Ihor Kolomoyskyi, one of Ukraine's chief oligarchs, who is on the FBI' s blacklist, but has been one of Zelenskys main financial backers while also funding the Azov, among other far right military battalions. It's all very murky and strange. And while it's easy to get why the ultra nationalist Ukrainian far right is standing up to Putin, i can't help wondering if all the far right groups pouring in from neighbouring countries (well, according to reports, anyway) understand that they are, nominally at least, fighting for a cause that is pro nato, pro EU integration, which doesn't seem a very neo nazi angle to be aligning yourself with. Maybe these folk are stuck in a cold war time warp and still imagine they are fighting the Russian red menace? I don't know really, while Putin is unquestionably the villain of the peace here, there's still a lot in the background I have a weak grasp of.
I think the Karas clip I posted earlier may shed some light on this...
Also on the neo-Nazi front: here's a clip of Yevhen Karas, the leader of another neo-Nazi militia, C14, speaking on how his and the other militias were "given so much weaponry" to "perform the tasks set by the West."

He mentions that the "European family" (by which I'd assume he at least partially means the EU) has "already collapsed" and that "this is about new political alliances on the global level." He also mentions having a "huge, ambitious task" and alludes to Russia falling apart "into five different Russias." Karas also enthusiastically referred to the current sitatution as a "holy war," so I'd say that he and the various neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine just see a lot of this as a means to an end.

It's also important to remember that there's a racial component to all this as well. To most in the West the situation in Donbass just looks like white people (Ukrainian nationalists) fighting with other white people (ethnically Russian Ukrainian citizens), but these groups don't see it that way—the Azov Battalion (and I'd assume most of these other militias) view Russians as an non-white, Asiatic peoples, and thus racially inferior.

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Re: If you really wanna go - alive or dead my friend

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Well, the probably inevitable happened. Friend's cousin was sent to the front (family wasn't told where precisely he'd be deployed). Being back home he was able to convince his daughter to take his grandmother (so daughter's great-grandmother) to Poland, and it sounds like their safely there now. He was able to see them off before he left to fight. Rest of family still staying. Friend says no one in the family is expecting him to live. Friend shared some last photos the family all took together. Just extremely sad.
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Re: If you really wanna go - alive or dead my friend

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Flex wrote:
13 Mar 2022, 2:06pm
Well, the probably inevitable happened. Friend's cousin was sent to the front (family wasn't told where precisely he'd be deployed). Being back home he was able to convince his daughter to take his grandmother (so daughter's great-grandmother) to Poland, and it sounds like their safely there now. He was able to see them off before he left to fight. Rest of family still staying. Friend says no one in the family is expecting him to live. Friend shared some last photos the family all took together. Just extremely sad.
Very sad indeed, I continue to include the people of Ukraine in my daily prayers & meditations. Hoping that someone, somehow is able to stop this before it turns in to a world war. :cry:
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Re: If you really wanna go - alive or dead my friend

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Flex wrote:
13 Mar 2022, 2:06pm
Well, the probably inevitable happened. Friend's cousin was sent to the front (family wasn't told where precisely he'd be deployed). Being back home he was able to convince his daughter to take his grandmother (so daughter's great-grandmother) to Poland, and it sounds like their safely there now. He was able to see them off before he left to fight. Rest of family still staying. Friend says no one in the family is expecting him to live. Friend shared some last photos the family all took together. Just extremely sad.
:cry: :cry:

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Re: If you really wanna go - alive or dead my friend

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Flex wrote:
13 Mar 2022, 2:06pm
Well, the probably inevitable happened. Friend's cousin was sent to the front (family wasn't told where precisely he'd be deployed). Being back home he was able to convince his daughter to take his grandmother (so daughter's great-grandmother) to Poland, and it sounds like their safely there now. He was able to see them off before he left to fight. Rest of family still staying. Friend says no one in the family is expecting him to live. Friend shared some last photos the family all took together. Just extremely sad.
Simply awful mate. Very saddened to hear this.
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Howard Beale
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Re: If you really wanna go - alive or dead my friend

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Flex wrote:Well, the probably inevitable happened. Friend's cousin was sent to the front (family wasn't told where precisely he'd be deployed). Being back home he was able to convince his daughter to take his grandmother (so daughter's great-grandmother) to Poland, and it sounds like their safely there now. He was able to see them off before he left to fight. Rest of family still staying. Friend says no one in the family is expecting him to live. Friend shared some last photos the family all took together. Just extremely sad.
This is awful news. This war needs to end as soon as possible.

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Re: If you really wanna go - alive or dead my friend

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Flex wrote:
13 Mar 2022, 2:06pm
Well, the probably inevitable happened. Friend's cousin was sent to the front (family wasn't told where precisely he'd be deployed). Being back home he was able to convince his daughter to take his grandmother (so daughter's great-grandmother) to Poland, and it sounds like their safely there now. He was able to see them off before he left to fight. Rest of family still staying. Friend says no one in the family is expecting him to live. Friend shared some last photos the family all took together. Just extremely sad.
So damn sad.
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Re: If you really wanna go - alive or dead my friend

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Been following this thread with interest some great thought provoking posts and links.
Watched the presentation below earlier. It was recorded in 2015 and it's very prescient. Offers a clear analysis of what's happening now.

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Re: If you really wanna go - alive or dead my friend

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Re: If you really wanna go - alive or dead my friend

Post by Howard Beale »

FarawayTowns wrote:
14 Mar 2022, 6:14pm
Been following this thread with interest some great thought provoking posts and links.
Watched the presentation below earlier. It was recorded in 2015 and it's very prescient. Offers a clear analysis of what's happening now.
It's been an encouraging sign to see the Mearsheimer video rack up more than 21 million views in recent weeks—suggests to me that more and more people are catching on that the dominant narrative is total bullshit.



Here is is an interesting article about how the sanctions on Russia will likely have the opposite of their intended effect:
By seeking an economic divorce from Russia, US President Joe Biden and his European allies ignored the time-tested saying, “Keep your friends close but your enemies closer.” In doing so, they have enabled the complete economic decoupling of Russia from the West. The resulting Russian economic union with China will transform global geopolitical reality, to the detriment of those who sought these sanctions in the first place.

...

Left to his own devices, Putin would never have been able to divorce Russia from the West, and thus insulate Russian society — and, by extension, his ability to govern — from Western sanctions. Here, the US and Europe are doing Putin a huge favor, with current sweeping sanctions giving him the ability to separate Russia from its economic association with the West without the politically fatal consequences of being seen to do this on his own volition.
http://www.energyintel.com/0000017f-797 ... fdd6cf0000



Also, Oliver Stone has a documentary on Ukraine from 2016 that's now available for free online. Haven't seen it yet, but it's probably at least worth a watch.

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Re: If you really wanna go - alive or dead my friend

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https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/17/us/p ... apons.html

Putting sanctions on China would be an unhinged decision. They can't possibly mean to follow through on it.
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Re: If you really wanna go - alive or dead my friend

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eumaas wrote:
18 Mar 2022, 9:08am
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/17/us/p ... apons.html

Putting sanctions on China would be an unhinged decision. They can't possibly mean to follow through on it.
I'd be extremely surprised as Biden has handled this in a rather low-key manner thus far, seemingly to avoid giving Russia an easy anti-American counter-argument. It's all been about gathering allies to isolate Russia in the world, to make it a pariah state, and a move like that would seem to push China and Russia together, not apart.
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Re: If you really wanna go - alive or dead my friend

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tepista wrote:
16 Mar 2022, 10:13pm
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The overtime rate will blow him away.
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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Re: If you really wanna go - alive or dead my friend

Post by eumaas »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
18 Mar 2022, 10:01am
eumaas wrote:
18 Mar 2022, 9:08am
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/17/us/p ... apons.html

Putting sanctions on China would be an unhinged decision. They can't possibly mean to follow through on it.
I'd be extremely surprised as Biden has handled this in a rather low-key manner thus far, seemingly to avoid giving Russia an easy anti-American counter-argument. It's all been about gathering allies to isolate Russia in the world, to make it a pariah state, and a move like that would seem to push China and Russia together, not apart.
China's been pretty neutral and I think their media has started covering civilian casualties in Ukraine. Going through China would be the most sensible route for diplomatic pressure on Russia (I said this to a friend of mine the day the war started). The public threat has to just be for jingoistic ego reasons, right? I've not been impressed by the Biden admin but they can't be nuts enough to seriously consider sanctions. I do think the war fever is a bit out of control from the Biden admin perspective given how the press secretary is constantly being uh pressed on the no fly zone issue.
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Re: If you really wanna go - alive or dead my friend

Post by Dr. Medulla »

eumaas wrote:
18 Mar 2022, 10:31am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
18 Mar 2022, 10:01am
eumaas wrote:
18 Mar 2022, 9:08am
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/17/us/p ... apons.html

Putting sanctions on China would be an unhinged decision. They can't possibly mean to follow through on it.
I'd be extremely surprised as Biden has handled this in a rather low-key manner thus far, seemingly to avoid giving Russia an easy anti-American counter-argument. It's all been about gathering allies to isolate Russia in the world, to make it a pariah state, and a move like that would seem to push China and Russia together, not apart.
China's been pretty neutral and I think their media has started covering civilian casualties in Ukraine. Going through China would be the most sensible route for diplomatic pressure on Russia (I said this to a friend of mine the day the war started). The public threat has to just be for jingoistic ego reasons, right? I've not been impressed by the Biden admin but they can't be nuts enough to seriously consider sanctions. I do think the war fever is a bit out of control from the Biden admin perspective given how the press secretary is constantly being uh pressed on the no fly zone issue.
One problem with China is that it has its own interests in the West fracturing further, so it has every reason to be cagey and let things play out before picking a side. But it makes no sense to me for the US to threaten China to pick a side.
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