It's Always Darkest Before It Goes Pitch Black: Trump's New America

[Flex]

I'm sick of the election threads. Let's start a new one for any discussion of where we go from here.

A few interesting tidbits from exit polling data (which will be further refined as vote totals are finalized):

Harris actually gained ground from Biden with men without college degrees (and men with college degrees too, actually). Lost ground with women, Latinos, basically all minorities, and young people.

That's not to say majorities of those groups voted for trump (although a majority of white women, Latino men, and white men all did) but she lost enough of the core Dem constituencies without making commensurate gains with white men and women that they didn't offset.

I dont think where she lost and where she made up fits cleanly into a single answer of what would have stopped trump (I mean, inflation killed the Dems but it's not obvious to me it's because people were yearning for socialism instead. It's not even obvious to me from Harris's gains with men without college degrees that the Dems were being particularly punished by working class people. The gap in pay increase to inflation has been highest in middle and upper middle income families for the last few years. Will be interesting to see the economic breakdowns when more data becomes available).

A majority of voters in this country was offered a strongman fascist and said "yes please." Beyond that, its all guesswork and gut feel right now. Horrible gut feel.

I'm glad i live in a blue state that reelected all of its Dems. We have our crazy people, but being here should help shield us from some of the worst to come. Sorry for everyone else, tho.

[JennyB]

One of the interesting pieces of exit poll data I saw is that an even higher percentage of Jewish Americans voted for Harris (78%) than voted for Biden in 2020. So all of the hand-wringing thinking we would support Trump because of Israel was wrong.

[Flex]

One of the interesting pieces of exit poll data I saw is that an even higher percentage of Jewish Americans voted for Harris (78%) than voted for Biden in 2020. So all of the hand-wringing thinking we would support Trump because of Israel was wrong.

That's edifying to hear.

[matedog]

One of the interesting pieces of exit poll data I saw is that an even higher percentage of Jewish Americans voted for Harris (78%) than voted for Biden in 2020. So all of the hand-wringing thinking we would support Trump because of Israel was wrong.

That's interesting, especially given the narrative.

I remember the narrative in 2020 was that college educated suburbanites won the election for Biden. Based on the totals thus far, Trump only lost a small percentage of R votes, but Harris lost like 15m D voters compared to 2020. It'll be interesting to see where the big drop offs were.

[Dr. Medulla]

One of the interesting pieces of exit poll data I saw is that an even higher percentage of Jewish Americans voted for Harris (78%) than voted for Biden in 2020. So all of the hand-wringing thinking we would support Trump because of Israel was wrong.

Awful as it is to contemplate, perhaps there was still enough historical resonance to hear talk about deporting millions of people and describing them as vermin and corrupting the blood. Like, we’ve heard that shit before even if he’s not talking about Jews.

[Flex]

Trump made huge gains with working class and lower middle (middle middle?) income voters:


Dems definitely have a problem reaching out to lower income folks. I don't think that's a huge surprise to anyone critical of the party's adherence to neoliberalism. It'll be interesting to see how the party responds. If history is any guide, it will be... not great, unfortunately.

[Dr. Medulla]

Trump made huge gains with working class and lower middle (middle middle?) income voters:


Dems definitely have a problem reaching out to lower income folks. I don't think that's a huge surprise to anyone critical of the party's adherence to neoliberalism. It'll be interesting to see how the party responds. If history is any guide, it will be... not great, unfortunately.

The question is whether those people at the bottom have hope or whether this is a continuation of a fuck-you to neoliberalism.

[Flex]

The question is whether those people at the bottom have hope or whether this is a continuation of a fuck-you to neoliberalism.

I don't even know if it's hope, per se. One thing that eumaas has lamented to me is that Americans really have no sense of solidarity. I didn't believe it when he said it, but now I do. I think that makes people, especially those in precarity, particularly vulnerable to a "fuck everyone else, make sure you get yours" type message. Especially when the alternative is at least perceived as being more of the same.

[Kory]

The question is whether those people at the bottom have hope or whether this is a continuation of a fuck-you to neoliberalism.

I don't even know if it's hope, per se. One thing that eumaas has lamented to me is that Americans really have no sense of solidarity. I didn't believe it when he said it, but now I do. I think that makes people, especially those in precarity, particularly vulnerable to a "fuck everyone else, make sure you get yours" type message. Especially when the alternative is at least perceived as being more of the same.

I've heard a lot of talk about how there was a bit of solidarity after 9/11. I'm not sure how true that is; I was only 18 and a couple days away from starting college, and the internet was young enough that I didn't have much sense of national feeling. In the years since, I've thought about it a fair amount, and the possible reasons for it. Is the USA too big? I dunno. Obviously capitalism is a big part of it. I'm just rambling here, clearly.

[WestwayKid]

The question is whether those people at the bottom have hope or whether this is a continuation of a fuck-you to neoliberalism.

I don't even know if it's hope, per se. One thing that eumaas has lamented to me is that Americans really have no sense of solidarity. I didn't believe it when he said it, but now I do. I think that makes people, especially those in precarity, particularly vulnerable to a "fuck everyone else, make sure you get yours" type message. Especially when the alternative is at least perceived as being more of the same.

I've heard a lot of talk about how there was a bit of solidarity after 9/11. I'm not sure how true that is; I was only 18 and a couple days away from starting college, and the internet was young enough that I didn't have much sense of national feeling. In the years since, I've thought about it a fair amount, and the possible reasons for it. Is the USA too big? I dunno. Obviously capitalism is a big part of it. I'm just rambling here, clearly.

I asked that question yesterday. It might be, but I also think it's bigger than that. I don't know if we've ever been all that unified. We'll pull together during a crisis, but otherwise I feel like there is a lot of sectionalism and not just geography based, but economic and education and stuff like that.

[Mimi]

I fell for the "oh he's going to get arrested for this, they're going to take him out of the WH in handcuffs, he's going to jail for this and that crime" for the first round and I see it happening already on social media. If that's what makes you feel better in order to cope with the chaos, then fine. For me, I took a good long look at those four years on social media and the news cycles and I've found most of it was untrue or if it was true nothing was done about it or maybe it was only wishful thinking for others, I don't know. But I'm not falling for it this time. I'm protecting my mental health this time around. My philosophy is simple: I'll believe it when I see it.

I have a lot of feelings today.

[Flex]

I fell for the "oh he's going to get arrested for this, they're going to take him out of the WH in handcuffs, he's going to jail for this and that crime" for the first round and I see it happening already on social media. If that's what makes you feel better in order to cope with the chaos, then fine. For me, I took a good long look at those four years on social media and the news cycles and I've found most of it was untrue or if it was true nothing was done about it or maybe it was only wishful thinking for others, I don't know. But I'm not falling for it this time. I'm protecting my mental health this time around. My philosophy is simple: I'll believe it when I see it.

I have a lot of feelings today.

I don't know who is saying stuff like that but they have it backwards: trump will be arresting his political enemies from the comfort of the white house. He's untouchable for the rest of his life now. The supreme Court will almost certainly back him to run another term if he wants (and lives that long). Any idea he'd face a consequence for anything is over.

[Mimi]

I fell for the "oh he's going to get arrested for this, they're going to take him out of the WH in handcuffs, he's going to jail for this and that crime" for the first round and I see it happening already on social media. If that's what makes you feel better in order to cope with the chaos, then fine. For me, I took a good long look at those four years on social media and the news cycles and I've found most of it was untrue or if it was true nothing was done about it or maybe it was only wishful thinking for others, I don't know. But I'm not falling for it this time. I'm protecting my mental health this time around. My philosophy is simple: I'll believe it when I see it.

I have a lot of feelings today.

I don't know who is saying stuff like that but they have it backwards: trump will be arresting his political enemies from the comfort of the white house. He's untouchable for the rest of his life now. The supreme Court will almost certainly back him to run another term if he wants (and lives that long). Any idea he'd face a consequence for anything is over.

ETA (to fix my confusion): No, I meant people said that about Trump the first time around and I've seen on social media folks already talking about how this and this agency is going to come after him. It's a coping strategy, I'm sure, but nothing will happen now so... And I'm not going to fall for it at all this time.

[Flex]

The question is whether those people at the bottom have hope or whether this is a continuation of a fuck-you to neoliberalism.

I don't even know if it's hope, per se. One thing that eumaas has lamented to me is that Americans really have no sense of solidarity. I didn't believe it when he said it, but now I do. I think that makes people, especially those in precarity, particularly vulnerable to a "fuck everyone else, make sure you get yours" type message. Especially when the alternative is at least perceived as being more of the same.

I've heard a lot of talk about how there was a bit of solidarity after 9/11. I'm not sure how true that is; I was only 18 and a couple days away from starting college, and the internet was young enough that I didn't have much sense of national feeling. In the years since, I've thought about it a fair amount, and the possible reasons for it. Is the USA too big? I dunno. Obviously capitalism is a big part of it. I'm just rambling here, clearly.

Well, we had a sort of patriotic sense of solidarity as long as you were a white Christian who supported the wars. We sometimes embrace a solidarity of jingoism resting on in and out groups.

Not to put words in his mouth, but I think eumaas more has in mind solidarity with and among those out groups. We don't have it.

[Kory]

The question is whether those people at the bottom have hope or whether this is a continuation of a fuck-you to neoliberalism.

I don't even know if it's hope, per se. One thing that eumaas has lamented to me is that Americans really have no sense of solidarity. I didn't believe it when he said it, but now I do. I think that makes people, especially those in precarity, particularly vulnerable to a "fuck everyone else, make sure you get yours" type message. Especially when the alternative is at least perceived as being more of the same.

I've heard a lot of talk about how there was a bit of solidarity after 9/11. I'm not sure how true that is; I was only 18 and a couple days away from starting college, and the internet was young enough that I didn't have much sense of national feeling. In the years since, I've thought about it a fair amount, and the possible reasons for it. Is the USA too big? I dunno. Obviously capitalism is a big part of it. I'm just rambling here, clearly.

Well, we had a sort of patriotic sense of solidarity as long as you were a white Christian who supported the wars. We sometimes embrace a solidarity of jingoism resting on in and out groups.

Not to put words in his mouth, but I think eumaas more has in mind solidarity with and among those out groups. We don't have it.

I just meant directly afterward, not in the following months. But yeah, if I'm reading you correctly, there's too much in-fighting among the people whose resistance would obviously be stronger by coming together.