Thanks for the explanation! So I would imagine a court challenge to any ban could come from a Jewish (or Muslim) woman on those grounds.JennyB wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 5:18pmSure. And this is the tactic we use when relaying testimony in the Missouri legislature (not that they care) - we approach it from a faith based perspective and let NARAL and PP take their approaches.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 4:00pmI briefly saw something about Jewish leaders saying any bans would be contrary to Judaism, and so discriminatory toward their faith. Can you speak to that?JennyB wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 3:44pmIt's been a busy few days - rally the other night, starting a partnership with the MO Abortion Fund (they only provide funding for the procedure, we are going to provide transportation into Illinois and help with funding for that), another rally on the 14th, a panel on the Jewish response on the 25th...and all while dealing with annoying coalition partners. I'm too old for this shit.
Basic synopsis - in Judaism, the health (including mental health) of the mother always takes priority over the fetus, so abortion is not only allowed, but even required in some cases. Even the Orthodox believe this. So anti-abortion laws, which are always drafted from the Christian perspective of life beginning at conception, violate the constitution's Establishment Clause, which forbids imposing one religious belief over all others. If I'm not mistaken, Islam's view is very similar to Judaism's. Not to mention Pagan religions.
But, again, they usually don't care. Even when we bring a strapping young white, male rabbi to testify on our behalf.
No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.
Fortunately, case law around this will end up at the supreme court which is now stacked with unaccountable clerics - pardon me, I mean judges - who are fully committed to all forms of religious liberty, as they claim.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.
Maybe! We'll see. I forgot to add that Judaism also doesn't believe that life begins at conception, but when a child takes its first breath.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 5:46pmThanks for the explanation! So I would imagine a court challenge to any ban could come from a Jewish (or Muslim) woman on those grounds.JennyB wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 5:18pmSure. And this is the tactic we use when relaying testimony in the Missouri legislature (not that they care) - we approach it from a faith based perspective and let NARAL and PP take their approaches.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 4:00pmI briefly saw something about Jewish leaders saying any bans would be contrary to Judaism, and so discriminatory toward their faith. Can you speak to that?JennyB wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 3:44pmIt's been a busy few days - rally the other night, starting a partnership with the MO Abortion Fund (they only provide funding for the procedure, we are going to provide transportation into Illinois and help with funding for that), another rally on the 14th, a panel on the Jewish response on the 25th...and all while dealing with annoying coalition partners. I'm too old for this shit.
Basic synopsis - in Judaism, the health (including mental health) of the mother always takes priority over the fetus, so abortion is not only allowed, but even required in some cases. Even the Orthodox believe this. So anti-abortion laws, which are always drafted from the Christian perspective of life beginning at conception, violate the constitution's Establishment Clause, which forbids imposing one religious belief over all others. If I'm not mistaken, Islam's view is very similar to Judaism's. Not to mention Pagan religions.
But, again, they usually don't care. Even when we bring a strapping young white, male rabbi to testify on our behalf.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.
Surely you can't be speaking of the Handmaid Justice!
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.
Interestingly, that's the moment the Christian right loses interest in the child's well-being. The kid is officially a parasite at that moment.JennyB wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 6:30pmMaybe! We'll see. I forgot to add that Judaism also doesn't believe that life begins at conception, but when a child takes its first breath.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 5:46pmThanks for the explanation! So I would imagine a court challenge to any ban could come from a Jewish (or Muslim) woman on those grounds.JennyB wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 5:18pmSure. And this is the tactic we use when relaying testimony in the Missouri legislature (not that they care) - we approach it from a faith based perspective and let NARAL and PP take their approaches.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 4:00pmI briefly saw something about Jewish leaders saying any bans would be contrary to Judaism, and so discriminatory toward their faith. Can you speak to that?JennyB wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 3:44pmIt's been a busy few days - rally the other night, starting a partnership with the MO Abortion Fund (they only provide funding for the procedure, we are going to provide transportation into Illinois and help with funding for that), another rally on the 14th, a panel on the Jewish response on the 25th...and all while dealing with annoying coalition partners. I'm too old for this shit.
Basic synopsis - in Judaism, the health (including mental health) of the mother always takes priority over the fetus, so abortion is not only allowed, but even required in some cases. Even the Orthodox believe this. So anti-abortion laws, which are always drafted from the Christian perspective of life beginning at conception, violate the constitution's Establishment Clause, which forbids imposing one religious belief over all others. If I'm not mistaken, Islam's view is very similar to Judaism's. Not to mention Pagan religions.
But, again, they usually don't care. Even when we bring a strapping young white, male rabbi to testify on our behalf.
I don't think it's Judaism—I'm thinking it's an Eastern faith or culture—that treats the first birthday as the day you're born. That is, you don't have to somehow earn a year on the planet to be considered one. There's something kind of hopeful in that perspective.
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.
Agree on both counts. The same people in MO who are trying to pass bills that would prohibit people from seeking abortions in other states are the same people who fought tooth and nail to prevent Medicaid expansion (which was approved by MO voters) from being implemented.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 6:50pmInterestingly, that's the moment the Christian right loses interest in the child's well-being. The kid is officially a parasite at that moment.JennyB wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 6:30pmMaybe! We'll see. I forgot to add that Judaism also doesn't believe that life begins at conception, but when a child takes its first breath.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 5:46pmThanks for the explanation! So I would imagine a court challenge to any ban could come from a Jewish (or Muslim) woman on those grounds.JennyB wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 5:18pmSure. And this is the tactic we use when relaying testimony in the Missouri legislature (not that they care) - we approach it from a faith based perspective and let NARAL and PP take their approaches.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 4:00pm
I briefly saw something about Jewish leaders saying any bans would be contrary to Judaism, and so discriminatory toward their faith. Can you speak to that?
Basic synopsis - in Judaism, the health (including mental health) of the mother always takes priority over the fetus, so abortion is not only allowed, but even required in some cases. Even the Orthodox believe this. So anti-abortion laws, which are always drafted from the Christian perspective of life beginning at conception, violate the constitution's Establishment Clause, which forbids imposing one religious belief over all others. If I'm not mistaken, Islam's view is very similar to Judaism's. Not to mention Pagan religions.
But, again, they usually don't care. Even when we bring a strapping young white, male rabbi to testify on our behalf.
I don't think it's Judaism—I'm thinking it's an Eastern faith or culture—that treats the first birthday as the day you're born. That is, you don't have to somehow earn a year on the planet to be considered one. There's something kind of hopeful in that perspective.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.
It's really hard not to see that the central, linking idea behind all this is that you're not part of the elect—white, male, and wealthy, or closely adjacent to that group—your time on this planet is meant to be one of suffering. Anything that eases that must be opposed. It's that terrible leap from understanding that some suffering is inevitable to thinking that suffering should be expanded because it's proper.JennyB wrote: ↑06 May 2022, 11:03amAgree on both counts. The same people in MO who are trying to pass bills that would prohibit people from seeking abortions in other states are the same people who fought tooth and nail to prevent Medicaid expansion (which was approved by MO voters) from being implemented.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 6:50pmInterestingly, that's the moment the Christian right loses interest in the child's well-being. The kid is officially a parasite at that moment.JennyB wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 6:30pmMaybe! We'll see. I forgot to add that Judaism also doesn't believe that life begins at conception, but when a child takes its first breath.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 5:46pmThanks for the explanation! So I would imagine a court challenge to any ban could come from a Jewish (or Muslim) woman on those grounds.JennyB wrote: ↑05 May 2022, 5:18pm
Sure. And this is the tactic we use when relaying testimony in the Missouri legislature (not that they care) - we approach it from a faith based perspective and let NARAL and PP take their approaches.
Basic synopsis - in Judaism, the health (including mental health) of the mother always takes priority over the fetus, so abortion is not only allowed, but even required in some cases. Even the Orthodox believe this. So anti-abortion laws, which are always drafted from the Christian perspective of life beginning at conception, violate the constitution's Establishment Clause, which forbids imposing one religious belief over all others. If I'm not mistaken, Islam's view is very similar to Judaism's. Not to mention Pagan religions.
But, again, they usually don't care. Even when we bring a strapping young white, male rabbi to testify on our behalf.
I don't think it's Judaism—I'm thinking it's an Eastern faith or culture—that treats the first birthday as the day you're born. That is, you don't have to somehow earn a year on the planet to be considered one. There's something kind of hopeful in that perspective.
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/06/opin ... e-war.html
I've kinda sorta mulled about this comparison, that a US where some states allow abortion and others don't, and fights about the legality of traveling from one to the other, echo the fight over slavery and slaves escaping to free states, particularly in the 1850s.Experts don’t know how these kinds of interstate battles are going to play out because there’s so little precedent for them. If you’re searching for close parallels, said Ziegler, “you’re looking at fugitive slave cases, because there are not many times in history when states are trying to tell other states what to do in this way.” The point is not that abortion bans are comparable to slavery in a moral sense, but that they create potentially irreconcilable legal frameworks.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.
It's interesting. A recent development in the reproductive justice movement is discouraging people from bringing coat hangers to protests because it implies that all self-managed abortions are dangerous, when that is clearly not the case with medication abortion. They are also discouraging any Handmaid's Tale imagery because it centers the white experience. But I still see people showing up in the red capes ad white bonnets, which is annoying.
I'll be interested to see where this (the effort referenced in the article) goes.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.
My chief argument against stuff like coat hangers and Handmaid outfits is that they're meant to shock and cause some kind of re-evaluation or motivation, but I don't think it works anymore. Our hypersensory, hypermediated daily experience (and decline in public propriety) has made us mostly numb to these types of tactics.JennyB wrote: ↑11 May 2022, 12:14pmIt's interesting. A recent development in the reproductive justice movement is discouraging people from bringing coat hangers to protests because it implies that all self-managed abortions are dangerous, when that is clearly not the case with medication abortion. They are also discouraging any Handmaid's Tale imagery because it centers the white experience. But I still see people showing up in the red capes ad white bonnets, which is annoying.
I'll be interested to see where this (the effort referenced in the article) goes.
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.
Oh, for sure. Which is why we don't bring signs like "Fuck Abortion bans" like some of our coalition partners do when in the state capitol testifying for a hearing. And we don't antagonize people who are non-political and work in the capitol who are just trying to do their underpaid jobs.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑11 May 2022, 12:22pmMy chief argument against stuff like coat hangers and Handmaid outfits is that they're meant to shock and cause some kind of re-evaluation or motivation, but I don't think it works anymore. Our hypersensory, hypermediated daily experience (and decline in public propriety) has made us mostly numb to these types of tactics.JennyB wrote: ↑11 May 2022, 12:14pmIt's interesting. A recent development in the reproductive justice movement is discouraging people from bringing coat hangers to protests because it implies that all self-managed abortions are dangerous, when that is clearly not the case with medication abortion. They are also discouraging any Handmaid's Tale imagery because it centers the white experience. But I still see people showing up in the red capes ad white bonnets, which is annoying.
I'll be interested to see where this (the effort referenced in the article) goes.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.
If you tell white americans not to do something, they'll probably do it regardless of what side they're on.JennyB wrote: ↑11 May 2022, 12:14pmIt's interesting. A recent development in the reproductive justice movement is discouraging people from bringing coat hangers to protests because it implies that all self-managed abortions are dangerous, when that is clearly not the case with medication abortion. They are also discouraging any Handmaid's Tale imagery because it centers the white experience. But I still see people showing up in the red capes ad white bonnets, which is annoying.
I'll be interested to see where this (the effort referenced in the article) goes.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.
Don't treat the poor with respect!Kory wrote: ↑11 May 2022, 2:19pmIf you tell white americans not to do something, they'll probably do it regardless of what side they're on.JennyB wrote: ↑11 May 2022, 12:14pmIt's interesting. A recent development in the reproductive justice movement is discouraging people from bringing coat hangers to protests because it implies that all self-managed abortions are dangerous, when that is clearly not the case with medication abortion. They are also discouraging any Handmaid's Tale imagery because it centers the white experience. But I still see people showing up in the red capes ad white bonnets, which is annoying.
I'll be interested to see where this (the effort referenced in the article) goes.
Nope, didn't work.
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.
Bingo.Kory wrote: ↑11 May 2022, 2:19pmIf you tell white americans not to do something, they'll probably do it regardless of what side they're on.JennyB wrote: ↑11 May 2022, 12:14pmIt's interesting. A recent development in the reproductive justice movement is discouraging people from bringing coat hangers to protests because it implies that all self-managed abortions are dangerous, when that is clearly not the case with medication abortion. They are also discouraging any Handmaid's Tale imagery because it centers the white experience. But I still see people showing up in the red capes ad white bonnets, which is annoying.
I'll be interested to see where this (the effort referenced in the article) goes.
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