No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

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Flex
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Flex »

I definitely have plenty of room in my heart to blame Democrats, particularly for the disaster of 2016 and RBG's non-retirement, but most of my vitriol is definitely directed to, like, the court justices and anti-abortion movement and trump and the Republican party and so forth.

Admittedly, that's partly because I haven't felt very convinced about the effectiveness of any of the offered "solutions" on roe to actually create a durable protection of the right to abortion.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

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Clarence Thomas is 74, he could potentially go any minute. I hope it hurts.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by revbob »

Kory wrote:
24 Jun 2022, 6:07pm
Clarence Thomas is 74, he could potentially go any minute. I hope it hurts.
Unfortunately evil lives on.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by BostonBeaneater »

revbob wrote:
24 Jun 2022, 8:36pm
Kory wrote:
24 Jun 2022, 6:07pm
Clarence Thomas is 74, he could potentially go any minute. I hope it hurts.
Unfortunately evil lives on.
Maybe one of those pubicy Cokes will finally do it’s job.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Howard Beale »

Flex wrote:
24 Jun 2022, 2:48pm
I definitely have plenty of room in my heart to blame Democrats, particularly for the disaster of 2016 and RBG's non-retirement, but most of my vitriol is definitely directed to, like, the court justices and anti-abortion movement and trump and the Republican party and so forth.
Republicans never pretended to care about women's reproductive rights in the first place, though. It's arguably more nefarious to grandstand and feign outrage over a wedge issue that you've spent decades leveraging for votes and fundraising while having no intention of doing anything about it.





Dems have the White House and both chambers of congress, they could have codified Roe into national law at any time. In fact, both Obama and Biden promised to do just that on day one of their respective presidencies.


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Right on cue, the Democratic Party had the fundraising e-mails and texts locked, loaded and ready-to-go the second this decision came down.


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Let's not forget that just a month ago Pelosi, Steny Hoyer and Jim Clyburn were actively campaigning for an anti-abortion Democrat (who also happens to be under active FBI investigation).



No need to worry, though, the Democrats have already come up with a foolproof solution to this whole debacle: Vote Blue even harder next time.

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It's utter fucking lunacy at this point that anyone can still vote Republican or Democrat.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Low Down Low »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Jun 2022, 11:06am
America just gets closer and closer to reclaiming greatness. All the awfulness of the past 6 years, I keep coming back to the abysmal campaign that Clinton ran. Just fucking terrible in its consequences.
As an aside, I subjected myself, for some reason to Clinton's post election debrief - What Happened - which iirc didn't contain much by way of self-reproach or even self-reflection and could usefully have been subtitled "I'm so great. How could you not vote for me, you bunch of utter deplorables?" The stench of liberal hubris and complacency was off the charts for me and would have to add RBG's
apparent decision not to retire under Obama because she wanted Clinton to have the honour of nominating her replacement instead.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by matedog »

Howard Beale wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 4:39am

Dems have the White House and both chambers of congress, they could have codified Roe into national law at any time.
Uhh, do you know how senate passes legislation?

Come on, don’t both sides this.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Flex »

Howard Beale wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 4:39am
Dems have the White House and both chambers of congress, they could have codified Roe into national law at any time. In fact, both Obama and Biden promised to do just that on day one of their respective presidencies.
I think they should've tried to pass a bill too to give folks the extra couple of weeks* of abortion access that would have allowed but a federal bill is subject to judicial review and would have been struck down by the courts around the same time (or will get immediately struck down if passed now). No idea why people keep saying you can "codify" in a way that circumvents the ability of the supreme court to overturn. Genuinely I've asked a bunch of times on Twitter and tried to read advocacy about it and no one really explains how that would work, so I'd be interested if you know the theory of how the legislation would survive judicial review.

The other solution I've heard, court packing, I remember we all used to like because it was an accelerationist tactic and the point was that over time would erode public trust in the judicial system precisely because every 4 years or so we'd get a new court configuration that would toggle controversial laws on and off. Which might lead to good long term ends but I don't know if we can really put in the bucket of ways to, as I said, create a lasting, durable protection for abortion. At least not for some decades.
It's utter fucking lunacy at this point that anyone can still vote Republican or Democrat.
Colorado, as the example I'm familiar with since I live here, has gone from Republican control to democratic control over the course of my living here. As a result, strong abortion protections were put in place and yesterday they clicked in and we have some of the strongest protections in the country. Abortion access to the moment of birth, passed by Democrats. The Republican party is uniformly committed to ending those protections (and are running on doing so). Pretty much every state where abortion isn't about to be made illegal is run by Democrats.

I wouldn't tell anyone they have to vote for anyone, or vote at all. I really don't give a fuck what anyone does. But the idea that democrats and republicans are functionally the same on abortion doesn't seem to square with how we see different states handling this issue.

*ETA: could be a couple of years if the courts don't enjoin, I guess I'm baking in an assumption they'd do so but idk for sure
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Flex »

Also, I feel like I should have said this at the top, but I'd be really curious for Mrs. B's thoughts on all this. She's doing the work, in a red state, and I'd value her perspective from the front lines on what the future holds/next steps/etc.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Silent Majority »

Flex wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 8:26am
Howard Beale wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 4:39am
Dems have the White House and both chambers of congress, they could have codified Roe into national law at any time. In fact, both Obama and Biden promised to do just that on day one of their respective presidencies.
I think they should've tried to pass a bill too to give folks the extra couple of weeks* of abortion access that would have allowed but a federal bill is subject to judicial review and would have been struck down by the courts around the same time (or will get immediately struck down if passed now). No idea why people keep saying you can "codify" in a way that circumvents the ability of the supreme court to overturn. Genuinely I've asked a bunch of times on Twitter and tried to read advocacy about it and no one really explains how that would work, so I'd be interested if you know the theory of how the legislation would survive judicial review.

The other solution I've heard, court packing, I remember we all used to like because it was an accelerationist tactic and the point was that over time would erode public trust in the judicial system precisely because every 4 years or so we'd get a new court configuration that would toggle controversial laws on and off. Which might lead to good long term ends but I don't know if we can really put in the bucket of ways to, as I said, create a lasting, durable protection for abortion. At least not for some decades.
It's utter fucking lunacy at this point that anyone can still vote Republican or Democrat.
Colorado, as the example I'm familiar with since I live here, has gone from Republican control to democratic control over the course of my living here. As a result, strong abortion protections were put in place and yesterday they clicked in and we have some of the strongest protections in the country. Abortion access to the moment of birth, passed by Democrats. The Republican party is uniformly committed to ending those protections (and are running on doing so). Pretty much every state where abortion isn't about to be made illegal is run by Democrats.

I wouldn't tell anyone they have to vote for anyone, or vote at all. I really don't give a fuck what anyone does. But the idea that democrats and republicans are functionally the same on abortion doesn't seem to square with how we see different states handling this issue.

*ETA: could be a couple of years if the courts don't enjoin, I guess I'm baking in an assumption they'd do so but idk for sure
Would an Exec order not do any good?
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

The talk about the possibility of Republicans seeking to ban abortion at the national level suggests that they think federal law can overrule state law on the issue. If that's the case, then, federal law legalizing abortion should be possible, no? It's a jurisdiction issue, right, as to which level of government holds on health care.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Flex »

Silent Majority wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 5:17pm
Would an Exec order not do any good?
(Obviously, all of the below - and above for that matter - carries an "I am not a constitutional lawyer or expert of any kind" disclaimer)

I think the problem is you can't pass an executive order overriding a supreme court decision. Merick Garland did come out and affirm a commitment to protecting interstate travel to seek an abortion, so maybe there's something Biden could do there (or with mail order abortion pills). The issue is executive orders are the MOST susceptible to the problem of "the next guy can just overturn this." If we're trying to brainstorm our way out of the "vote blue harder" response, exec orders actually strengthen the argument for having to tie your raft to the ss democrat.
Dr. Medulla wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 5:59pm
The talk about the possibility of Republicans seeking to ban abortion at the national level suggests that they think federal law can overrule state law on the issue. If that's the case, then, federal law legalizing abortion should be possible, no? It's a jurisdiction issue, right, as to which level of government holds on health care.
I'm just spitballing, smarter people probably have better angles on this, but I think the supreme court gets around this completely logical reasoning by pointing out the legal standard they made up and then lied about the history of is one of "historical tradition" and they can just say the u.s. has no historical tradition of abortion but it has one to a right to life from conception. That's a total lie on multiple levels, but their latest ruling is all rank bullshit too, so what the fuck do they care?

As I said, I haven't seen any compelling schemes that there's a way to protect women's bodily autonomy without control of the supreme court (would love to be wrong!). You can either try court packing with the intent of destroying the legal system and eventually building something new or playing a long game like the anti-woman movement just did and get your court rebuilt in your image over decades. I have no idea what's "better" (in the abstract, rendering the supreme court useless seems attractive) but I'm very down on the idea that there's One Weird Trick to quickly save our domestic human rights.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Flex »

Actually, I take that back: there is One Weird Trick to solving all this, but saying what it is would get the FBI knocking on my door.

Faux Addendum: Dear FBI, I AM NOT advocating for the One Weird Trick. It would be illegal, and thus morally wrong.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

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Flex wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 2:07pm
Also, I feel like I should have said this at the top, but I'd be really curious for Mrs. B's thoughts on all this. She's doing the work, in a red state, and I'd value her perspective from the front lines on what the future holds/next steps/etc.
Thanks, Flex. Obviously, we knew this was coming. And Missouri has essentially been living in a post-Roe world for years already (72 hour waiting periods, trans-vaginal ultrasounds, one abortion facility in the whole state, etc). I'm still in shock. For some reason, I never thought it would happen. Naïve, I know. My org co-sponsored and helped organize a rally last night with thousands of attendees and while it may have made people feel better, it's just so grim.

We had a program the other night with the medical director of our local Planned Parenthood and an OBGYN in private practice (who happens to be a friend and member of my synagogue). The PP doctor is always great to hear from, but I think what struck a lot of people, that they didn't really think about before, is the ramifications of how doctors practice medicine. She had a patient last week whose water broke at 16 weeks and she kept saying "thankfully it's this week and not next week" because while the fetus was no longer viable, it still had a heartbeat. In MO now, abortion is only permitted if the pregnant parent's life is in danger, and it seems like that's a grey area. Doctors are going to be violating the Hippocratic oath. St. Louis has a world class medical facility through Barnes Jewish Hospital/Washington University. Why would anyone want to come here now? Why would anyone send their kid to college here? Why would anyone want to move here for a job?

So our short term plan at NCJW is to work with the Missouri Abortion Fund, which funds only abortion procedures, to pay for accommodations and transportation for patients who want to go to Illinois to get an abortion. There are two clinics (one independent and one PP) right across the river - so about 10 minutes from downtown St. Louis. Our long term plan is to get involved in some kind of lawsuit challenging this ruling as violating the establishment clause, since Judaism does not believe life begins at conception and the health of the birthing person is paramount. Abortion is actually required in some circumstances.

The awful legislature wasn't able to pass any of these bills during the most recent session because they were too busy fighting about redistricting, but for next session, I anticipate bills calling for prohibiting helping people cross state lines, prohibiting the termination of ectopic pregnancies (which will kill actual people) and I even heard rumblings that they are going to try and prohibit abortions in other states for people who conceived in MO - like, say, you're driving from Denver to Indianapolis and you spend the night in St. Louis, have sex and get pregnant and then leave the next day. Party of small government, you say?

Part of me wants to get the fuck out of Missouri, but most of me thinks I need to stay and fight. And as much as I give it grief (our "pizza," our morans, our best fans in baseball BS), I really do love St. Louis.

I'm just livid and sick. Sorry for the long answer. I think this is the most I have ever written here!
Last edited by JennyB on 25 Jun 2022, 8:53pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by JennyB »

If anyone wants to watch something uplifting, my friends Shira and Daniel put this camp together for LGBTQ+ kids and it's fucking awesome:

https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/news ... n-85697759
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