No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

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matedog
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by matedog » 20 Feb 2019, 11:01am

Flex wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 2:42pm
Sounds like the new Michael Jackson documentary, Leaving Neverland, revives the sexual abuse allegations that long dogged MJ to, in this environment, damning effect: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/opin ... rland.html
I'll tell you, I don't believe Wade Robson. Or the Arvizo claim in like 03.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by WestwayKid » 20 Feb 2019, 11:24am

Flex wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 2:42pm
Sounds like the new Michael Jackson documentary, Leaving Neverland, revives the sexual abuse allegations that long dogged MJ to, in this environment, damning effect: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/opin ... rland.html
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 20 Feb 2019, 11:42am

matedog wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:01am
Flex wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 2:42pm
Sounds like the new Michael Jackson documentary, Leaving Neverland, revives the sexual abuse allegations that long dogged MJ to, in this environment, damning effect: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/opin ... rland.html
I'll tell you, I don't believe Wade Robson. Or the Arvizo claim in like 03.
Whoa. Why?
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by WestwayKid » 20 Feb 2019, 11:49am

Dr. Medulla wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:42am
matedog wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:01am
Flex wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 2:42pm
Sounds like the new Michael Jackson documentary, Leaving Neverland, revives the sexual abuse allegations that long dogged MJ to, in this environment, damning effect: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/opin ... rland.html
I'll tell you, I don't believe Wade Robson. Or the Arvizo claim in like 03.
Whoa. Why?
I've honestly never been able to decide whether or not I think he is/was guilty. I've always leaned towards him being guilty, but then there is just enough reasonable doubt in my mind...
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Silent Majority » 20 Feb 2019, 11:58am

Believe victims, friends.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by WestwayKid » 20 Feb 2019, 12:02pm

Silent Majority wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:58am
Believe victims, friends.
Definitely.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by matedog » 20 Feb 2019, 12:09pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:42am
matedog wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:01am
Flex wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 2:42pm
Sounds like the new Michael Jackson documentary, Leaving Neverland, revives the sexual abuse allegations that long dogged MJ to, in this environment, damning effect: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/opin ... rland.html
I'll tell you, I don't believe Wade Robson. Or the Arvizo claim in like 03.
Whoa. Why?
I think we've been over this before, Arvizo's family had a pretty significant history of questionable lawsuits and grifting. His mom seems particularly shitty.

Wade Robson had testified numerous times that Jackson never did anything to him. Jackson dies, Robson needs money, and all of a sudden he recovers memories and sues the estate for $1.5b after failing to land a book deal claiming sex abuse.

Both incidents were shitty people/families who were desperate for money. It seems very plausible that they would lie about such a horrible thing for what could be a substantial sum of money.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by matedog » 20 Feb 2019, 12:10pm

Silent Majority wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:58am
Believe victims, friends.
I feel shitty for not doing so in this case. But given the facts, I have to question what are wretched allegations against someone.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by matedog » 20 Feb 2019, 12:15pm

Here's where we discussed this before: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31&hilit=robson&start=27930
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 20 Feb 2019, 12:16pm

matedog wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 12:09pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:42am
matedog wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:01am
Flex wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 2:42pm
Sounds like the new Michael Jackson documentary, Leaving Neverland, revives the sexual abuse allegations that long dogged MJ to, in this environment, damning effect: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/opin ... rland.html
I'll tell you, I don't believe Wade Robson. Or the Arvizo claim in like 03.
Whoa. Why?
I think we've been over this before, Arvizo's family had a pretty significant history of questionable lawsuits and grifting. His mom seems particularly shitty.

Wade Robson had testified numerous times that Jackson never did anything to him. Jackson dies, Robson needs money, and all of a sudden he recovers memories and sues the estate for $1.5b after failing to land a book deal claiming sex abuse.

Both incidents were shitty people/families who were desperate for money. It seems very plausible that they would lie about such a horrible thing for what could be a substantial sum of money.
Enh, maybe. But Jackson forfeited the benefit of the doubt a long time back, and we should well appreciate that celebrities' fame and wealth encourage more than a few to abuse their status (i.e., MeToo). Yeah, it's plausible that people were lying, but more probable that Jackson was a pedophile who used his celebrity to gather prey.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Flex » 20 Feb 2019, 12:21pm

matedog wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 12:10pm
I feel shitty for not doing so in this case. But given the facts, I have to question what are wretched allegations against someone.
You gonna watch the documentary to see if it changes your mind?
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by WestwayKid » 20 Feb 2019, 12:39pm

I was never a big fan - but I can still vividly remember the day he died. It was a really nice June afternoon in Milwaukee. I heard the news that paramedics were responding to an incident at this residence. We had closed on our house in the morning and that evening we went with my mom and dad to watch a Beatles tribute band in a county part and somewhere during the set the host of the weekly concert series - a local Milwaukee radio jock - announced to the crowd that Michael Jackson had died. It was weird - I'm sure not John Lennon level - but still kind of crazy.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by matedog » 20 Feb 2019, 12:39pm

Flex wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 12:21pm
matedog wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 12:10pm
I feel shitty for not doing so in this case. But given the facts, I have to question what are wretched allegations against someone.
You gonna watch the documentary to see if it changes your mind?
Maybe. I should probably read up on the cases more in conjunction or prior.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by WestwayKid » 20 Feb 2019, 12:43pm

Regarding the allegations - I feel like there might have been some instances where people took advantage of the situation - but not necessarily of him. I think he probably did some very shady things and that left him open - especially after he was acquitted - for other people to come forward. My ex-wife always thought he was innocent. She thought his reclusive lifestyle and apparently stunted emotional growth made him an easy mark.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by 101Walterton » 20 Feb 2019, 1:23pm

matedog wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 12:09pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:42am
matedog wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:01am
Flex wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 2:42pm
Sounds like the new Michael Jackson documentary, Leaving Neverland, revives the sexual abuse allegations that long dogged MJ to, in this environment, damning effect: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/opin ... rland.html
I'll tell you, I don't believe Wade Robson. Or the Arvizo claim in like 03.
Whoa. Why?
I think we've been over this before, Arvizo's family had a pretty significant history of questionable lawsuits and grifting. His mom seems particularly shitty.

Wade Robson had testified numerous times that Jackson never did anything to him. Jackson dies, Robson needs money, and all of a sudden he recovers memories and sues the estate for $1.5b after failing to land a book deal claiming sex abuse.

Both incidents were shitty people/families who were desperate for money. It seems very plausible that they would lie about such a horrible thing for what could be a substantial sum of money.
Perhaps Robson denied all allegation when Jackson was alive for same reason he is making them now he is dead.
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