I've an admittedly only small bit of experience of those countries but one of the things that instantly struck me was the general tolerance of relatively strict state control over their lives which, going back to covid for a minute, explains why, in many instances, they were able to impose such severe lockdowns. I never for one moment imagined it could ever be copied this side of the globe.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 4:13pmRight—those Pacific rim nations never embraced the individualist ideal when they adopted capitalism, so there is still a value on the social whole. Not without problems, but a lot to admire, too.eumaas wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 12:29pmJapan has a lot of problems and some serious sickness around capitalism but I think they’d be a good example of what a competent conservative government looks like. Still a lot of awfulness but there’s at least some visible concern for the common good.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 12:19pmThe older I've gotten, and read more and thought more, I do find some virtues in traditional conservative community values. Not without some reservation or criticism, of course, but the ideals of a group identity and concern for members of the group. The right has completely abandoned that—covid has exposed the right as actively anti-social—but the left's often kneejerk rejection of traditional values makes me wince.eumaas wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 12:05pmYeah, I’ve really come around to this view. I would even prefer a competent but mildly conservative government if they also favored the common good.
The Dems leave something to be desired when it comes to competence and the common good but they aren’t scorched earth lunatics like the Republicans at least, who seem to identify with the Joker for some reason.
But yeah, give me a competent government that thinks it’s part of the job description to care for the common good.
Hey limeys
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Low Down Low
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Re: Hey limeys
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: Hey limeys
My brother lives in Thailand, and during family Zoom sessions the rest of us were just incredulous at the restrictions that were put in place right off the bat. Just couldn't imagine anything like that happening here.Low Down Low wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 5:20pmI've an admittedly only small bit of experience of those countries but one of the things that instantly struck me was the general tolerance of relatively strict state control over their lives which, going back to covid for a minute, explains why, in many instances, they were able to impose such severe lockdowns. I never for one moment imagined it could ever be copied this side of the globe.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 4:13pmRight—those Pacific rim nations never embraced the individualist ideal when they adopted capitalism, so there is still a value on the social whole. Not without problems, but a lot to admire, too.eumaas wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 12:29pmJapan has a lot of problems and some serious sickness around capitalism but I think they’d be a good example of what a competent conservative government looks like. Still a lot of awfulness but there’s at least some visible concern for the common good.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 12:19pmThe older I've gotten, and read more and thought more, I do find some virtues in traditional conservative community values. Not without some reservation or criticism, of course, but the ideals of a group identity and concern for members of the group. The right has completely abandoned that—covid has exposed the right as actively anti-social—but the left's often kneejerk rejection of traditional values makes me wince.eumaas wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 12:05pmYeah, I’ve really come around to this view. I would even prefer a competent but mildly conservative government if they also favored the common good.
The Dems leave something to be desired when it comes to competence and the common good but they aren’t scorched earth lunatics like the Republicans at least, who seem to identify with the Joker for some reason.
But yeah, give me a competent government that thinks it’s part of the job description to care for the common good.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Low Down Low
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Re: Hey limeys
When i heard twunts over here moaning about lockdowns, I'd always think of the Irish guy living in Wuhan I'd heard interviewed on the radio. He was in either Week 5 or 6 of being locked into his apartment which was on 20th floor or something while military volunteers dropped by twice a week to deliver supplies. Now that, I'd say, is a fucking Lockdown!Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 5:49pmMy brother lives in Thailand, and during family Zoom sessions the rest of us were just incredulous at the restrictions that were put in place right off the bat. Just couldn't imagine anything like that happening here.Low Down Low wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 5:20pmI've an admittedly only small bit of experience of those countries but one of the things that instantly struck me was the general tolerance of relatively strict state control over their lives which, going back to covid for a minute, explains why, in many instances, they were able to impose such severe lockdowns. I never for one moment imagined it could ever be copied this side of the globe.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 4:13pmRight—those Pacific rim nations never embraced the individualist ideal when they adopted capitalism, so there is still a value on the social whole. Not without problems, but a lot to admire, too.eumaas wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 12:29pmJapan has a lot of problems and some serious sickness around capitalism but I think they’d be a good example of what a competent conservative government looks like. Still a lot of awfulness but there’s at least some visible concern for the common good.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 12:19pm
The older I've gotten, and read more and thought more, I do find some virtues in traditional conservative community values. Not without some reservation or criticism, of course, but the ideals of a group identity and concern for members of the group. The right has completely abandoned that—covid has exposed the right as actively anti-social—but the left's often kneejerk rejection of traditional values makes me wince.
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: Hey limeys
I also think about the restrictions and rationing during wartime. Hell, the UK maintained rationing on various goods and services well into the 1950s. We flat-out don't get what sacrifice in a crisis means. Which isn't to say that I'd eagerly greet a Chinese lockdown, but the whining that went on here was embarrassing.Low Down Low wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 6:00pmWhen i heard twunts over here moaning about lockdowns, I'd always think of the Irish guy living in Wuhan I'd heard interviewed on the radio. He was in either Week 5 or 6 of being locked into his apartment which was on 20th floor or something while military volunteers dropped by twice a week to deliver supplies. Now that, I'd say, is a fucking Lockdown!Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 5:49pmMy brother lives in Thailand, and during family Zoom sessions the rest of us were just incredulous at the restrictions that were put in place right off the bat. Just couldn't imagine anything like that happening here.Low Down Low wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 5:20pmI've an admittedly only small bit of experience of those countries but one of the things that instantly struck me was the general tolerance of relatively strict state control over their lives which, going back to covid for a minute, explains why, in many instances, they were able to impose such severe lockdowns. I never for one moment imagined it could ever be copied this side of the globe.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 4:13pmRight—those Pacific rim nations never embraced the individualist ideal when they adopted capitalism, so there is still a value on the social whole. Not without problems, but a lot to admire, too.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Low Down Low
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Re: Hey limeys
I think the cultural gap between here and there is a chasm. Just one small personal experience, I wss in Japan and Korea for the 2002 world cup (soccerball!). The night i arrived in Seoul the national team was playing so there were big screens all around the main square and i think the crowd was estimated around 1m, basically a sea of people as far as the eye could stretch in all directions. I was really bushed so decided I'd check in to hotel, take a nap and join the party later. And nap had, i indeed dressed and exited hotel in expectation of a good night only to be met by...ghostly silence. Not only was the place empty, there was literally not a single shred of evidence that anybody had ever been there at all. Not even a stray crisp packet or empty beer can. As if a giant suction machine had swept across it and hoovered everything up.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 6:32pmI also think about the restrictions and rationing during wartime. Hell, the UK maintained rationing on various goods and services well into the 1950s. We flat-out don't get what sacrifice in a crisis means. Which isn't to say that I'd eagerly greet a Chinese lockdown, but the whining that went on here was embarrassing.Low Down Low wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 6:00pmWhen i heard twunts over here moaning about lockdowns, I'd always think of the Irish guy living in Wuhan I'd heard interviewed on the radio. He was in either Week 5 or 6 of being locked into his apartment which was on 20th floor or something while military volunteers dropped by twice a week to deliver supplies. Now that, I'd say, is a fucking Lockdown!Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 5:49pmMy brother lives in Thailand, and during family Zoom sessions the rest of us were just incredulous at the restrictions that were put in place right off the bat. Just couldn't imagine anything like that happening here.Low Down Low wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 5:20pmI've an admittedly only small bit of experience of those countries but one of the things that instantly struck me was the general tolerance of relatively strict state control over their lives which, going back to covid for a minute, explains why, in many instances, they were able to impose such severe lockdowns. I never for one moment imagined it could ever be copied this side of the globe.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 4:13pm
Right—those Pacific rim nations never embraced the individualist ideal when they adopted capitalism, so there is still a value on the social whole. Not without problems, but a lot to admire, too.
Long story short, while not making too much of it, it still kinda left me with conflicting emotions. Admiration for the civic spirit obviously on show, the collective resolve to not make a pig sty of their beautiful town, but also a little uneasy at the level of control and cultural training it implied. There's a balance to be found, i guess, and I'm not quite sure which among us has ever got it truly right.
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: Hey limeys
I completely get your conflicted emotions. A powerful social organism at work, one that shames our selfishness and civic cynicism, but is there any room for dissent?Low Down Low wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 7:00pmI think the cultural gap between here and there is a chasm. Just one small personal experience, I wss in Japan and Korea for the 2002 world cup (soccerball!). The night i arrived in Seoul the national team was playing so there were big screens all around the main square and i think the crowd was estimated around 1m, basically a sea of people as far as the eye could stretch in all directions. I was really bushed so decided I'd check in to hotel, take a nap and join the party later. And nap had, i indeed dressed and exited hotel in expectation of a good night only to be met by...ghostly silence. Not only was the place empty, there was literally not a single shred of evidence that anybody had ever been there at all. Not even a stray crisp packet or empty beer can. As if a giant suction machine had swept across it and hoovered everything up.
Long story short, while not making too much of it, it still kinda left me with conflicting emotions. Admiration for the civic spirit obviously on show, the collective resolve to not make a pig sty of their beautiful town, but also a little uneasy at the level of control and cultural training it implied. There's a balance to be found, i guess, and I'm not quite sure which among us has ever got it truly right.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Low Down Low
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Re: Hey limeys
Yeah, that's the question and from my limited travels around those areas, i wouldn't be near at all qualified to answer it. I didn't notice much evidence of it anyway, but then it's not as if i knew where to look to begin with.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 7:07pmI completely get your conflicted emotions. A powerful social organism at work, one that shames our selfishness and civic cynicism, but is there any room for dissent?Low Down Low wrote: ↑05 Oct 2022, 7:00pmI think the cultural gap between here and there is a chasm. Just one small personal experience, I wss in Japan and Korea for the 2002 world cup (soccerball!). The night i arrived in Seoul the national team was playing so there were big screens all around the main square and i think the crowd was estimated around 1m, basically a sea of people as far as the eye could stretch in all directions. I was really bushed so decided I'd check in to hotel, take a nap and join the party later. And nap had, i indeed dressed and exited hotel in expectation of a good night only to be met by...ghostly silence. Not only was the place empty, there was literally not a single shred of evidence that anybody had ever been there at all. Not even a stray crisp packet or empty beer can. As if a giant suction machine had swept across it and hoovered everything up.
Long story short, while not making too much of it, it still kinda left me with conflicting emotions. Admiration for the civic spirit obviously on show, the collective resolve to not make a pig sty of their beautiful town, but also a little uneasy at the level of control and cultural training it implied. There's a balance to be found, i guess, and I'm not quite sure which among us has ever got it truly right.
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Re: Hey limeys
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
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Low Down Low
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Re: Hey limeys
Excellent but also very frightening. The nightmare scenario is Truss somehow holding out and De Santis or, god forbid, Trump winning in 2024. They'd flog them the nhs like cheap family silver.
- Marky Dread
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Re: Hey limeys
Exactly mate, this is a battle the British electorate needs to win. Everytime the Tories go past a 5 year term you end up with strikes and further poverty for the poor. The NHS is barely standing and it's the Tory dream to destroy it or privatise it fully. Fuck them!Low Down Low wrote: ↑06 Oct 2022, 4:51amExcellent but also very frightening. The nightmare scenario is Truss somehow holding out and De Santis or, god forbid, Trump winning in 2024. They'd flog them the nhs like cheap family silver.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
-
Low Down Low
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- Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am
Re: Hey limeys
Yeah, it does seem that they are happy enough to see it gutted and run down (for which they'll never attach any blame to themselves) so they can argue the need for reform which inevitably means getting the profiteers involved. I don't think that's anywhere close to the realm of conspiracy theory. And i also remember hard brexit tory mps openly discussing the nhs as part of their holy grail US free trade deal, in league with those think tanks and lobby groups Monbiot talks about in that clip. It's not as if they're even trying to hide it!Marky Dread wrote: ↑06 Oct 2022, 5:19amExactly mate, this is a battle the British electorate needs to win. Everytime the Tories go past a 5 year term you end up with strikes and further poverty for the poor. The NHS is barely standing and it's the Tory dream to destroy it or privatise it fully. Fuck them!Low Down Low wrote: ↑06 Oct 2022, 4:51amExcellent but also very frightening. The nightmare scenario is Truss somehow holding out and De Santis or, god forbid, Trump winning in 2024. They'd flog them the nhs like cheap family silver.
- Marky Dread
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Re: Hey limeys
They simply have no shame when it comes to the NHS as it's not anything they take a pride in. It wasn't their idea and anything they can take away from the everyday man and the working classes will feel like a victory.Low Down Low wrote: ↑06 Oct 2022, 6:12amYeah, it does seem that they are happy enough to see it gutted and run down (for which they'll never attach any blame to themselves) so they can argue the need for reform which inevitably means getting the profiteers involved. I don't think that's anywhere close to the realm of conspiracy theory. And i also remember hard brexit tory mps openly discussing the nhs as part of their holy grail US free trade deal, in league with those think tanks and lobby groups Monbiot talks about in that clip. It's not as if they're even trying to hide it!Marky Dread wrote: ↑06 Oct 2022, 5:19amExactly mate, this is a battle the British electorate needs to win. Everytime the Tories go past a 5 year term you end up with strikes and further poverty for the poor. The NHS is barely standing and it's the Tory dream to destroy it or privatise it fully. Fuck them!Low Down Low wrote: ↑06 Oct 2022, 4:51amExcellent but also very frightening. The nightmare scenario is Truss somehow holding out and De Santis or, god forbid, Trump winning in 2024. They'd flog them the nhs like cheap family silver.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
-
Low Down Low
- Unknown Immortal
- Posts: 4922
- Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am
Re: Hey limeys
Those bankers' bonuses won't pay for themselves.Marky Dread wrote: ↑06 Oct 2022, 6:16amThey simply have no shame when it comes to the NHS as it's not anything they take a pride in. It wasn't their idea and anything they can take away from the everyday man and the working classes will feel like a victory.Low Down Low wrote: ↑06 Oct 2022, 6:12amYeah, it does seem that they are happy enough to see it gutted and run down (for which they'll never attach any blame to themselves) so they can argue the need for reform which inevitably means getting the profiteers involved. I don't think that's anywhere close to the realm of conspiracy theory. And i also remember hard brexit tory mps openly discussing the nhs as part of their holy grail US free trade deal, in league with those think tanks and lobby groups Monbiot talks about in that clip. It's not as if they're even trying to hide it!Marky Dread wrote: ↑06 Oct 2022, 5:19amExactly mate, this is a battle the British electorate needs to win. Everytime the Tories go past a 5 year term you end up with strikes and further poverty for the poor. The NHS is barely standing and it's the Tory dream to destroy it or privatise it fully. Fuck them!Low Down Low wrote: ↑06 Oct 2022, 4:51amExcellent but also very frightening. The nightmare scenario is Truss somehow holding out and De Santis or, god forbid, Trump winning in 2024. They'd flog them the nhs like cheap family silver.
- Marky Dread
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Re: Hey limeys
Exactly but they would pay for some junior doctors and orderlies.Low Down Low wrote: ↑06 Oct 2022, 6:26amThose bankers' bonuses won't pay for themselves.Marky Dread wrote: ↑06 Oct 2022, 6:16amThey simply have no shame when it comes to the NHS as it's not anything they take a pride in. It wasn't their idea and anything they can take away from the everyday man and the working classes will feel like a victory.Low Down Low wrote: ↑06 Oct 2022, 6:12amYeah, it does seem that they are happy enough to see it gutted and run down (for which they'll never attach any blame to themselves) so they can argue the need for reform which inevitably means getting the profiteers involved. I don't think that's anywhere close to the realm of conspiracy theory. And i also remember hard brexit tory mps openly discussing the nhs as part of their holy grail US free trade deal, in league with those think tanks and lobby groups Monbiot talks about in that clip. It's not as if they're even trying to hide it!Marky Dread wrote: ↑06 Oct 2022, 5:19amExactly mate, this is a battle the British electorate needs to win. Everytime the Tories go past a 5 year term you end up with strikes and further poverty for the poor. The NHS is barely standing and it's the Tory dream to destroy it or privatise it fully. Fuck them!Low Down Low wrote: ↑06 Oct 2022, 4:51am
Excellent but also very frightening. The nightmare scenario is Truss somehow holding out and De Santis or, god forbid, Trump winning in 2024. They'd flog them the nhs like cheap family silver.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
-
Low Down Low
- Unknown Immortal
- Posts: 4922
- Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am
Re: iHey limeys
I can see that being especially challenging given a lot of those roles have been traditionally filled by people they wish to send to Rwanda.Marky Dread wrote: ↑06 Oct 2022, 6:47amExactly but they would pay for some junior doctors and orderlies.Low Down Low wrote: ↑06 Oct 2022, 6:26amThose bankers' bonuses won't pay for themselves.Marky Dread wrote: ↑06 Oct 2022, 6:16amThey simply have no shame when it comes to the NHS as it's not anything they take a pride in. It wasn't their idea and anything they can take away from the everyday man and the working classes will feel like a victory.Low Down Low wrote: ↑06 Oct 2022, 6:12amYeah, it does seem that they are happy enough to see it gutted and run down (for which they'll never attach any blame to themselves) so they can argue the need for reform which inevitably means getting the profiteers involved. I don't think that's anywhere close to the realm of conspiracy theory. And i also remember hard brexit tory mps openly discussing the nhs as part of their holy grail US free trade deal, in league with those think tanks and lobby groups Monbiot talks about in that clip. It's not as if they're even trying to hide it!Marky Dread wrote: ↑06 Oct 2022, 5:19am
Exactly mate, this is a battle the British electorate needs to win. Everytime the Tories go past a 5 year term you end up with strikes and further poverty for the poor. The NHS is barely standing and it's the Tory dream to destroy it or privatise it fully. Fuck them!