Hey limeys

Politics and other such topical creams.
101Walterton
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by 101Walterton » 18 Feb 2019, 8:28pm

Marky Dread wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 6:51pm
101Walterton wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 4:54pm
Marky Dread wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 4:35pm
101Walterton wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 3:22pm
Marky Dread wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 2:57pm


It's a complicated one for me. I'm all for second chances but she knew who was joining and has shown no remorse. If she wasn't a young woman with a child would people feel differently. I personally don't know what to think on this.
Yes it is which is why I wanted the views of some ‘reasonably :mrgreen: ‘ rational Limeys. I think if she is a British citizen ( which I understand she is) then she has every right to return to Britain. However I also think she should face the consequences of her actions / crimes just like any other person would.
Wouldn’t the spooks want to talk to her to get as much information as possible to help keep the troops safe over there?
I have no idea regards the tactical side of things. She doesn't seem to know very much about anything. I'm finding it difficult to feel sympathy towards her as she has stated she had no problems regards the beheadings that took place. The real problem for me is I do feel genuinely sorry for her child as every child should have it's mother close. Like I said it's really complex.
She would know a lot albeit inadvertently.
Agreed it is tough for the child who is innocent plus she has aleady lost two but not sure if that was illness, disease or injury? For that reason alone she should be allowed home for the child’s sake.
Yes but what if she is then jailed?
That is a possibility, probability, yes. She should be detained at the very least until she has been interviewed and confirmed as not a threat. No reason she can't be detained with her baby. Prison not the correct place but I doubt there is an alternative.

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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Silent Majority » 19 Feb 2019, 2:23am

Flex wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 1:03pm
Mrs. B has brought this up before, but while most of the thinking given by these splitters is eye-rolling centrist nonsense, the issue with anti-semitism seems salient. I've sort of kept myself out of discourse since I'm neither British or Jewish, but I'd be curious if folks here thought there was some truth to that particular allegation. I do feel like I've heard enough from Corbyn, and know his positions, to say that accusations of anti-semitism targeting him personally are off base, but the Left hasn't always been great about cleaning its own house on Israel/Palestine issues when they find themselves with repulsive fellow travelers in their midst.

Most of what I read is filtered through fairly mainstream American news outlets though, so I don't really get a sense of what people are really thinking locally.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by JennyB » 19 Feb 2019, 4:18pm

Flex wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 1:03pm
Mrs. B has brought this up before, but while most of the thinking given by these splitters is eye-rolling centrist nonsense, the issue with anti-semitism seems salient. I've sort of kept myself out of discourse since I'm neither British or Jewish, but I'd be curious if folks here thought there was some truth to that particular allegation. I do feel like I've heard enough from Corbyn, and know his positions, to say that accusations of anti-semitism targeting him personally are off base, but the Left hasn't always been great about cleaning its own house on Israel/Palestine issues when they find themselves with repulsive fellow travelers in their midst.

Most of what I read is filtered through fairly mainstream American news outlets though, so I don't really get a sense of what people are really thinking locally.
FWIW, my very lefty British cousins are scared shitless. They also resent (as would I if I lived there) the Tories taking advantage of this as if they have been historically welcoming to the Jewish community. Which we know is ridiculous. It reminds me of the situation with Omar here - now all of a sudden, all of these republicans are trying to take advantage of the situation. They said nothing when Trump said there were good people on both sides at the neo nazi march, or when Steve King opened his trap.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Dr. Medulla » 19 Feb 2019, 4:29pm

JennyB wrote:
19 Feb 2019, 4:18pm
It reminds me of the situation with Omar here - now all of a sudden, all of these republicans are trying to take advantage of the situation.
Speaking of which, help me out here because I'm having trouble seeing her comments as necessarily trafficking in anti-Semitic tropes. Lobbying organizations do use money to buy influence, either to grease certain wheels or outright bribery. That's pretty much the working method of all major lobbying organizations—we can help you out if you help us, and money is the fuel. Just because anti-Semitism frequently uses the trope of the sinister Jew using money to subvert justice, does that mean we can never assert that a pro-Israel lobbying organization engages in that shit—because it's a lobbying organization, not because it's Jewish—without being called anti-Semitic? But I'm happy to be corrected here if I'm missing aspects of this story.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Flex » 19 Feb 2019, 4:30pm

JennyB wrote:
19 Feb 2019, 4:18pm
FWIW, my very lefty British cousins are scared shitless. They also resent (as would I if I lived there) the Tories taking advantage of this as if they have been historically welcoming to the Jewish community. Which we know is ridiculous. It reminds me of the situation with Omar here - now all of a sudden, all of these republicans are trying to take advantage of the situation. They said nothing when Trump said there were good people on both sides at the neo nazi march, or when Steve King opened his trap.
Or when Trump told a room full of Jewish people that he knows they won't support him because they can't buy him.

Thanks for the thoughts, all.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by 101Walterton » 19 Feb 2019, 5:24pm

Marky Dread wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 6:51pm
101Walterton wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 4:54pm
Marky Dread wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 4:35pm
101Walterton wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 3:22pm
Marky Dread wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 2:57pm


It's a complicated one for me. I'm all for second chances but she knew who was joining and has shown no remorse. If she wasn't a young woman with a child would people feel differently. I personally don't know what to think on this.
Yes it is which is why I wanted the views of some ‘reasonably :mrgreen: ‘ rational Limeys. I think if she is a British citizen ( which I understand she is) then she has every right to return to Britain. However I also think she should face the consequences of her actions / crimes just like any other person would.
Wouldn’t the spooks want to talk to her to get as much information as possible to help keep the troops safe over there?
I have no idea regards the tactical side of things. She doesn't seem to know very much about anything. I'm finding it difficult to feel sympathy towards her as she has stated she had no problems regards the beheadings that took place. The real problem for me is I do feel genuinely sorry for her child as every child should have it's mother close. Like I said it's really complex.
She would know a lot albeit inadvertently.
Agreed it is tough for the child who is innocent plus she has aleady lost two but not sure if that was illness, disease or injury? For that reason alone she should be allowed home for the child’s sake.
Yes but what if she is then jailed?
After saying the Manchester bombing was justified, prison is probably the safest place for her.

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Re: Hey limeys

Post by JennyB » 19 Feb 2019, 6:08pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
19 Feb 2019, 4:29pm
JennyB wrote:
19 Feb 2019, 4:18pm
It reminds me of the situation with Omar here - now all of a sudden, all of these republicans are trying to take advantage of the situation.
Speaking of which, help me out here because I'm having trouble seeing her comments as necessarily trafficking in anti-Semitic tropes. Lobbying organizations do use money to buy influence, either to grease certain wheels or outright bribery. That's pretty much the working method of all major lobbying organizations—we can help you out if you help us, and money is the fuel. Just because anti-Semitism frequently uses the trope of the sinister Jew using money to subvert justice, does that mean we can never assert that a pro-Israel lobbying organization engages in that shit—because it's a lobbying organization, not because it's Jewish—without being called anti-Semitic? But I'm happy to be corrected here if I'm missing aspects of this story.
I think part of it is that she has a pretty well documented history of making antisemitic statements. And she hasn't called out any other lobbying groups which have a bigger influence than even AIPAC. I think people are making a mountain out of a molehill with this one, though.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Dr. Medulla » 19 Feb 2019, 6:25pm

JennyB wrote:
19 Feb 2019, 6:08pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
19 Feb 2019, 4:29pm
JennyB wrote:
19 Feb 2019, 4:18pm
It reminds me of the situation with Omar here - now all of a sudden, all of these republicans are trying to take advantage of the situation.
Speaking of which, help me out here because I'm having trouble seeing her comments as necessarily trafficking in anti-Semitic tropes. Lobbying organizations do use money to buy influence, either to grease certain wheels or outright bribery. That's pretty much the working method of all major lobbying organizations—we can help you out if you help us, and money is the fuel. Just because anti-Semitism frequently uses the trope of the sinister Jew using money to subvert justice, does that mean we can never assert that a pro-Israel lobbying organization engages in that shit—because it's a lobbying organization, not because it's Jewish—without being called anti-Semitic? But I'm happy to be corrected here if I'm missing aspects of this story.
I think part of it is that she has a pretty well documented history of making antisemitic statements. And she hasn't called out any other lobbying groups which have a bigger influence than even AIPAC. I think people are making a mountain out of a molehill with this one, though.
Ah, okay. I wasn't aware of her reputation, for lack of a better word. I was treating this in an isolated manner. Mercy buckets!
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Marky Dread » 20 Feb 2019, 9:33am

101Walterton wrote:
19 Feb 2019, 5:24pm
Marky Dread wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 6:51pm
101Walterton wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 4:54pm
Marky Dread wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 4:35pm
101Walterton wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 3:22pm


Yes it is which is why I wanted the views of some ‘reasonably :mrgreen: ‘ rational Limeys. I think if she is a British citizen ( which I understand she is) then she has every right to return to Britain. However I also think she should face the consequences of her actions / crimes just like any other person would.
Wouldn’t the spooks want to talk to her to get as much information as possible to help keep the troops safe over there?
I have no idea regards the tactical side of things. She doesn't seem to know very much about anything. I'm finding it difficult to feel sympathy towards her as she has stated she had no problems regards the beheadings that took place. The real problem for me is I do feel genuinely sorry for her child as every child should have it's mother close. Like I said it's really complex.
She would know a lot albeit inadvertently.
Agreed it is tough for the child who is innocent plus she has aleady lost two but not sure if that was illness, disease or injury? For that reason alone she should be allowed home for the child’s sake.
Yes but what if she is then jailed?
After saying the Manchester bombing was justified, prison is probably the safest place for her.
She wasn't actually saying that in so many words. She doesn't come across as being too bright to me. You can hear the propaganda that has been brainwashed into her. And remember where she is and where she will be going back to. She said the retalliation was justified but the killing of the innocents was not warranted any more than the killing of innocents there was.

I agree her coming back here now is a very bad idea. Someone will find out where she is and will hurt her. By stripping her of her British citizenship may just be the best wat to keep her and her child safe(er).

Now if we could only strip those other terrorists (the Royal family) of their citizenship also.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Silent Majority » 20 Feb 2019, 9:46am

Tory defections are good news.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Dr. Medulla » 20 Feb 2019, 10:16am

Silent Majority wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 9:46am
Tory defections are good news.
This all has a weird resemblance of sorts to what happened in Canada in the 80s and 90s. So, in the early 80s, the Canada, led by the Liberals, gained true constitutional independence from Britain, which involved constructing our own constitution. At the time, Quebec was led by separatists who weren't exactly on board with what the rest of Canada wanted in a constitution, which led to it being passed without Quebec's support. A few years later, the Conservatives are led by Brian Mulroney, from Quebec, who strikes his own deal with French nationalists to get what they want into the constitution. The Tories sweep Quebec in the '84 election and he begins constitutional talks to satisfy the nationalists. A deal is made but fails to be ratified in several provinces, which leads to another plan and a national referendum, which also fails. Meanwhile, conservatives outside of Quebec, especially on the prairies, feel that Mulroney is too pro-Quebec and they split off into a populist party, while Quebec nationalists, bitter over the constitutional failure, form their own federal separatist party. The effect is that the federal Conservatives were utterly gutted, and in the 1993 federal election the governing Tories went from 169 seats … to 2. (The social democrats were also almost wiped out.) So parliament was dominated for the next decade by the Liberals faced by conservative populists and French nationalists. All set in motion by Mulroney's playing footsie with the nationalists who felt betrayed by the Liberals over the constitution. (There was also another referendum in Quebec to secede in the 90s, which barely failed. Part of the fall-out from that was a scandal that ended up consuming the federal Liberal government.)

Sound anything like what David Cameron unleashed by agreeing to that stupid Brexit referendum?
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101Walterton
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by 101Walterton » 20 Feb 2019, 1:17pm

Marky Dread wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 9:33am
101Walterton wrote:
19 Feb 2019, 5:24pm
Marky Dread wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 6:51pm
101Walterton wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 4:54pm
Marky Dread wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 4:35pm


I have no idea regards the tactical side of things. She doesn't seem to know very much about anything. I'm finding it difficult to feel sympathy towards her as she has stated she had no problems regards the beheadings that took place. The real problem for me is I do feel genuinely sorry for her child as every child should have it's mother close. Like I said it's really complex.
She would know a lot albeit inadvertently.
Agreed it is tough for the child who is innocent plus she has aleady lost two but not sure if that was illness, disease or injury? For that reason alone she should be allowed home for the child’s sake.
Yes but what if she is then jailed?
After saying the Manchester bombing was justified, prison is probably the safest place for her.
She wasn't actually saying that in so many words. She doesn't come across as being too bright to me. You can hear the propaganda that has been brainwashed into her. And remember where she is and where she will be going back to. She said the retalliation was justified but the killing of the innocents was not warranted any more than the killing of innocents there was.

I agree her coming back here now is a very bad idea. Someone will find out where she is and will hurt her. By stripping her of her British citizenship may just be the best wat to keep her and her child safe(er).

Now if we could only strip those other terrorists (the Royal family) of their citizenship also.
I still don’t think disowning her and leaving her to rot in a Syrian refugee camp is the correct way to treat a British citizen regardless of what she has done. Bring her and the baby home then sort it out.

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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Marky Dread » 20 Feb 2019, 1:29pm

101Walterton wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 1:17pm
Marky Dread wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 9:33am
101Walterton wrote:
19 Feb 2019, 5:24pm
Marky Dread wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 6:51pm
101Walterton wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 4:54pm


She would know a lot albeit inadvertently.
Agreed it is tough for the child who is innocent plus she has aleady lost two but not sure if that was illness, disease or injury? For that reason alone she should be allowed home for the child’s sake.
Yes but what if she is then jailed?
After saying the Manchester bombing was justified, prison is probably the safest place for her.
She wasn't actually saying that in so many words. She doesn't come across as being too bright to me. You can hear the propaganda that has been brainwashed into her. And remember where she is and where she will be going back to. She said the retalliation was justified but the killing of the innocents was not warranted any more than the killing of innocents there was.

I agree her coming back here now is a very bad idea. Someone will find out where she is and will hurt her. By stripping her of her British citizenship may just be the best wat to keep her and her child safe(er).

Now if we could only strip those other terrorists (the Royal family) of their citizenship also.
I still don’t think disowning her and leaving her to rot in a Syrian refugee camp is the correct way to treat a British citizen regardless of what she has done. Bring her and the baby home then sort it out.
Yes I agree that she should be brought here first. I don't think this is where she should stay due to the hatred that surrounds
her. Keeping that child safe should be priority number one.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Marky Dread » 20 Feb 2019, 1:36pm

Silent Majority wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 9:05am
The boy geniuses are leaving the Labour party. This will go great. It will be fantastic.
"Hey look at us were leaving too". Only two hours ago I had no idea who Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen were. Now they are famous and get to show off their new Marks & Spencers outfits. Politics is a lovely way to spend a day.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Silent Majority » 20 Feb 2019, 2:34pm

Marky Dread wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 1:36pm
Silent Majority wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 9:05am
The boy geniuses are leaving the Labour party. This will go great. It will be fantastic.
"Hey look at us were leaving too". Only two hours ago I had no idea who Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen were. Now they are famous and get to show off their new Marks & Spencers outfits. Politics is a lovely way to spend a day.
Image
I've got more respect for these three than the insignificant seven. I believe theirs is a genuinely principled act, albeit with principles I find abhorrent.
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