No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

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matedog
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by matedog »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 8:31am
Flex wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 8:16am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 7:37am
It's horrifying how much cultural penetration some of this stuff still has. I think this particular bit of insanity has some roots in at least some strains of NOI followers, unfortunately.
That's the thing—I expect it from the fringes. I don't accept its validity, but, yup, if it's confined to fringes it's manageable and the adherents properly scorned by the vast majority. But its growing presence in the mainstream, aided by the "well, people are talking about this, so there must be something to it" gullibility of those who quantity with quality, that's what's terrifying.
Perhaps my view is skewed as I'm not directly impacted by potential rising or mainstreaming anti-semitism, but I still think this stuff is VERY fringy. Kyrie Irving is well regarded as a nut job - his flat earther beliefs are well known and everyone kinda dismisses his non-basketball attributes as "yeah, that's just Kyrie." Those no legitimacy or legitimizing of his views. Not dismissing the horribleness of Kanye's beliefs as well, but he has been considered unhinged and mentally unwell for a long time now in spite of the continued attention of his (declining in quality) music. Hell, this is the cover of his Ye album from 2018:
Image

I'm not saying his beliefs aren't despicable, but I don't think him espousing his views does anything to legitimize them. Maybe I'm being optimistic.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

matedog wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 12:11pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 8:31am
Flex wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 8:16am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 7:37am
It's horrifying how much cultural penetration some of this stuff still has. I think this particular bit of insanity has some roots in at least some strains of NOI followers, unfortunately.
That's the thing—I expect it from the fringes. I don't accept its validity, but, yup, if it's confined to fringes it's manageable and the adherents properly scorned by the vast majority. But its growing presence in the mainstream, aided by the "well, people are talking about this, so there must be something to it" gullibility of those who quantity with quality, that's what's terrifying.
Perhaps my view is skewed as I'm not directly impacted by potential rising or mainstreaming anti-semitism, but I still think this stuff is VERY fringy. Kyrie Irving is well regarded as a nut job - his flat earther beliefs are well known and everyone kinda dismisses his non-basketball attributes as "yeah, that's just Kyrie." Those no legitimacy or legitimizing of his views. Not dismissing the horribleness of Kanye's beliefs as well, but he has been considered unhinged and mentally unwell for a long time now in spite of the continued attention of his (declining in quality) music. Hell, this is the cover of his Ye album from 2018:
Image

I'm not saying his beliefs aren't despicable, but I don't think him espousing his views does anything to legitimize them. Maybe I'm being optimistic.
The comfort in saying antisemitic things in public is way way more common than it was even five years ago. There was a piece in the Washington Post a few days back about American Jews who are starting to have conversations about where they might move to given the direction and momentum of thing. Yes, it’s still not acceptable or tolerated in ways that racism towards other peoples is—i.e., the threshold for being “cancelled”—but it’s getting a more common hearing in, say, Republican politics. I mean, QAnon works the antisemitic game and polls suggest a good 50% of Republicans buy into the basic precepts of QAnon. How close Republican politics is to the tipping point of fully buying in, I have no idea, but it’s not inconceivable to have an open QAnon wing of the party dominate its agenda in the near future.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by JennyB »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 12:32pm
matedog wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 12:11pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 8:31am
Flex wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 8:16am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 7:37am
It's horrifying how much cultural penetration some of this stuff still has. I think this particular bit of insanity has some roots in at least some strains of NOI followers, unfortunately.
That's the thing—I expect it from the fringes. I don't accept its validity, but, yup, if it's confined to fringes it's manageable and the adherents properly scorned by the vast majority. But its growing presence in the mainstream, aided by the "well, people are talking about this, so there must be something to it" gullibility of those who quantity with quality, that's what's terrifying.
Perhaps my view is skewed as I'm not directly impacted by potential rising or mainstreaming anti-semitism, but I still think this stuff is VERY fringy. Kyrie Irving is well regarded as a nut job - his flat earther beliefs are well known and everyone kinda dismisses his non-basketball attributes as "yeah, that's just Kyrie." Those no legitimacy or legitimizing of his views. Not dismissing the horribleness of Kanye's beliefs as well, but he has been considered unhinged and mentally unwell for a long time now in spite of the continued attention of his (declining in quality) music. Hell, this is the cover of his Ye album from 2018:
Image

I'm not saying his beliefs aren't despicable, but I don't think him espousing his views does anything to legitimize them. Maybe I'm being optimistic.
The comfort in saying antisemitic things in public is way way more common than it was even five years ago. There was a piece in the Washington Post a few days back about American Jews who are starting to have conversations about where they might move to given the direction and momentum of thing. Yes, it’s still not acceptable or tolerated in ways that racism towards other peoples is—i.e., the threshold for being “cancelled”—but it’s getting a more common hearing in, say, Republican politics. I mean, QAnon works the antisemitic game and polls suggest a good 50% of Republicans buy into the basic precepts of QAnon. How close Republican politics is to the tipping point of fully buying in, I have no idea, but it’s not inconceivable to have an open QAnon wing of the party dominate its agenda in the near future.
It's keeping me up at night.
Got a Rake? Sure!

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by BostonBeaneater »

JennyB wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 12:54pm

It's keeping me up at night.
I don't blame you. What is the pulse in your local Jewish community? I would imagine people are scared and angry.

I'd like you to know that anyone decent I know is feeling the same way.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by JennyB »

BostonBeaneater wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 1:30pm
JennyB wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 12:54pm

It's keeping me up at night.
I don't blame you. What is the pulse in your local Jewish community? I would imagine people are scared and angry.

I'd like you to know that anyone decent I know is feeling the same way.
Thank you. It's hard to distinguish between the anguish about MO in general and antisemitism in particular. It hasn't gotten too bad here, but my son's school has extra security and so does my synagogue. And my office gets threats all the time, but, again, I don't know if that's more because of our position on abortion or being a Jewish organization.
Got a Rake? Sure!

IMCT: Inane Middle-Class Twats - Dr. M

" *sigh* it's right when they throw the penis pump out the window." -Hoy

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

JennyB wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 12:54pm
It's keeping me up at night.
Dana Milbank had a column a few days ago that was a bit of cold water in the face because, on a visceral level, it's just outside my experience and culture, but another confirmation that my background—thru none of my own efforts—provides a safety net unavailable to many others.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... anamilbank
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by JennyB »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 3:47pm
JennyB wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 12:54pm
It's keeping me up at night.
Dana Milbank had a column a few days ago that was a bit of cold water in the face because, on a visceral level, it's just outside my experience and culture, but another confirmation that my background—thru none of my own efforts—provides a safety net unavailable to many others.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... anamilbank
I can't access it because it's behind a paywall, but I know the gist.

Also, now I have Mag 7 in my head. :)
Got a Rake? Sure!

IMCT: Inane Middle-Class Twats - Dr. M

" *sigh* it's right when they throw the penis pump out the window." -Hoy

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

JennyB wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 10:10am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 3:47pm
JennyB wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 12:54pm
It's keeping me up at night.
Dana Milbank had a column a few days ago that was a bit of cold water in the face because, on a visceral level, it's just outside my experience and culture, but another confirmation that my background—thru none of my own efforts—provides a safety net unavailable to many others.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... anamilbank
I can't access it because it's behind a paywall, but I know the gist.

Also, now I have Mag 7 in my head. :)
I pdf'd it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ipa5pf8u1cpyu ... 20Post.pdf
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by JennyB »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 10:57am
JennyB wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 10:10am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 3:47pm
JennyB wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 12:54pm
It's keeping me up at night.
Dana Milbank had a column a few days ago that was a bit of cold water in the face because, on a visceral level, it's just outside my experience and culture, but another confirmation that my background—thru none of my own efforts—provides a safety net unavailable to many others.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... anamilbank
I can't access it because it's behind a paywall, but I know the gist.

Also, now I have Mag 7 in my head. :)
I pdf'd it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ipa5pf8u1cpyu ... 20Post.pdf
Thank you. I think a lot of us are feeling this way, but like the author said, until now, others have had it much worse in the US. But that doesn't mean things won't change for us. I can get citizenship in Germany or Austria as direct descendants of displaced holocaust survivors/refugees, and so could VH, Jr, but VH can't (his family was already in the US by the early 1900s). We would likely go to Israel, but after yesterday's election, I'm not so sure I'd want to do that either.
Got a Rake? Sure!

IMCT: Inane Middle-Class Twats - Dr. M

" *sigh* it's right when they throw the penis pump out the window." -Hoy

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Flex »

JennyB wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 12:44pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 10:57am
JennyB wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 10:10am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 3:47pm
JennyB wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 12:54pm
It's keeping me up at night.
Dana Milbank had a column a few days ago that was a bit of cold water in the face because, on a visceral level, it's just outside my experience and culture, but another confirmation that my background—thru none of my own efforts—provides a safety net unavailable to many others.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... anamilbank
I can't access it because it's behind a paywall, but I know the gist.

Also, now I have Mag 7 in my head. :)
I pdf'd it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ipa5pf8u1cpyu ... 20Post.pdf
Thank you. I think a lot of us are feeling this way, but like the author said, until now, others have had it much worse in the US. But that doesn't mean things won't change for us. I can get citizenship in Germany or Austria as direct descendants of displaced holocaust survivors/refugees, and so could VH, Jr, but VH can't (his family was already in the US by the early 1900s). We would likely go to Israel, but after yesterday's election, I'm not so sure I'd want to do that either.
If you and VHjr are able to get German citizenship, can VH gey some sort of spousal visa?
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by JennyB »

Flex wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 12:53pm
JennyB wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 12:44pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 10:57am
JennyB wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 10:10am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 3:47pm


Dana Milbank had a column a few days ago that was a bit of cold water in the face because, on a visceral level, it's just outside my experience and culture, but another confirmation that my background—thru none of my own efforts—provides a safety net unavailable to many others.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... anamilbank
I can't access it because it's behind a paywall, but I know the gist.

Also, now I have Mag 7 in my head. :)
I pdf'd it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ipa5pf8u1cpyu ... 20Post.pdf
Thank you. I think a lot of us are feeling this way, but like the author said, until now, others have had it much worse in the US. But that doesn't mean things won't change for us. I can get citizenship in Germany or Austria as direct descendants of displaced holocaust survivors/refugees, and so could VH, Jr, but VH can't (his family was already in the US by the early 1900s). We would likely go to Israel, but after yesterday's election, I'm not so sure I'd want to do that either.
If you and VHjr are able to get German citizenship, can VH gey some sort of spousal visa?
That's a good question. My cousin actually did this, so I am going to ask her. I mean, it has always been my dream to see Depeche Mode in Berlin. Silver linings?
Got a Rake? Sure!

IMCT: Inane Middle-Class Twats - Dr. M

" *sigh* it's right when they throw the penis pump out the window." -Hoy

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Flex »

JennyB wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 1:02pm
That's a good question. My cousin actually did this, so I am going to ask her. I mean, it has always been my dream to see Depeche Mode in Berlin. Silver linings?
You could bring Olaf with you!
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by JennyB »

Flex wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 1:15pm
JennyB wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 1:02pm
That's a good question. My cousin actually did this, so I am going to ask her. I mean, it has always been my dream to see Depeche Mode in Berlin. Silver linings?
You could bring Olaf with you!
Obviously!
Got a Rake? Sure!

IMCT: Inane Middle-Class Twats - Dr. M

" *sigh* it's right when they throw the penis pump out the window." -Hoy

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

JennyB wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 1:22pm
Flex wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 1:15pm
JennyB wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 1:02pm
That's a good question. My cousin actually did this, so I am going to ask her. I mean, it has always been my dream to see Depeche Mode in Berlin. Silver linings?
You could bring Olaf with you!
Obviously!
He would have ever so much chocolate to share! And I believe he knows two Scorpions.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

JennyB
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by JennyB »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 1:24pm
JennyB wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 1:22pm
Flex wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 1:15pm
JennyB wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 1:02pm
That's a good question. My cousin actually did this, so I am going to ask her. I mean, it has always been my dream to see Depeche Mode in Berlin. Silver linings?
You could bring Olaf with you!
Obviously!
He would have ever so much chocolate to share! And I believe he knows two Scorpions.
The winds of change, indeed. Does he know Hasselhoff?
Got a Rake? Sure!

IMCT: Inane Middle-Class Twats - Dr. M

" *sigh* it's right when they throw the penis pump out the window." -Hoy

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