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No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116593
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
I meant to respond to this awhile back.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 12:32pm
The comfort in saying antisemitic things in public is way way more common than it was even five years ago. There was a piece in the Washington Post a few days back about American Jews who are starting to have conversations about where they might move to given the direction and momentum of thing. Yes, it’s still not acceptable or tolerated in ways that racism towards other peoples is—i.e., the threshold for being “cancelled”—but it’s getting a more common hearing in, say, Republican politics. I mean, QAnon works the antisemitic game and polls suggest a good 50% of Republicans buy into the basic precepts of QAnon. How close Republican politics is to the tipping point of fully buying in, I have no idea, but it’s not inconceivable to have an open QAnon wing of the party dominate its agenda in the near future.
I want to word this cautiously and with sensitivity, but I honestly don't think antisemitism is gaining any sort of legitimacy or traction. I hear from my Jewish friends that it is, but, and not to sound insensitive, I've been hearing that most of my adult life. I'm trying to maintain a level of understanding, knowing that a lot of Jewish families endure generational trauma and perhaps this is a reaction out of an abundance of self preservational caution which would be 100% understandable. I hear a lot of conflation of Trumpism with antisemitism, but he has Jews in his immediate family and had Jews in prominent positions in his cabinet and blindly supported Israel. Yes there is an antisemitic faction within the alt-right that loves Trump and hates Jews. They don't seem to be bothered by this cognitive dissonance, but racists don't tend to be intelligent or think things through too well. Speaking of not thinking things through too well, I think the Kanye thing bolsters that. He's not giving antisemitism any sort of credibility by wearing a mask, going on Alex Jones, and saying Hitler was great because he created microphones. Furthermore, this seems to be rooted in some semblance of Black Hebrew Israelite ideology which is pretty fringe and his spiral is overwhelmingly being met with disgust.
What I find reassuring is that venturing into antisemitism tends to cause swift and thorough backlash from the mainstream (within the US). As it should. You shit on Jews, you get (rightly) cancelled. However, you shit on Muslims and Mexicans, you get elected president.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116593
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
While I appreciate your analysis, I disagree on a few key points. One is that Trump can't be antisemitic because of friends and family. Racism doesn't demand consistency. There's always the "one of the good ones" exception. But even if you think Trump isn't antisemitic, he's extremely tolerant of them, which isn't a whole lot different. The other point is that while the response from the big blob that is the mainstream has been to condemn Kanye et al, it's important to appreciate that the subject is being normalized to the point that increasing numbers feel confident enough to raise them in public, forcing others to say no. A good and healthy society shouldn't have to deal with something so odious in the mainstream. We'll never eradicate these beliefs, but we can push and confine them to the darkest corners of the extremes. Having it gain the legitimacy of something that should be denied by the middle is a disturbing trend.matedog wrote: ↑05 Dec 2022, 11:23amI meant to respond to this awhile back.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 12:32pm
The comfort in saying antisemitic things in public is way way more common than it was even five years ago. There was a piece in the Washington Post a few days back about American Jews who are starting to have conversations about where they might move to given the direction and momentum of thing. Yes, it’s still not acceptable or tolerated in ways that racism towards other peoples is—i.e., the threshold for being “cancelled”—but it’s getting a more common hearing in, say, Republican politics. I mean, QAnon works the antisemitic game and polls suggest a good 50% of Republicans buy into the basic precepts of QAnon. How close Republican politics is to the tipping point of fully buying in, I have no idea, but it’s not inconceivable to have an open QAnon wing of the party dominate its agenda in the near future.
I want to word this cautiously and with sensitivity, but I honestly don't think antisemitism is gaining any sort of legitimacy or traction. I hear from my Jewish friends that it is, but, and not to sound insensitive, I've been hearing that most of my adult life. I'm trying to maintain a level of understanding, knowing that a lot of Jewish families endure generational trauma and perhaps this is a reaction out of an abundance of self preservational caution which would be 100% understandable. I hear a lot of conflation of Trumpism with antisemitism, but he has Jews in his immediate family and had Jews in prominent positions in his cabinet and blindly supported Israel. Yes there is an antisemitic faction within the alt-right that loves Trump and hates Jews. They don't seem to be bothered by this cognitive dissonance, but racists don't tend to be intelligent or think things through too well. Speaking of not thinking things through too well, I think the Kanye thing bolsters that. He's not giving antisemitism any sort of credibility by wearing a mask, going on Alex Jones, and saying Hitler was great because he created microphones. Furthermore, this seems to be rooted in some semblance of Black Hebrew Israelite ideology which is pretty fringe and his spiral is overwhelmingly being met with disgust.
What I find reassuring is that venturing into antisemitism tends to cause swift and thorough backlash from the mainstream (within the US). As it should. You shit on Jews, you get (rightly) cancelled. However, you shit on Muslims and Mexicans, you get elected president.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
My son's school got an antisemitic threat the other day. This happens on a regular basis to Jewish orgs. My synagogue, and all synagogues, have to have armed security. People are coming out of the woodwork and are much more comfortable expressing antisemitic ideology. And just because Trump has Jewish grandchildren doesn't mean that he's not a rabid antisemite himself. And just because he had Jews in his cabinet doesn't mean he isn't an antisemite. An overhwlming percentage of Jews vote dem, and he's very aware of this. The only reason he supported Israel so much was to appease his evangelical supporters, not out of love for the Jewish community.matedog wrote: ↑05 Dec 2022, 11:23amI meant to respond to this awhile back.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 12:32pm
The comfort in saying antisemitic things in public is way way more common than it was even five years ago. There was a piece in the Washington Post a few days back about American Jews who are starting to have conversations about where they might move to given the direction and momentum of thing. Yes, it’s still not acceptable or tolerated in ways that racism towards other peoples is—i.e., the threshold for being “cancelled”—but it’s getting a more common hearing in, say, Republican politics. I mean, QAnon works the antisemitic game and polls suggest a good 50% of Republicans buy into the basic precepts of QAnon. How close Republican politics is to the tipping point of fully buying in, I have no idea, but it’s not inconceivable to have an open QAnon wing of the party dominate its agenda in the near future.
I want to word this cautiously and with sensitivity, but I honestly don't think antisemitism is gaining any sort of legitimacy or traction. I hear from my Jewish friends that it is, but, and not to sound insensitive, I've been hearing that most of my adult life. I'm trying to maintain a level of understanding, knowing that a lot of Jewish families endure generational trauma and perhaps this is a reaction out of an abundance of self preservational caution which would be 100% understandable. I hear a lot of conflation of Trumpism with antisemitism, but he has Jews in his immediate family and had Jews in prominent positions in his cabinet and blindly supported Israel. Yes there is an antisemitic faction within the alt-right that loves Trump and hates Jews. They don't seem to be bothered by this cognitive dissonance, but racists don't tend to be intelligent or think things through too well. Speaking of not thinking things through too well, I think the Kanye thing bolsters that. He's not giving antisemitism any sort of credibility by wearing a mask, going on Alex Jones, and saying Hitler was great because he created microphones. Furthermore, this seems to be rooted in some semblance of Black Hebrew Israelite ideology which is pretty fringe and his spiral is overwhelmingly being met with disgust.
What I find reassuring is that venturing into antisemitism tends to cause swift and thorough backlash from the mainstream (within the US). As it should. You shit on Jews, you get (rightly) cancelled. However, you shit on Muslims and Mexicans, you get elected president.
Just remember that antisemitism is the canary in the coal mine. And a lot of us are scared right now. And it's not only Trump.
Got a Rake? Sure!
IMCT: Inane Middle-Class Twats - Dr. M
" *sigh* it's right when they throw the penis pump out the window." -Hoy
IMCT: Inane Middle-Class Twats - Dr. M
" *sigh* it's right when they throw the penis pump out the window." -Hoy
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
Thanks for your input. These experiences don't directly impact me so I'm less aware of them (except when the occasional synagogue attack makes national news, which I realize writing "the occasional synagogue attack" is a pretty awful thing to write with such flippancy) and it's helpful for me to know what you and others are going through to get a better understanding of the general climate of our country.JennyB wrote: ↑05 Dec 2022, 12:16pmMy son's school got an antisemitic threat the other day. This happens on a regular basis to Jewish orgs. My synagogue, and all synagogues, have to have armed security. People are coming out of the woodwork and are much more comfortable expressing antisemitic ideology. And just because Trump has Jewish grandchildren doesn't mean that he's not a rabid antisemite himself. And just because he had Jews in his cabinet doesn't mean he isn't an antisemite. An overhwlming percentage of Jews vote dem, and he's very aware of this. The only reason he supported Israel so much was to appease his evangelical supporters, not out of love for the Jewish community.matedog wrote: ↑05 Dec 2022, 11:23amI meant to respond to this awhile back.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 12:32pm
The comfort in saying antisemitic things in public is way way more common than it was even five years ago. There was a piece in the Washington Post a few days back about American Jews who are starting to have conversations about where they might move to given the direction and momentum of thing. Yes, it’s still not acceptable or tolerated in ways that racism towards other peoples is—i.e., the threshold for being “cancelled”—but it’s getting a more common hearing in, say, Republican politics. I mean, QAnon works the antisemitic game and polls suggest a good 50% of Republicans buy into the basic precepts of QAnon. How close Republican politics is to the tipping point of fully buying in, I have no idea, but it’s not inconceivable to have an open QAnon wing of the party dominate its agenda in the near future.
I want to word this cautiously and with sensitivity, but I honestly don't think antisemitism is gaining any sort of legitimacy or traction. I hear from my Jewish friends that it is, but, and not to sound insensitive, I've been hearing that most of my adult life. I'm trying to maintain a level of understanding, knowing that a lot of Jewish families endure generational trauma and perhaps this is a reaction out of an abundance of self preservational caution which would be 100% understandable. I hear a lot of conflation of Trumpism with antisemitism, but he has Jews in his immediate family and had Jews in prominent positions in his cabinet and blindly supported Israel. Yes there is an antisemitic faction within the alt-right that loves Trump and hates Jews. They don't seem to be bothered by this cognitive dissonance, but racists don't tend to be intelligent or think things through too well. Speaking of not thinking things through too well, I think the Kanye thing bolsters that. He's not giving antisemitism any sort of credibility by wearing a mask, going on Alex Jones, and saying Hitler was great because he created microphones. Furthermore, this seems to be rooted in some semblance of Black Hebrew Israelite ideology which is pretty fringe and his spiral is overwhelmingly being met with disgust.
What I find reassuring is that venturing into antisemitism tends to cause swift and thorough backlash from the mainstream (within the US). As it should. You shit on Jews, you get (rightly) cancelled. However, you shit on Muslims and Mexicans, you get elected president.
Just remember that antisemitism is the canary in the coal mine. And a lot of us are scared right now. And it's not only Trump.
In regards to Trump, the problem I think is that Trump cannot distance himself from anyone that says anything good about him. I'm unaware of anything that indicates any kind of set ideology from him that is antisemitic. It's always this indirect association due to a subset of his supporters that he can't disavow because of his extreme narcissism. I guess the question is: does it matter if the ultimate outcome is growing antisemitism?
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
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Silent Majority
- Singer-Songwriter Nancy
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- Joined: 10 Nov 2008, 8:28pm
- Location: South Londoner in the Midlands.
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
I agree with this and I'm so sorry it's the case.JennyB wrote: ↑05 Dec 2022, 12:16pmMy son's school got an antisemitic threat the other day. This happens on a regular basis to Jewish orgs. My synagogue, and all synagogues, have to have armed security. People are coming out of the woodwork and are much more comfortable expressing antisemitic ideology. And just because Trump has Jewish grandchildren doesn't mean that he's not a rabid antisemite himself. And just because he had Jews in his cabinet doesn't mean he isn't an antisemite. An overhwlming percentage of Jews vote dem, and he's very aware of this. The only reason he supported Israel so much was to appease his evangelical supporters, not out of love for the Jewish community.matedog wrote: ↑05 Dec 2022, 11:23amI meant to respond to this awhile back.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 12:32pm
The comfort in saying antisemitic things in public is way way more common than it was even five years ago. There was a piece in the Washington Post a few days back about American Jews who are starting to have conversations about where they might move to given the direction and momentum of thing. Yes, it’s still not acceptable or tolerated in ways that racism towards other peoples is—i.e., the threshold for being “cancelled”—but it’s getting a more common hearing in, say, Republican politics. I mean, QAnon works the antisemitic game and polls suggest a good 50% of Republicans buy into the basic precepts of QAnon. How close Republican politics is to the tipping point of fully buying in, I have no idea, but it’s not inconceivable to have an open QAnon wing of the party dominate its agenda in the near future.
I want to word this cautiously and with sensitivity, but I honestly don't think antisemitism is gaining any sort of legitimacy or traction. I hear from my Jewish friends that it is, but, and not to sound insensitive, I've been hearing that most of my adult life. I'm trying to maintain a level of understanding, knowing that a lot of Jewish families endure generational trauma and perhaps this is a reaction out of an abundance of self preservational caution which would be 100% understandable. I hear a lot of conflation of Trumpism with antisemitism, but he has Jews in his immediate family and had Jews in prominent positions in his cabinet and blindly supported Israel. Yes there is an antisemitic faction within the alt-right that loves Trump and hates Jews. They don't seem to be bothered by this cognitive dissonance, but racists don't tend to be intelligent or think things through too well. Speaking of not thinking things through too well, I think the Kanye thing bolsters that. He's not giving antisemitism any sort of credibility by wearing a mask, going on Alex Jones, and saying Hitler was great because he created microphones. Furthermore, this seems to be rooted in some semblance of Black Hebrew Israelite ideology which is pretty fringe and his spiral is overwhelmingly being met with disgust.
What I find reassuring is that venturing into antisemitism tends to cause swift and thorough backlash from the mainstream (within the US). As it should. You shit on Jews, you get (rightly) cancelled. However, you shit on Muslims and Mexicans, you get elected president.
Just remember that antisemitism is the canary in the coal mine. And a lot of us are scared right now. And it's not only Trump.
- Marky Dread
- Messiah of the Milk Bar
- Posts: 58977
- Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
Fuck Trump and fuck the antisemite's. Stay safe JB such a sad state of affairs.JennyB wrote: ↑05 Dec 2022, 12:16pmMy son's school got an antisemitic threat the other day. This happens on a regular basis to Jewish orgs. My synagogue, and all synagogues, have to have armed security. People are coming out of the woodwork and are much more comfortable expressing antisemitic ideology. And just because Trump has Jewish grandchildren doesn't mean that he's not a rabid antisemite himself. And just because he had Jews in his cabinet doesn't mean he isn't an antisemite. An overhwlming percentage of Jews vote dem, and he's very aware of this. The only reason he supported Israel so much was to appease his evangelical supporters, not out of love for the Jewish community.matedog wrote: ↑05 Dec 2022, 11:23amI meant to respond to this awhile back.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 12:32pm
The comfort in saying antisemitic things in public is way way more common than it was even five years ago. There was a piece in the Washington Post a few days back about American Jews who are starting to have conversations about where they might move to given the direction and momentum of thing. Yes, it’s still not acceptable or tolerated in ways that racism towards other peoples is—i.e., the threshold for being “cancelled”—but it’s getting a more common hearing in, say, Republican politics. I mean, QAnon works the antisemitic game and polls suggest a good 50% of Republicans buy into the basic precepts of QAnon. How close Republican politics is to the tipping point of fully buying in, I have no idea, but it’s not inconceivable to have an open QAnon wing of the party dominate its agenda in the near future.
I want to word this cautiously and with sensitivity, but I honestly don't think antisemitism is gaining any sort of legitimacy or traction. I hear from my Jewish friends that it is, but, and not to sound insensitive, I've been hearing that most of my adult life. I'm trying to maintain a level of understanding, knowing that a lot of Jewish families endure generational trauma and perhaps this is a reaction out of an abundance of self preservational caution which would be 100% understandable. I hear a lot of conflation of Trumpism with antisemitism, but he has Jews in his immediate family and had Jews in prominent positions in his cabinet and blindly supported Israel. Yes there is an antisemitic faction within the alt-right that loves Trump and hates Jews. They don't seem to be bothered by this cognitive dissonance, but racists don't tend to be intelligent or think things through too well. Speaking of not thinking things through too well, I think the Kanye thing bolsters that. He's not giving antisemitism any sort of credibility by wearing a mask, going on Alex Jones, and saying Hitler was great because he created microphones. Furthermore, this seems to be rooted in some semblance of Black Hebrew Israelite ideology which is pretty fringe and his spiral is overwhelmingly being met with disgust.
What I find reassuring is that venturing into antisemitism tends to cause swift and thorough backlash from the mainstream (within the US). As it should. You shit on Jews, you get (rightly) cancelled. However, you shit on Muslims and Mexicans, you get elected president.
Just remember that antisemitism is the canary in the coal mine. And a lot of us are scared right now. And it's not only Trump.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
I recently watched the Jews Don't Count documentary and had no idea Jewish schools in the UK have to have armed-intruder lockdown training and drills. It's so depressing that this is happening all over.
Putting a little stick about. Putting the frighteners on flash little twerps
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
I think what I've been missing is that though I don't think antisemitism is becoming more mainstream or legitimate, I think those that hold those views are becoming more emboldened and attacks are on the rise (quick stat research I haven't dug into too thoroughly: https://www.statista.com/statistics/816 ... in-the-us/). Assuming those stats are legit, that's pretty inarguable. Also there is a big bump in 2017 which coincides with a certain person's first term.
Jenny mentions threats to her son's school which is horrific. No one should have to deal with anything like that.
Jenny mentions threats to her son's school which is horrific. No one should have to deal with anything like that.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
- Marky Dread
- Messiah of the Milk Bar
- Posts: 58977
- Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
This disgusting stuff has been happening here in the UK for some time. Turns my stomach every time I read articles like this.matedog wrote: ↑05 Dec 2022, 3:41pmI think what I've been missing is that though I don't think antisemitism is becoming more mainstream or legitimate, I think those that hold those views are becoming more emboldened and attacks are on the rise (quick stat research I haven't dug into too thoroughly: https://www.statista.com/statistics/816 ... in-the-us/). Assuming those stats are legit, that's pretty inarguable. Also there is a big bump in 2017 which coincides with a certain person's first term.
Jenny mentions threats to her son's school which is horrific. No one should have to deal with anything like that.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the ... e-up-call/
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
I think you nailed it, I believe the MAGA culture has encouraged the hateful out there amongst us to crawl out from under their rocks and spew their venom with less fears of repercussions.matedog wrote: ↑05 Dec 2022, 3:41pmI think what I've been missing is that though I don't think antisemitism is becoming more mainstream or legitimate, I think those that hold those views are becoming more emboldened and attacks are on the rise (quick stat research I haven't dug into too thoroughly: https://www.statista.com/statistics/816 ... in-the-us/). Assuming those stats are legit, that's pretty inarguable. Also there is a big bump in 2017 which coincides with a certain person's first term.
Jenny mentions threats to her son's school which is horrific. No one should have to deal with anything like that.
God, what a mess, on the ladder of success
Where you take one step and miss the whole first rung
Where you take one step and miss the whole first rung
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
Exactly. The problem isn't a resurgence of antisemitism - it's always been there. But it was always considered fringe in the US. Remember when Jerry Springer would have neo-nazis on his show? It was absurdist theater and treated as a joke. Now it's no longer a joke. And this thing with Kanye is just what they want - white supremacists are trying to play us (Black and Jewish people) against each other.Sparky wrote: ↑05 Dec 2022, 5:44pmI think you nailed it, I believe the MAGA culture has encouraged the hateful out there amongst us to crawl out from under their rocks and spew their venom with less fears of repercussions.matedog wrote: ↑05 Dec 2022, 3:41pmI think what I've been missing is that though I don't think antisemitism is becoming more mainstream or legitimate, I think those that hold those views are becoming more emboldened and attacks are on the rise (quick stat research I haven't dug into too thoroughly: https://www.statista.com/statistics/816 ... in-the-us/). Assuming those stats are legit, that's pretty inarguable. Also there is a big bump in 2017 which coincides with a certain person's first term.
Jenny mentions threats to her son's school which is horrific. No one should have to deal with anything like that.
Got a Rake? Sure!
IMCT: Inane Middle-Class Twats - Dr. M
" *sigh* it's right when they throw the penis pump out the window." -Hoy
IMCT: Inane Middle-Class Twats - Dr. M
" *sigh* it's right when they throw the penis pump out the window." -Hoy
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116593
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
And it works because there are always idiots among the target groups willing to play along, to buy into the idea that the real enemy can be ignored in favour of attacking other targets. Frustrating to see the same dumb moves made over and over to the benefit of the worst assholes on the planet.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
Read an article about this the other day, suspect has been arrested and charged.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 955753002/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 955753002/
God, what a mess, on the ladder of success
Where you take one step and miss the whole first rung
Where you take one step and miss the whole first rung
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
Sparky wrote: ↑27 Dec 2022, 3:11pmRead an article about this the other day, suspect has been arrested and charged.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 955753002/
Flex take your meds.Police arrested a Colorado man on hate crime charges after he was seen on a TikTok video making "racist and homophobic" comments at an In-N-Out Burger on Christmas Eve in California.