No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

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Dr. Medulla
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

JennyB wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 1:26pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 1:24pm
JennyB wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 1:22pm
Flex wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 1:15pm
JennyB wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 1:02pm
That's a good question. My cousin actually did this, so I am going to ask her. I mean, it has always been my dream to see Depeche Mode in Berlin. Silver linings?
You could bring Olaf with you!
Obviously!
He would have ever so much chocolate to share! And I believe he knows two Scorpions.
The winds of change, indeed. Does he know Hasselhoff?
Can anyone truly know Hasselhoff? :ugeek:
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by matedog »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 12:32pm

The comfort in saying antisemitic things in public is way way more common than it was even five years ago. There was a piece in the Washington Post a few days back about American Jews who are starting to have conversations about where they might move to given the direction and momentum of thing. Yes, it’s still not acceptable or tolerated in ways that racism towards other peoples is—i.e., the threshold for being “cancelled”—but it’s getting a more common hearing in, say, Republican politics. I mean, QAnon works the antisemitic game and polls suggest a good 50% of Republicans buy into the basic precepts of QAnon. How close Republican politics is to the tipping point of fully buying in, I have no idea, but it’s not inconceivable to have an open QAnon wing of the party dominate its agenda in the near future.
I meant to respond to this awhile back.

I want to word this cautiously and with sensitivity, but I honestly don't think antisemitism is gaining any sort of legitimacy or traction. I hear from my Jewish friends that it is, but, and not to sound insensitive, I've been hearing that most of my adult life. I'm trying to maintain a level of understanding, knowing that a lot of Jewish families endure generational trauma and perhaps this is a reaction out of an abundance of self preservational caution which would be 100% understandable. I hear a lot of conflation of Trumpism with antisemitism, but he has Jews in his immediate family and had Jews in prominent positions in his cabinet and blindly supported Israel. Yes there is an antisemitic faction within the alt-right that loves Trump and hates Jews. They don't seem to be bothered by this cognitive dissonance, but racists don't tend to be intelligent or think things through too well. Speaking of not thinking things through too well, I think the Kanye thing bolsters that. He's not giving antisemitism any sort of credibility by wearing a mask, going on Alex Jones, and saying Hitler was great because he created microphones. Furthermore, this seems to be rooted in some semblance of Black Hebrew Israelite ideology which is pretty fringe and his spiral is overwhelmingly being met with disgust.

What I find reassuring is that venturing into antisemitism tends to cause swift and thorough backlash from the mainstream (within the US). As it should. You shit on Jews, you get (rightly) cancelled. However, you shit on Muslims and Mexicans, you get elected president.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

matedog wrote:
05 Dec 2022, 11:23am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 12:32pm

The comfort in saying antisemitic things in public is way way more common than it was even five years ago. There was a piece in the Washington Post a few days back about American Jews who are starting to have conversations about where they might move to given the direction and momentum of thing. Yes, it’s still not acceptable or tolerated in ways that racism towards other peoples is—i.e., the threshold for being “cancelled”—but it’s getting a more common hearing in, say, Republican politics. I mean, QAnon works the antisemitic game and polls suggest a good 50% of Republicans buy into the basic precepts of QAnon. How close Republican politics is to the tipping point of fully buying in, I have no idea, but it’s not inconceivable to have an open QAnon wing of the party dominate its agenda in the near future.
I meant to respond to this awhile back.

I want to word this cautiously and with sensitivity, but I honestly don't think antisemitism is gaining any sort of legitimacy or traction. I hear from my Jewish friends that it is, but, and not to sound insensitive, I've been hearing that most of my adult life. I'm trying to maintain a level of understanding, knowing that a lot of Jewish families endure generational trauma and perhaps this is a reaction out of an abundance of self preservational caution which would be 100% understandable. I hear a lot of conflation of Trumpism with antisemitism, but he has Jews in his immediate family and had Jews in prominent positions in his cabinet and blindly supported Israel. Yes there is an antisemitic faction within the alt-right that loves Trump and hates Jews. They don't seem to be bothered by this cognitive dissonance, but racists don't tend to be intelligent or think things through too well. Speaking of not thinking things through too well, I think the Kanye thing bolsters that. He's not giving antisemitism any sort of credibility by wearing a mask, going on Alex Jones, and saying Hitler was great because he created microphones. Furthermore, this seems to be rooted in some semblance of Black Hebrew Israelite ideology which is pretty fringe and his spiral is overwhelmingly being met with disgust.

What I find reassuring is that venturing into antisemitism tends to cause swift and thorough backlash from the mainstream (within the US). As it should. You shit on Jews, you get (rightly) cancelled. However, you shit on Muslims and Mexicans, you get elected president.
While I appreciate your analysis, I disagree on a few key points. One is that Trump can't be antisemitic because of friends and family. Racism doesn't demand consistency. There's always the "one of the good ones" exception. But even if you think Trump isn't antisemitic, he's extremely tolerant of them, which isn't a whole lot different. The other point is that while the response from the big blob that is the mainstream has been to condemn Kanye et al, it's important to appreciate that the subject is being normalized to the point that increasing numbers feel confident enough to raise them in public, forcing others to say no. A good and healthy society shouldn't have to deal with something so odious in the mainstream. We'll never eradicate these beliefs, but we can push and confine them to the darkest corners of the extremes. Having it gain the legitimacy of something that should be denied by the middle is a disturbing trend.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by JennyB »

matedog wrote:
05 Dec 2022, 11:23am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 12:32pm

The comfort in saying antisemitic things in public is way way more common than it was even five years ago. There was a piece in the Washington Post a few days back about American Jews who are starting to have conversations about where they might move to given the direction and momentum of thing. Yes, it’s still not acceptable or tolerated in ways that racism towards other peoples is—i.e., the threshold for being “cancelled”—but it’s getting a more common hearing in, say, Republican politics. I mean, QAnon works the antisemitic game and polls suggest a good 50% of Republicans buy into the basic precepts of QAnon. How close Republican politics is to the tipping point of fully buying in, I have no idea, but it’s not inconceivable to have an open QAnon wing of the party dominate its agenda in the near future.
I meant to respond to this awhile back.

I want to word this cautiously and with sensitivity, but I honestly don't think antisemitism is gaining any sort of legitimacy or traction. I hear from my Jewish friends that it is, but, and not to sound insensitive, I've been hearing that most of my adult life. I'm trying to maintain a level of understanding, knowing that a lot of Jewish families endure generational trauma and perhaps this is a reaction out of an abundance of self preservational caution which would be 100% understandable. I hear a lot of conflation of Trumpism with antisemitism, but he has Jews in his immediate family and had Jews in prominent positions in his cabinet and blindly supported Israel. Yes there is an antisemitic faction within the alt-right that loves Trump and hates Jews. They don't seem to be bothered by this cognitive dissonance, but racists don't tend to be intelligent or think things through too well. Speaking of not thinking things through too well, I think the Kanye thing bolsters that. He's not giving antisemitism any sort of credibility by wearing a mask, going on Alex Jones, and saying Hitler was great because he created microphones. Furthermore, this seems to be rooted in some semblance of Black Hebrew Israelite ideology which is pretty fringe and his spiral is overwhelmingly being met with disgust.

What I find reassuring is that venturing into antisemitism tends to cause swift and thorough backlash from the mainstream (within the US). As it should. You shit on Jews, you get (rightly) cancelled. However, you shit on Muslims and Mexicans, you get elected president.
My son's school got an antisemitic threat the other day. This happens on a regular basis to Jewish orgs. My synagogue, and all synagogues, have to have armed security. People are coming out of the woodwork and are much more comfortable expressing antisemitic ideology. And just because Trump has Jewish grandchildren doesn't mean that he's not a rabid antisemite himself. And just because he had Jews in his cabinet doesn't mean he isn't an antisemite. An overhwlming percentage of Jews vote dem, and he's very aware of this. The only reason he supported Israel so much was to appease his evangelical supporters, not out of love for the Jewish community.

Just remember that antisemitism is the canary in the coal mine. And a lot of us are scared right now. And it's not only Trump.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by matedog »

JennyB wrote:
05 Dec 2022, 12:16pm
matedog wrote:
05 Dec 2022, 11:23am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 12:32pm

The comfort in saying antisemitic things in public is way way more common than it was even five years ago. There was a piece in the Washington Post a few days back about American Jews who are starting to have conversations about where they might move to given the direction and momentum of thing. Yes, it’s still not acceptable or tolerated in ways that racism towards other peoples is—i.e., the threshold for being “cancelled”—but it’s getting a more common hearing in, say, Republican politics. I mean, QAnon works the antisemitic game and polls suggest a good 50% of Republicans buy into the basic precepts of QAnon. How close Republican politics is to the tipping point of fully buying in, I have no idea, but it’s not inconceivable to have an open QAnon wing of the party dominate its agenda in the near future.
I meant to respond to this awhile back.

I want to word this cautiously and with sensitivity, but I honestly don't think antisemitism is gaining any sort of legitimacy or traction. I hear from my Jewish friends that it is, but, and not to sound insensitive, I've been hearing that most of my adult life. I'm trying to maintain a level of understanding, knowing that a lot of Jewish families endure generational trauma and perhaps this is a reaction out of an abundance of self preservational caution which would be 100% understandable. I hear a lot of conflation of Trumpism with antisemitism, but he has Jews in his immediate family and had Jews in prominent positions in his cabinet and blindly supported Israel. Yes there is an antisemitic faction within the alt-right that loves Trump and hates Jews. They don't seem to be bothered by this cognitive dissonance, but racists don't tend to be intelligent or think things through too well. Speaking of not thinking things through too well, I think the Kanye thing bolsters that. He's not giving antisemitism any sort of credibility by wearing a mask, going on Alex Jones, and saying Hitler was great because he created microphones. Furthermore, this seems to be rooted in some semblance of Black Hebrew Israelite ideology which is pretty fringe and his spiral is overwhelmingly being met with disgust.

What I find reassuring is that venturing into antisemitism tends to cause swift and thorough backlash from the mainstream (within the US). As it should. You shit on Jews, you get (rightly) cancelled. However, you shit on Muslims and Mexicans, you get elected president.
My son's school got an antisemitic threat the other day. This happens on a regular basis to Jewish orgs. My synagogue, and all synagogues, have to have armed security. People are coming out of the woodwork and are much more comfortable expressing antisemitic ideology. And just because Trump has Jewish grandchildren doesn't mean that he's not a rabid antisemite himself. And just because he had Jews in his cabinet doesn't mean he isn't an antisemite. An overhwlming percentage of Jews vote dem, and he's very aware of this. The only reason he supported Israel so much was to appease his evangelical supporters, not out of love for the Jewish community.

Just remember that antisemitism is the canary in the coal mine. And a lot of us are scared right now. And it's not only Trump.
Thanks for your input. These experiences don't directly impact me so I'm less aware of them (except when the occasional synagogue attack makes national news, which I realize writing "the occasional synagogue attack" is a pretty awful thing to write with such flippancy) and it's helpful for me to know what you and others are going through to get a better understanding of the general climate of our country.

In regards to Trump, the problem I think is that Trump cannot distance himself from anyone that says anything good about him. I'm unaware of anything that indicates any kind of set ideology from him that is antisemitic. It's always this indirect association due to a subset of his supporters that he can't disavow because of his extreme narcissism. I guess the question is: does it matter if the ultimate outcome is growing antisemitism?
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Silent Majority »

JennyB wrote:
05 Dec 2022, 12:16pm
matedog wrote:
05 Dec 2022, 11:23am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 12:32pm

The comfort in saying antisemitic things in public is way way more common than it was even five years ago. There was a piece in the Washington Post a few days back about American Jews who are starting to have conversations about where they might move to given the direction and momentum of thing. Yes, it’s still not acceptable or tolerated in ways that racism towards other peoples is—i.e., the threshold for being “cancelled”—but it’s getting a more common hearing in, say, Republican politics. I mean, QAnon works the antisemitic game and polls suggest a good 50% of Republicans buy into the basic precepts of QAnon. How close Republican politics is to the tipping point of fully buying in, I have no idea, but it’s not inconceivable to have an open QAnon wing of the party dominate its agenda in the near future.
I meant to respond to this awhile back.

I want to word this cautiously and with sensitivity, but I honestly don't think antisemitism is gaining any sort of legitimacy or traction. I hear from my Jewish friends that it is, but, and not to sound insensitive, I've been hearing that most of my adult life. I'm trying to maintain a level of understanding, knowing that a lot of Jewish families endure generational trauma and perhaps this is a reaction out of an abundance of self preservational caution which would be 100% understandable. I hear a lot of conflation of Trumpism with antisemitism, but he has Jews in his immediate family and had Jews in prominent positions in his cabinet and blindly supported Israel. Yes there is an antisemitic faction within the alt-right that loves Trump and hates Jews. They don't seem to be bothered by this cognitive dissonance, but racists don't tend to be intelligent or think things through too well. Speaking of not thinking things through too well, I think the Kanye thing bolsters that. He's not giving antisemitism any sort of credibility by wearing a mask, going on Alex Jones, and saying Hitler was great because he created microphones. Furthermore, this seems to be rooted in some semblance of Black Hebrew Israelite ideology which is pretty fringe and his spiral is overwhelmingly being met with disgust.

What I find reassuring is that venturing into antisemitism tends to cause swift and thorough backlash from the mainstream (within the US). As it should. You shit on Jews, you get (rightly) cancelled. However, you shit on Muslims and Mexicans, you get elected president.
My son's school got an antisemitic threat the other day. This happens on a regular basis to Jewish orgs. My synagogue, and all synagogues, have to have armed security. People are coming out of the woodwork and are much more comfortable expressing antisemitic ideology. And just because Trump has Jewish grandchildren doesn't mean that he's not a rabid antisemite himself. And just because he had Jews in his cabinet doesn't mean he isn't an antisemite. An overhwlming percentage of Jews vote dem, and he's very aware of this. The only reason he supported Israel so much was to appease his evangelical supporters, not out of love for the Jewish community.

Just remember that antisemitism is the canary in the coal mine. And a lot of us are scared right now. And it's not only Trump.
I agree with this and I'm so sorry it's the case.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Marky Dread »

JennyB wrote:
05 Dec 2022, 12:16pm
matedog wrote:
05 Dec 2022, 11:23am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 12:32pm

The comfort in saying antisemitic things in public is way way more common than it was even five years ago. There was a piece in the Washington Post a few days back about American Jews who are starting to have conversations about where they might move to given the direction and momentum of thing. Yes, it’s still not acceptable or tolerated in ways that racism towards other peoples is—i.e., the threshold for being “cancelled”—but it’s getting a more common hearing in, say, Republican politics. I mean, QAnon works the antisemitic game and polls suggest a good 50% of Republicans buy into the basic precepts of QAnon. How close Republican politics is to the tipping point of fully buying in, I have no idea, but it’s not inconceivable to have an open QAnon wing of the party dominate its agenda in the near future.
I meant to respond to this awhile back.

I want to word this cautiously and with sensitivity, but I honestly don't think antisemitism is gaining any sort of legitimacy or traction. I hear from my Jewish friends that it is, but, and not to sound insensitive, I've been hearing that most of my adult life. I'm trying to maintain a level of understanding, knowing that a lot of Jewish families endure generational trauma and perhaps this is a reaction out of an abundance of self preservational caution which would be 100% understandable. I hear a lot of conflation of Trumpism with antisemitism, but he has Jews in his immediate family and had Jews in prominent positions in his cabinet and blindly supported Israel. Yes there is an antisemitic faction within the alt-right that loves Trump and hates Jews. They don't seem to be bothered by this cognitive dissonance, but racists don't tend to be intelligent or think things through too well. Speaking of not thinking things through too well, I think the Kanye thing bolsters that. He's not giving antisemitism any sort of credibility by wearing a mask, going on Alex Jones, and saying Hitler was great because he created microphones. Furthermore, this seems to be rooted in some semblance of Black Hebrew Israelite ideology which is pretty fringe and his spiral is overwhelmingly being met with disgust.

What I find reassuring is that venturing into antisemitism tends to cause swift and thorough backlash from the mainstream (within the US). As it should. You shit on Jews, you get (rightly) cancelled. However, you shit on Muslims and Mexicans, you get elected president.
My son's school got an antisemitic threat the other day. This happens on a regular basis to Jewish orgs. My synagogue, and all synagogues, have to have armed security. People are coming out of the woodwork and are much more comfortable expressing antisemitic ideology. And just because Trump has Jewish grandchildren doesn't mean that he's not a rabid antisemite himself. And just because he had Jews in his cabinet doesn't mean he isn't an antisemite. An overhwlming percentage of Jews vote dem, and he's very aware of this. The only reason he supported Israel so much was to appease his evangelical supporters, not out of love for the Jewish community.

Just remember that antisemitism is the canary in the coal mine. And a lot of us are scared right now. And it's not only Trump.
Fuck Trump and fuck the antisemite's. Stay safe JB such a sad state of affairs.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by oliver »

I recently watched the Jews Don't Count documentary and had no idea Jewish schools in the UK have to have armed-intruder lockdown training and drills. It's so depressing that this is happening all over.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by matedog »

I think what I've been missing is that though I don't think antisemitism is becoming more mainstream or legitimate, I think those that hold those views are becoming more emboldened and attacks are on the rise (quick stat research I haven't dug into too thoroughly: https://www.statista.com/statistics/816 ... in-the-us/). Assuming those stats are legit, that's pretty inarguable. Also there is a big bump in 2017 which coincides with a certain person's first term.

Jenny mentions threats to her son's school which is horrific. No one should have to deal with anything like that.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Marky Dread »

matedog wrote:
05 Dec 2022, 3:41pm
I think what I've been missing is that though I don't think antisemitism is becoming more mainstream or legitimate, I think those that hold those views are becoming more emboldened and attacks are on the rise (quick stat research I haven't dug into too thoroughly: https://www.statista.com/statistics/816 ... in-the-us/). Assuming those stats are legit, that's pretty inarguable. Also there is a big bump in 2017 which coincides with a certain person's first term.

Jenny mentions threats to her son's school which is horrific. No one should have to deal with anything like that.
This disgusting stuff has been happening here in the UK for some time. Turns my stomach every time I read articles like this.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the ... e-up-call/
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No fuchsias for you.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Sparky »

matedog wrote:
05 Dec 2022, 3:41pm
I think what I've been missing is that though I don't think antisemitism is becoming more mainstream or legitimate, I think those that hold those views are becoming more emboldened and attacks are on the rise (quick stat research I haven't dug into too thoroughly: https://www.statista.com/statistics/816 ... in-the-us/). Assuming those stats are legit, that's pretty inarguable. Also there is a big bump in 2017 which coincides with a certain person's first term.

Jenny mentions threats to her son's school which is horrific. No one should have to deal with anything like that.
I think you nailed it, I believe the MAGA culture has encouraged the hateful out there amongst us to crawl out from under their rocks and spew their venom with less fears of repercussions.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by JennyB »

Sparky wrote:
05 Dec 2022, 5:44pm
matedog wrote:
05 Dec 2022, 3:41pm
I think what I've been missing is that though I don't think antisemitism is becoming more mainstream or legitimate, I think those that hold those views are becoming more emboldened and attacks are on the rise (quick stat research I haven't dug into too thoroughly: https://www.statista.com/statistics/816 ... in-the-us/). Assuming those stats are legit, that's pretty inarguable. Also there is a big bump in 2017 which coincides with a certain person's first term.

Jenny mentions threats to her son's school which is horrific. No one should have to deal with anything like that.
I think you nailed it, I believe the MAGA culture has encouraged the hateful out there amongst us to crawl out from under their rocks and spew their venom with less fears of repercussions.
Exactly. The problem isn't a resurgence of antisemitism - it's always been there. But it was always considered fringe in the US. Remember when Jerry Springer would have neo-nazis on his show? It was absurdist theater and treated as a joke. Now it's no longer a joke. And this thing with Kanye is just what they want - white supremacists are trying to play us (Black and Jewish people) against each other.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

JennyB wrote:
06 Dec 2022, 10:49am
And this thing with Kanye is just what they want - white supremacists are trying to play us (Black and Jewish people) against each other.
And it works because there are always idiots among the target groups willing to play along, to buy into the idea that the real enemy can be ignored in favour of attacking other targets. Frustrating to see the same dumb moves made over and over to the benefit of the worst assholes on the planet.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Sparky »

Read an article about this the other day, suspect has been arrested and charged.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 955753002/
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by revbob »

Sparky wrote:
27 Dec 2022, 3:11pm
Read an article about this the other day, suspect has been arrested and charged.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 955753002/
Police arrested a Colorado man on hate crime charges after he was seen on a TikTok video making "racist and homophobic" comments at an In-N-Out Burger on Christmas Eve in California.
Flex take your meds.

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