No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

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WestwayKid
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by WestwayKid »

Marky Dread wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:49am
Silent Majority wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:20am
Marky Dread wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 3:01pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 2:23pm
Marky Dread wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 1:55pm


It's not a population. A population is everybody.

Stand up and protest make your voices heard. The common man is the bus driver, the train driver, the nurse, the refuge collector. If one person gets hurt or killed in these protests it's one too many. Violence is understandable but never the answer. Your welcome to your point of view but you are wrong.

Ever been in a riot? Ever had the shit kicked out of you for something you believed strongly in? Broken nose? Stabbed? Seen your friend die? If not come back and tell when you have and then tell me violence is the answer.
I've witnessed a riot but I have not had my ass kicked by the cops. My black friends have had their ass kicked by cops... endlessly and exhaustively. To their great credit they have tried every single avenue of peaceful protest and they still live in fear in this country. I have never seen a bully changes through reasonable discussion. They (police and their backers) must be made afraid and unsafe where ever they go. In other words, racists and their armed goon army should be made to feel the way they make others feel.

Look, I understand the perspective of violence as a last resort. I am just saying it is time for some last resorts. I'm 45 years old and have seem the police and surveillance state grow stronger and crueler. In my opinion that will not change until these people face consequences.

I'm not playing tough guy or promoting senseless violence. That said, you have to punch back. I'd love to hear about some magically peaceful solution but I have been waiting along time.
I there ever was a simple answer then we would of had it by now. You can not stamp out racism just like you can't stamp out hatred. Am I saying sit down and give up, no never but you will achieve nothing with violence. It has never solved a single thing except to heap more misery on those that have already endured enough. Those in power want you to get angry they want you to fight. So they can have an excuse to keep you down. They want you to know they think you are stupid and violence just plays directly into their hands. You are all stupid morons who know no better than to riot or to go looting. It's the biggest con trick on the masses ever. People are falling for it time and time again.
I don't necessarily agree with Mark's position on this, but I absolutely read the sentence that pushed the discussion into an argument as the opinion of the oppressor, not his own.
Thank you. My intention in this discussion was not to those people who are suffering day by day. My view is not that I consider them morons. But that is how they are being perceived to be in the hands of those who make the rules and hold the positions of power.

People can decide and act for themselves how they see fit. I respected Westway Kid who I was having the original conversation with for showing solidarity and protesting in a peaceful fashion.

Violence is certain to occur in these situations and with emotions running so high its totally understandable. But burning down the neighbourhoods you are living in is not the answer. Violence only adds to the fear factor of the already vulnerable people who live in those neighbourhoods. All I'm saying is rise above and find another solution. There's got to be a better way.
I completely agree. I've seen the rage firsthand and while I can never know what 400 years of oppression feels like, I've been encouraged by many local activists over the past few months. They are actively working to build a community and to unite people of all colors behind a common cause. The protest on Monday was a great example. It was well organized. It was peaceful. It was about coming together and it was anti-violence. It was a call to channel anger for good trouble: registering people to vote, getting involved in local politics, making change. I did see a lot of anger and that anger was justified: a man was shot in the back 7 times and there has been no accountability for that. I saw the burned out garbage trucks and buildings. I know the city descended into violence again later that night. It got violent last night, leaving 2 people dead. I just don't see violence as a way forward. The rage and the frustration are real, but I believe channeling those emotions into making change is a far better tactic.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by WestwayKid »

Word on the street (and this needs to be confirmed) is that the shootings that left 2 dead in Kenosha last night were committed by armed white people who had come to Kenosha to "protect" property. I know they were there because they were proudly posting photos on social media. If so, I want to see murder charges brought down.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by revbob »

WestwayKid wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 10:22am
Word on the street (and this needs to be confirmed) is that the shootings that left 2 dead in Kenosha last night were committed by armed white people who had come to Kenosha to "protect" property. I know they were there because they were proudly posting photos on social media. If so, I want to see murder charges brought down.
Well shit those Jortsville nutjobs were hailed as heroes the other night during the Republican Party's quadrennial Nuremberg rally. Those brave people protected their house from unarmed peaceful citizens walking down the street.

There have been plenty of right wing provocateurs involved in many of these protests no doubt some "very fine people ".

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Marky Dread »

WestwayKid wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 9:46am
Marky Dread wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:49am
Silent Majority wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:20am
Marky Dread wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 3:01pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 2:23pm


I've witnessed a riot but I have not had my ass kicked by the cops. My black friends have had their ass kicked by cops... endlessly and exhaustively. To their great credit they have tried every single avenue of peaceful protest and they still live in fear in this country. I have never seen a bully changes through reasonable discussion. They (police and their backers) must be made afraid and unsafe where ever they go. In other words, racists and their armed goon army should be made to feel the way they make others feel.

Look, I understand the perspective of violence as a last resort. I am just saying it is time for some last resorts. I'm 45 years old and have seem the police and surveillance state grow stronger and crueler. In my opinion that will not change until these people face consequences.

I'm not playing tough guy or promoting senseless violence. That said, you have to punch back. I'd love to hear about some magically peaceful solution but I have been waiting along time.
I there ever was a simple answer then we would of had it by now. You can not stamp out racism just like you can't stamp out hatred. Am I saying sit down and give up, no never but you will achieve nothing with violence. It has never solved a single thing except to heap more misery on those that have already endured enough. Those in power want you to get angry they want you to fight. So they can have an excuse to keep you down. They want you to know they think you are stupid and violence just plays directly into their hands. You are all stupid morons who know no better than to riot or to go looting. It's the biggest con trick on the masses ever. People are falling for it time and time again.
I don't necessarily agree with Mark's position on this, but I absolutely read the sentence that pushed the discussion into an argument as the opinion of the oppressor, not his own.
Thank you. My intention in this discussion was not to those people who are suffering day by day. My view is not that I consider them morons. But that is how they are being perceived to be in the hands of those who make the rules and hold the positions of power.

People can decide and act for themselves how they see fit. I respected Westway Kid who I was having the original conversation with for showing solidarity and protesting in a peaceful fashion.

Violence is certain to occur in these situations and with emotions running so high its totally understandable. But burning down the neighbourhoods you are living in is not the answer. Violence only adds to the fear factor of the already vulnerable people who live in those neighbourhoods. All I'm saying is rise above and find another solution. There's got to be a better way.
I completely agree. I've seen the rage firsthand and while I can never know what 400 years of oppression feels like, I've been encouraged by many local activists over the past few months. They are actively working to build a community and to unite people of all colors behind a common cause. The protest on Monday was a great example. It was well organized. It was peaceful. It was about coming together and it was anti-violence. It was a call to channel anger for good trouble: registering people to vote, getting involved in local politics, making change. I did see a lot of anger and that anger was justified: a man was shot in the back 7 times and there has been no accountability for that. I saw the burned out garbage trucks and buildings. I know the city descended into violence again later that night. It got violent last night, leaving 2 people dead. I just don't see violence as a way forward. The rage and the frustration are real, but I believe channeling those emotions into making change is a far better tactic.
This is exactly how I feel. Well articulated mate.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Marky Dread »

revbob wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 10:33am
WestwayKid wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 10:22am
Word on the street (and this needs to be confirmed) is that the shootings that left 2 dead in Kenosha last night were committed by armed white people who had come to Kenosha to "protect" property. I know they were there because they were proudly posting photos on social media. If so, I want to see murder charges brought down.
Well shit those Jortsville nutjobs were hailed as heroes the other night during the Republican Party's quadrennial Nuremberg rally. Those brave people protected their house from unarmed peaceful citizens walking down the street.

There have been plenty of right wing provocateurs involved in many of these protests no doubt some "very fine people ".
This stuff is complete madness.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by WestwayKid »

Marky Dread wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 10:44am
revbob wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 10:33am
WestwayKid wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 10:22am
Word on the street (and this needs to be confirmed) is that the shootings that left 2 dead in Kenosha last night were committed by armed white people who had come to Kenosha to "protect" property. I know they were there because they were proudly posting photos on social media. If so, I want to see murder charges brought down.
Well shit those Jortsville nutjobs were hailed as heroes the other night during the Republican Party's quadrennial Nuremberg rally. Those brave people protected their house from unarmed peaceful citizens walking down the street.

There have been plenty of right wing provocateurs involved in many of these protests no doubt some "very fine people ".
This stuff is complete madness.
They have apparently identified the shooter. He is (surprise, surprise) a far right extremist. There is footage of him outside last night with an automatic rifle. There is also footage from earlier in the night where some Kenosha cops tell him and his friends that they appreciate them being out there and then offer them bottled water. It really is complete madness. I'm hoping for the best, but I feel like things are really going to erupt tonight. I feel it's only a matter of time before a cop gets taken out.
"Geoff who takes kids camping is dead all the boys except Rusty are missing." - revbob
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by WestwayKid »

Shooter is 17 years old.
"Geoff who takes kids camping is dead all the boys except Rusty are missing." - revbob
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by BostonBeaneater »

Marky Dread wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 3:48am
BostonBeaneater wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 10:52pm
Marky Dread wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 9:14pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 8:33pm
Marky Dread wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 3:01pm


I there ever was a simple answer then we would of had it by now. You can not stamp out racism just like you can't stamp out hatred. Am I saying sit down and give up, no never but you will achieve nothing with violence. It has never solved a single thing except to heap more misery on those that have already endured enough. Those in power want you to get angry they want you to fight. So they can have an excuse to keep you down. They want you to know they think you are stupid and violence just plays directly into their hands. You are all stupid morons who know no better than to riot or to go looting. It's the biggest con trick on the masses ever. People are falling for it time and time again.
Alright then, If we're throwing insults around then you're a great big pussy who might as well just go lick some cops boots. I tried to illustrate a point and you have to go wet your pants over it. Peaceful protest, in my view and from what I have seen, doesn't work very often.
Oh boy did you read that wrong. I didnt insult anybody. That highlighted part is not my opinion of people but of those that are in power. Never mind you've lowered the conversation now.

As for me being a "great big pussy" seriously you wouldn't last 5 seconds with me. Yep you've illustrated things perfectly.
Please, grow up. You started slinging the insults around. You can believe whatever you want. I just re-read your words and I think you're an asshole. You sound like a cop.
Think what you like I insulted no one. You're the only one here who insulted anybody.

So I sound like a cop? You've clearly lost the plot.

You took my comment out of context. It clearly says "Those in power". Then you called me a "pussy" "asshole" "sound like a cop".

You are the one who wants to act with "violence" funny coming from a guy who likes to post pictures of himself at the shooting range.

I'm done with you.
I clearly see above that you called me a moron hence my reaction. Then I pissed you off with my stand on violence which was so offensive you threatened violence. So, whatever. I'm done with you too.

Protect peacefully all you want, the goons are going to shoot you anyway.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Heston »

Silent Majority wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:20am
Marky Dread wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 3:01pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 2:23pm
Marky Dread wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 1:55pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 1:43pm


When a population is hunted and murdered in the streets, yes to violence. Those who favor a police state only know that language. They must be made beaten and made afraid.
It's not a population. A population is everybody.

Stand up and protest make your voices heard. The common man is the bus driver, the train driver, the nurse, the refuge collector. If one person gets hurt or killed in these protests it's one too many. Violence is understandable but never the answer. Your welcome to your point of view but you are wrong.

Ever been in a riot? Ever had the shit kicked out of you for something you believed strongly in? Broken nose? Stabbed? Seen your friend die? If not come back and tell when you have and then tell me violence is the answer.
I've witnessed a riot but I have not had my ass kicked by the cops. My black friends have had their ass kicked by cops... endlessly and exhaustively. To their great credit they have tried every single avenue of peaceful protest and they still live in fear in this country. I have never seen a bully changes through reasonable discussion. They (police and their backers) must be made afraid and unsafe where ever they go. In other words, racists and their armed goon army should be made to feel the way they make others feel.

Look, I understand the perspective of violence as a last resort. I am just saying it is time for some last resorts. I'm 45 years old and have seem the police and surveillance state grow stronger and crueler. In my opinion that will not change until these people face consequences.

I'm not playing tough guy or promoting senseless violence. That said, you have to punch back. I'd love to hear about some magically peaceful solution but I have been waiting along time.
I there ever was a simple answer then we would of had it by now. You can not stamp out racism just like you can't stamp out hatred. Am I saying sit down and give up, no never but you will achieve nothing with violence. It has never solved a single thing except to heap more misery on those that have already endured enough. Those in power want you to get angry they want you to fight. So they can have an excuse to keep you down. They want you to know they think you are stupid and violence just plays directly into their hands. You are all stupid morons who know no better than to riot or to go looting. It's the biggest con trick on the masses ever. People are falling for it time and time again.
I don't necessarily agree with Mark's position on this, but I absolutely read the sentence that pushed the discussion into an argument as the opinion of the oppressor, not his own.
Absolutely.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Marky Dread »

BostonBeaneater wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 12:09pm
Marky Dread wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 3:48am
BostonBeaneater wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 10:52pm
Marky Dread wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 9:14pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 8:33pm


Alright then, If we're throwing insults around then you're a great big pussy who might as well just go lick some cops boots. I tried to illustrate a point and you have to go wet your pants over it. Peaceful protest, in my view and from what I have seen, doesn't work very often.
Oh boy did you read that wrong. I didnt insult anybody. That highlighted part is not my opinion of people but of those that are in power. Never mind you've lowered the conversation now.

As for me being a "great big pussy" seriously you wouldn't last 5 seconds with me. Yep you've illustrated things perfectly.
Please, grow up. You started slinging the insults around. You can believe whatever you want. I just re-read your words and I think you're an asshole. You sound like a cop.
Think what you like I insulted no one. You're the only one here who insulted anybody.

So I sound like a cop? You've clearly lost the plot.

You took my comment out of context. It clearly says "Those in power". Then you called me a "pussy" "asshole" "sound like a cop".

You are the one who wants to act with "violence" funny coming from a guy who likes to post pictures of himself at the shooting range.

I'm done with you.
I clearly see above that you called me a moron hence my reaction. Then I pissed you off with my stand on violence which was so offensive you threatened violence. So, whatever. I'm done with you too.

Protect peacefully all you want, the goons are going to shoot you anyway.

You're the only one reading it that way. Never mind. Stay safe.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by matedog »

WestwayKid wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 11:30am
Shooter is 17 years old.
Looks like they arrested him.

I just don't understand how someone can watch that video and not think we need to disarm everyone.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by WestwayKid »

matedog wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 2:04pm
WestwayKid wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 11:30am
Shooter is 17 years old.
Looks like they arrested him.

I just don't understand how someone can watch that video and not think we need to disarm everyone.
Yes, he thankfully was arrested and charged with 2 counts of 1st degree murder.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Flex »

I have a bunch of mixed feelings on the efficacy of violence (and how we even define "violence"), as well as gun control (and I'm sure a search on these forums would reveal shifting, ping-ponging views from me over the years). I generally don't feel qualified to say with authority what's right or wrong from moral, strategic or tactical perspectives and my position as a white, male middle class person largely disqualifies whatever I'd have to say anyways other than: I support the views, even when they're contradictory, of movements of liberation and my goal is not to undermine shit.

Except, I will say it's deeply fucked up that we categorize the destruction of property as "violence" as if it was a person being attacked. Burning down a thousand Targets and smashing a thousand Starbucks windows doesn't begin to compare to the cops (or some psycho militia nut) murdering a single person. That I'm pretty confident about.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by JennyB »

Flex wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 2:28pm
I have a bunch of mixed feelings on the efficacy of violence (and how we even define "violence"), as well as gun control (and I'm sure a search on these forums would reveal shifting, ping-ponging views from me over the years). I generally don't feel qualified to say with authority what's right or wrong from moral, strategic or tactical perspectives and my position as a white, male middle class person largely disqualifies whatever I'd have to say anyways other than: I support the views, even when they're contradictory, of movements of liberation and my goal is not to undermine shit.

Except, I will say it's deeply fucked up that we categorize the destruction of property as "violence" as if it was a person being attacked. Burning down a thousand Targets and smashing a thousand Starbucks windows doesn't begin to compare to the cops (or some psycho militia nut) murdering a single person. That I'm pretty confident about.
I totally agree with that. Where I have a problem is when performative rose twitter types start burning down small businesses owned by BIPOC and immigrants.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Spiff »

Silent Majority wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:20am
Marky Dread wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 3:01pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 2:23pm
Marky Dread wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 1:55pm
BostonBeaneater wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 1:43pm


When a population is hunted and murdered in the streets, yes to violence. Those who favor a police state only know that language. They must be made beaten and made afraid.
It's not a population. A population is everybody.

Stand up and protest make your voices heard. The common man is the bus driver, the train driver, the nurse, the refuge collector. If one person gets hurt or killed in these protests it's one too many. Violence is understandable but never the answer. Your welcome to your point of view but you are wrong.

Ever been in a riot? Ever had the shit kicked out of you for something you believed strongly in? Broken nose? Stabbed? Seen your friend die? If not come back and tell when you have and then tell me violence is the answer.
I've witnessed a riot but I have not had my ass kicked by the cops. My black friends have had their ass kicked by cops... endlessly and exhaustively. To their great credit they have tried every single avenue of peaceful protest and they still live in fear in this country. I have never seen a bully changes through reasonable discussion. They (police and their backers) must be made afraid and unsafe where ever they go. In other words, racists and their armed goon army should be made to feel the way they make others feel.

Look, I understand the perspective of violence as a last resort. I am just saying it is time for some last resorts. I'm 45 years old and have seem the police and surveillance state grow stronger and crueler. In my opinion that will not change until these people face consequences.

I'm not playing tough guy or promoting senseless violence. That said, you have to punch back. I'd love to hear about some magically peaceful solution but I have been waiting along time.
I there ever was a simple answer then we would of had it by now. You can not stamp out racism just like you can't stamp out hatred. Am I saying sit down and give up, no never but you will achieve nothing with violence. It has never solved a single thing except to heap more misery on those that have already endured enough. Those in power want you to get angry they want you to fight. So they can have an excuse to keep you down. They want you to know they think you are stupid and violence just plays directly into their hands. You are all stupid morons who know no better than to riot or to go looting. It's the biggest con trick on the masses ever. People are falling for it time and time again.
I don't necessarily agree with Mark's position on this, but I absolutely read the sentence that pushed the discussion into an argument as the opinion of the oppressor, not his own.
Agreed. BBE misread Marky Dread's words.
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