No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

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Dr. Medulla
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

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Olaf wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 7:22am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 7:05am
https://www.nme.com/news/music/big-thie ... ry-2913270

Can somebody explain this to me (the offending picture is at the end of their statement, on the sleeve of the right arm). I flat-out am not seeing insensitivity or white supremacy at work in this drawing. Prison reform is vital, of course, ending dehumanization and sincerely pursuing rehabilitation and restitution, but this confession comes off as, at best, clumsy wokeness and, at worst, a manufactured thing, calling themselves out to raise their profile.
I think what they mean is using the cliche of a "coloured" person in prison kinda demonstrates the lack of awareness that normalizes white supremacy. But yeah, seems a bit of a stretch.
That's a massive stretch when purple should be read as BIPOC. But your explanation makes some sense.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 8:09am
Olaf wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 7:22am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 7:05am
https://www.nme.com/news/music/big-thie ... ry-2913270

Can somebody explain this to me (the offending picture is at the end of their statement, on the sleeve of the right arm). I flat-out am not seeing insensitivity or white supremacy at work in this drawing. Prison reform is vital, of course, ending dehumanization and sincerely pursuing rehabilitation and restitution, but this confession comes off as, at best, clumsy wokeness and, at worst, a manufactured thing, calling themselves out to raise their profile.
I think what they mean is using the cliche of a "coloured" person in prison kinda demonstrates the lack of awareness that normalizes white supremacy. But yeah, seems a bit of a stretch.
That's a massive stretch when purple should be read as BIPOC. But your explanation makes some sense.
Gets them noticed I guess. But seriously are we too look for racism in everything.

I think this artist shows the lightbulb in a poor light.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

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Marky Dread wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 8:42am
But seriously are we too look for racism in everything.
I don't think it's a bad thing to seek to be more self-aware of how we unconsciously reproduce various forms of bigotry. There's plenty of stuff that I've thought and said in the past that I now regard as racist—not of the blatantly hateful sort, but insensitive or hurtful—and that if I'd been more demanding and thoughtful I would have realized it at the time. It doesn't mean we're going to find hidden ugliness in everything we say and do—e.g., in the case of this band, I'm not really seeing it—but having these conversations with ourselves and others seems a good thing.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 9:10am
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 8:42am
But seriously are we too look for racism in everything.
I don't think it's a bad thing to seek to be more self-aware of how we unconsciously reproduce various forms of bigotry. There's plenty of stuff that I've thought and said in the past that I now regard as racist—not of the blatantly hateful sort, but insensitive or hurtful—and that if I'd been more demanding and thoughtful I would have realized it at the time. It doesn't mean we're going to find hidden ugliness in everything we say and do—e.g., in the case of this band, I'm not really seeing it—but having these conversations with ourselves and others seems a good thing.
There's enough racism in this ugly world. It needs to be tackled head on. I'm all up for that fight 100%.

But this seems to be taking stuff to the extreme and then people will be demanding stuff to be examined and censored then removed altogether. If it's not done with willful hate and thoughtlessness then why go looking for it.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Marky Dread wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 10:17am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 9:10am
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 8:42am
But seriously are we too look for racism in everything.
I don't think it's a bad thing to seek to be more self-aware of how we unconsciously reproduce various forms of bigotry. There's plenty of stuff that I've thought and said in the past that I now regard as racist—not of the blatantly hateful sort, but insensitive or hurtful—and that if I'd been more demanding and thoughtful I would have realized it at the time. It doesn't mean we're going to find hidden ugliness in everything we say and do—e.g., in the case of this band, I'm not really seeing it—but having these conversations with ourselves and others seems a good thing.
There's enough racism in this ugly world. It needs to be tackled head on. I'm all up for that fight 100%.

But this seems to be taking stuff to the extreme and then people will be demanding stuff to be examined and censored then removed altogether. If it's not done with willful hate and thoughtlessness then why go looking for it.
Last fall on campus here, a long overdue conversation about race began after a prof used a racial slur in the classroom and was called out by students. This led to a number of professors asserting their right to use any and all language they see fit, and began, in earnest, purposefully using racial slurs in the (virtual) classroom. They say it's about the principle of free speech, others (including me) say it's about putting students in their place for daring to criticize professors, esp. students of colour. A number of other academics formed an anti-racism group (which I later joined) to combat racism on campus, including in the classroom. This involves re-thinking how we teach.

One of the things that's come up is that when we're challenged on being racist (or sexist or homophobic etc etc), we often justify our words or void the accusation by citing our benign intent. It was just a joke, that's not what I meant, you're being too sensitive. In other words, the accuser's position is rejected, which has the effect of reinforcing their sense of injury. This is something I think we all can appreciate from times when someone has said something hurtful to us. Saying it's just a joke or get over it tends to make us feel worse—that fucker isn't acknowledging that they hurt me.

So, one of the things I've learned is that when we think about racism (sexism, etc) isn't about our intent but about its effect. If someone says that what you've done or said is insensitive or hurtful, instead of getting defensive and responding with innocence of intent, listen to them and figure out how to repair the harm. Our innocent intent is something we hope that they'll take into account when judging us, especially if we're friends, but that's up to them, not us. But, importantly, by listening to them as to why our words or actions are hurtful, we can hopefully learn whether some of our unconscious actions are problematic and inadvertently marginalize others. Sticking to our intent, it's a lot harder to appreciate our actions and to be better.

Please don't read this as me calling you out in any way—you have nothing to prove to me about your heart and conscience, and you've put in your time fighting out-and-out Nazis—only to explain why I think we need to be more conscious of what we're doing and saying, and how to be better people.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 12:07pm
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 10:17am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 9:10am
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 8:42am
But seriously are we too look for racism in everything.
I don't think it's a bad thing to seek to be more self-aware of how we unconsciously reproduce various forms of bigotry. There's plenty of stuff that I've thought and said in the past that I now regard as racist—not of the blatantly hateful sort, but insensitive or hurtful—and that if I'd been more demanding and thoughtful I would have realized it at the time. It doesn't mean we're going to find hidden ugliness in everything we say and do—e.g., in the case of this band, I'm not really seeing it—but having these conversations with ourselves and others seems a good thing.
There's enough racism in this ugly world. It needs to be tackled head on. I'm all up for that fight 100%.

But this seems to be taking stuff to the extreme and then people will be demanding stuff to be examined and censored then removed altogether. If it's not done with willful hate and thoughtlessness then why go looking for it.
Last fall on campus here, a long overdue conversation about race began after a prof used a racial slur in the classroom and was called out by students. This led to a number of professors asserting their right to use any and all language they see fit, and began, in earnest, purposefully using racial slurs in the (virtual) classroom. They say it's about the principle of free speech, others (including me) say it's about putting students in their place for daring to criticize professors, esp. students of colour. A number of other academics formed an anti-racism group (which I later joined) to combat racism on campus, including in the classroom. This involves re-thinking how we teach.

One of the things that's come up is that when we're challenged on being racist (or sexist or homophobic etc etc), we often justify our words or void the accusation by citing our benign intent. It was just a joke, that's not what I meant, you're being too sensitive. In other words, the accuser's position is rejected, which has the effect of reinforcing their sense of injury. This is something I think we all can appreciate from times when someone has said something hurtful to us. Saying it's just a joke or get over it tends to make us feel worse—that fucker isn't acknowledging that they hurt me.

So, one of the things I've learned is that when we think about racism (sexism, etc) isn't about our intent but about its effect. If someone says that what you've done or said is insensitive or hurtful, instead of getting defensive and responding with innocence of intent, listen to them and figure out how to repair the harm. Our innocent intent is something we hope that they'll take into account when judging us, especially if we're friends, but that's up to them, not us. But, importantly, by listening to them as to why our words or actions are hurtful, we can hopefully learn whether some of our unconscious actions are problematic and inadvertently marginalize others. Sticking to our intent, it's a lot harder to appreciate our actions and to be better.

Please don't read this as me calling you out in any way—you have nothing to prove to me about your heart and conscience, and you've put in your time fighting out-and-out Nazis—only to explain why I think we need to be more conscious of what we're doing and saying, and how to be better people.
I agree totally that it is very important to have a conscious attitude towards racism. Many things go by with a very thin acceptance of what is or isn't okay. In this instance I feel the racism that is involved is almost being forced to be noticed. Like hey look at us we're so on top of this please notice what we're doing.

I've got a scab on my arm and if I pick at it, it will eventually weep. Leave it alone and hopefully it will heal. It will leave a lasting scar and that will be a reminder forever. It won't go away but keep on digging at it and see what happens.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

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Marky Dread wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 12:25pm
I agree totally that it is very important to have a conscious attitude towards racism. Many things go by with a very thin acceptance of what is or isn't okay. In this instance I feel the racism that is involved is almost being forced to be noticed. Like hey look at us we're so on top of this please notice what we're doing.
Yup, which is mostly why I posted the original story (but also to see if someone could make a credible argument for what I might have been missing).
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 12:28pm
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 12:25pm
I agree totally that it is very important to have a conscious attitude towards racism. Many things go by with a very thin acceptance of what is or isn't okay. In this instance I feel the racism that is involved is almost being forced to be noticed. Like hey look at us we're so on top of this please notice what we're doing.
Yup, which is mostly why I posted the original story (but also to see if someone could make a credible argument for what I might have been missing).
No way you've missed anything. No credible argument to be had.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by gkbill »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 12:07pm
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 10:17am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 9:10am
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 8:42am
But seriously are we too look for racism in everything.
I don't think it's a bad thing to seek to be more self-aware of how we unconsciously reproduce various forms of bigotry. There's plenty of stuff that I've thought and said in the past that I now regard as racist—not of the blatantly hateful sort, but insensitive or hurtful—and that if I'd been more demanding and thoughtful I would have realized it at the time. It doesn't mean we're going to find hidden ugliness in everything we say and do—e.g., in the case of this band, I'm not really seeing it—but having these conversations with ourselves and others seems a good thing.
There's enough racism in this ugly world. It needs to be tackled head on. I'm all up for that fight 100%.

But this seems to be taking stuff to the extreme and then people will be demanding stuff to be examined and censored then removed altogether. If it's not done with willful hate and thoughtlessness then why go looking for it.
Last fall on campus here, a long overdue conversation about race began after a prof used a racial slur in the classroom and was called out by students. This led to a number of professors asserting their right to use any and all language they see fit, and began, in earnest, purposefully using racial slurs in the (virtual) classroom. They say it's about the principle of free speech, others (including me) say it's about putting students in their place for daring to criticize professors, esp. students of colour. A number of other academics formed an anti-racism group (which I later joined) to combat racism on campus, including in the classroom. This involves re-thinking how we teach.

One of the things that's come up is that when we're challenged on being racist (or sexist or homophobic etc etc), we often justify our words or void the accusation by citing our benign intent. It was just a joke, that's not what I meant, you're being too sensitive. In other words, the accuser's position is rejected, which has the effect of reinforcing their sense of injury. This is something I think we all can appreciate from times when someone has said something hurtful to us. Saying it's just a joke or get over it tends to make us feel worse—that fucker isn't acknowledging that they hurt me.

So, one of the things I've learned is that when we think about racism (sexism, etc) isn't about our intent but about its effect. If someone says that what you've done or said is insensitive or hurtful, instead of getting defensive and responding with innocence of intent, listen to them and figure out how to repair the harm. Our innocent intent is something we hope that they'll take into account when judging us, especially if we're friends, but that's up to them, not us. But, importantly, by listening to them as to why our words or actions are hurtful, we can hopefully learn whether some of our unconscious actions are problematic and inadvertently marginalize others. Sticking to our intent, it's a lot harder to appreciate our actions and to be better.

Please don't read this as me calling you out in any way—you have nothing to prove to me about your heart and conscience, and you've put in your time fighting out-and-out Nazis—only to explain why I think we need to be more conscious of what we're doing and saying, and how to be better people.
Hello,

I would challenge the faculty who used the slurs by asking "Do you have the vocabulary to find a different word that will not upset or hurt your students? If so, why not use that different word?". Some might say they need to use a slur to convey a certain meaning but I struggle to imagine such a context in an academic setting.

To an extent, the words are the superficial layer. Words are the expressions of thoughts. Occasionally, someone with good thoughts will use inappropriate or hurtful words. I would hope my behaviors demonstrate the acceptance of all races and ethnicities. I can use an expression such as, when trying to identify a student to another student, "You know, the light-skinned black guy". Some white faculty would never use such an identifier. I have come to think (hope) my actions and words have demonstrated my rejection of racist tendencies. However, I don't use (or allow, although I've never had to confront a white student about it) the N-word. That word has potentially toxicity when used in the wrong settings by the wrong person. I don't have the right due to my lack of experience as a black person to use that word.

If you're not sure about using a term, ask the person/people if it's okay. My sister hadn't been around many black people and said something to my wife that wasn't fitting. I told my sister, "Just ask if it's okay to say that. People appreciate that. You'll learn something as well." If your intent is honest, innocent, you demonstrate a sincere desire to help your students learn, and desire to learn more yourself, people appreciate that.

I'm sorry to go on so long but I've really learned a lot being married to someone who has gone through apartheid as well as gaining employment in the deep US South. Also, it's what we just addressed in my Sport and Exercise Psychology class. Doc, you may want to have faculty take this test (http://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit) for a number of potential prejudices.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

gkbill wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 1:02pm
Hello,

I would challenge the faculty who used the slurs by asking "Do you have the vocabulary to find a different word that will not upset or hurt your students? If so, why not use that different word?". Some might say they need to use a slur to convey a certain meaning but I struggle to imagine such a context in an academic setting.

To an extent, the words are the superficial layer. Words are the expressions of thoughts. Occasionally, someone with good thoughts will use inappropriate or hurtful words. I would hope my behaviors demonstrate the acceptance of all races and ethnicities. I can use an expression such as, when trying to identify a student to another student, "You know, the light-skinned black guy". Some white faculty would never use such an identifier. I have come to think (hope) my actions and words have demonstrated my rejection of racist tendencies. However, I don't use (or allow, although I've never had to confront a white student about it) the N-word. That word has potentially toxicity when used in the wrong settings by the wrong person. I don't have the right due to my lack of experience as a black person to use that word.

If you're not sure about using a term, ask the person/people if it's okay. My sister hadn't been around many black people and said something to my wife that wasn't fitting. I told my sister, "Just ask if it's okay to say that. People appreciate that. You'll learn something as well." If your intent is honest, innocent, you demonstrate a sincere desire to help your students learn, and desire to learn more yourself, people appreciate that.

I'm sorry to go on so long but I've really learned a lot being married to someone who has gone through apartheid as well as gaining employment in the deep US South. Also, it's what we just addressed in my Sport and Exercise Psychology class. Doc, you may want to have faculty take this test (http://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit) for a number of potential prejudices.
There's additional shit going on with all this on my campus, but I will say that most of those on the "free speech" side are being disingenuous and that this is related to other status issues. They are not interested in conversation at all and have responded with aggressive defensiveness. (Notably, these free speech advocates' response to the formation of the anti-racism group and issuing a mission statement was to demand it be taken down. Seriously.) At this point, people are digging in or putting their heads in the ground and hoping it will blow over. To its credit, administration is trying to do the right thing in all this, tho it hasn't been easy with so many faculty yelling about "muh rights!" I'm just a sessional instructor, so I have zero sway over others aside from inside my own classroom. Indeed, that's been a slightly frustrating part of the anti-racism group. Some of us want to talk pedagogy, whereas others are concerned about department/university politics. It's all related, but to those of us who aren't tenured or tenure track, that stuff is too remote for us.

Regarding the use of racial slurs in the classroom, I've explained that I've taken or taught upteen classes on US history, never shying away from the question of race, and not once have slurs been used by my profs or me. We don't need to use those words to get across ideas. When I do my Rock Against Racism lecture, with Clapton's vile drunken rant, I elide certain passages and tell students that if they really want to read the whole thing, it's easily found online. Nothing is gained by repeating the language that can be hurtful and much can be lost. A friend of mine has fretted about how to talk about racism in his lectures and whether this means we have to shelve it. I've told him that most students do care about this and them standing up and rejecting slurs is not them saying we can't talk about race. They want us to be better, so if we're sincere about being good teachers, we need to take that as a challenge. It's humbling to be told by students that we're insensitive or what have you—thankfully for my ego that hasn't happened to me—but it's better than unintentionally being hurtful.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

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Seems to me to be an appropriate use for it.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Ottawa cops casually talking about white genocide. Nah, we got no racism problem here.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Apr 2021, 12:38pm
Ottawa cops casually talking about white genocide. Nah, we got no racism problem here.
You seem to have kinder, gentler racist cops. Not to defend them in any way but Im pretty sure most US white cops would have dropped more than a few racial epithets.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

revbob wrote:
07 Apr 2021, 4:45pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Apr 2021, 12:38pm
Ottawa cops casually talking about white genocide. Nah, we got no racism problem here.
You seem to have kinder, gentler racist cops. Not to defend them in any way but Im pretty sure most US white cops would have dropped more than a few racial epithets.
Nah, our guys are happy to kill non-whites whenever the opportunity presents itself. Spend a little time on paid leave with internal affairs clears them and all is well again.
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