I thought the problem was that too many people (correctly) believe defund the police means get rid of them. How is that too vague?
It's ambiguous because it invites others to seize it and say defund the police budget in areas they shouldn't handle (e.g., mental health crises). When the word choice describes a process, it invites competing ideas of the ends. "Ban the Bomb" or "Restrict Resources for Nuclear Weapons"?
Again, the proof seems to be I the pudding: America, correctly imho, believe defund the police means "get rid of the police." Nobody seems that confused. They just hate the idea of getting rid of the police!
Look, I don't even really disagree that the slogan could be better for the reasons you say I just don't think its massive unpopularity is because it's too vague. I think most people pretty much get it! And hate what it means! That's a huge hurdle that the movement needs to overcome and it worries me that the focus is just fiddling around with the slogan. Police abolitionism has a lot bigger hills to climb than just picking abolish vs defund for the t-shirts.
I think our difference is my focus on people who fall somewhere on the change side (my apologies for losing sight of this). The branding of the abolish movement is suitably vague that it invites reformists to claim the slogan for themselves and muddy the waters and make the whole thing seem ill-conceived.
Okay, got it. Yeah, i don't think we're in much disagreement then. I was actually about to post that i suspect that there's several different critiques about the slogan at play in this thread and I (at least) am probably crossing wires on the critiques in the replies.
All the critiques suggest problems with the slogan, but they have fairly divergent implications for the underlying message and what problems the movement faces, imho.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
I've always confessed to be a kind of closet Catholic in my belief that you need to be able to look at yourself in the mirror, that you can't carry around your misdeeds for long without confessing because it'll consume you from within. And, of course, not everyone is wired like me (in good ways and not), but I read things like this and wonder, how does someone do something like that and still be able to look at themselves in the mirror without complete revulsion. Like, how do you not conclude that you're a terrible human being? How much of your life is spent rationalizing that you're not just horrible?
"Ain't no party like an S Club party!'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
I've always confessed to be a kind of closet Catholic in my belief that you need to be able to look at yourself in the mirror, that you can't carry around your misdeeds for long without confessing because it'll consume you from within. And, of course, not everyone is wired like me (in good ways and not), but I read things like this and wonder, how does someone do something like that and still be able to look at themselves in the mirror without complete revulsion. Like, how do you not conclude that you're a terrible human being? How much of your life is spent rationalizing that you're not just horrible?
Catholicism taught me that power is a haunting poison that is excellent at self-justification.
I've always confessed to be a kind of closet Catholic in my belief that you need to be able to look at yourself in the mirror, that you can't carry around your misdeeds for long without confessing because it'll consume you from within. And, of course, not everyone is wired like me (in good ways and not), but I read things like this and wonder, how does someone do something like that and still be able to look at themselves in the mirror without complete revulsion. Like, how do you not conclude that you're a terrible human being? How much of your life is spent rationalizing that you're not just horrible?
Catholicism taught me that power is a haunting poison that is excellent at self-justification.
And that’s the counter Catholicism as is actually practiced, which is what keeps me far away from organized religion. Just on a very human level, I’ve never been able to understand how priests and nuns at residential schools could so cruelly abuse kids. Not just as human beings dehumanizing the young like that, but their supposed calling is drawn from a religion that instructs the defence and elevation of the weak. Like, going completely contrary to your professed ideals, you fucking calling. Again, how do you look in the mirror everyday and not see a monster? I’m quite serious here, and don’t want to give way to easy and cynical answers. How do these people behave in ways that run totally opposite to what their creed instructs? That’s the kind of stuff that terrifies and confuses me and, in the end, I’m not sure I actually want to know how these people don’t jump out of a tall window when they consider their reflection.
"Ain't no party like an S Club party!'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
This is pretty insanely horrible, a schizophrenic man being held in a Georgia county jail died after being eaten alive by insects and bed bugs, prison officials observed his deterioration and did nothing: https://www.insider.com/man-died-eaten- ... ges-2023-4
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead