Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑
18 Jul 2020, 11:57am
Did it seem like I was suggesting that bigotry was an essential element of punk? Poorly expressed on my part, if so. More a case of punk rejection of conventional behaviours/attitudes lends itself to that. That is, that "I'm an equal opportunity offender" attitude that generates debasing comments even if there's no purposeful intent beyond being "rebellious."
Yeah, I was going off this:
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2020, 12:21pm
Man, for a bunch of punk fans, we all sure seem churchy.
Seemed to imply opposing anti-semitism was somehow unpunk (although obviously I knew it was tongue in cheek, but there still seemed to be a bit.of seriousness behind it).
I think that's a misreading of the achievement. There's nothing about it that says homosexuals *must* get married, in the same way that they were *prohibited* before. Eliminating an unfair restriction of personal choice seems a good thing.
Sure, and that's why I support marriage equality, but I do think the functional effect (as correctly predicted by long-game cultural conservatives like Sullivan) has been to marginalize the radical within the gay rights movement in favor of those most interested in bourgeoisie respectability politics. In hardly qualified to speak further for those voices, but the Against Equality: Queer Critiques of Gay Marriage book (among others) has more. Gene recommended that book around these parts years ago, iirc.
But don't most(?) of them know, at heart, that it's a transgression? They know that the general culture has moved so that using sexist and racist slurs is less unconscious and more an act of bravado or rebellion against the PC police, etc. It's why so many, when caught, immediately back down and offer fake apologies. They know that they've committed a secular sin in a way that decades earlier wouldn't have caused offense.
I guess I just think a lot of the anti-PC bravado is fake because fake persecution is part of the right wing grift. I do agree that liberal norms require mannered expression, but I think theres not much actual teeth behind the consequences of violating the normal. That makes it, as rebellion goes, pretty safe and feckless. But yeah, I don't disagree with you.
At this point, I'm not sure how much we're disagreeing here, and if we are it's because I didn't express myself as well as I could have. My point is that the same virtue of punk that encourages a sense of liberation from conventionality and of action can and has led to stupid behaviour when it's not disciplined with a humanist perspective and critical mind. Punk necessarily means the former, but the latter is something that people have to work harder for. That's the poison pill embedded within punk.
Yeah, we're not really disagreeing. A lot of people (like Marky!) have done a lot to make embracing the humanist perspective within punk the cultural norm in the scene. But yeah, I mean you've always gotta be making sure you're keeping the Nazis out of the scene since it can be attractive to them.