The Dictator observations thread.

Politics and other such topical creams.
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

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Ive enjoyed ignoring football these past several years.

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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

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Gary Glitter released from prison after serving half his sentence: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/f ... ce-reports

I’m far from a lock-em-up-and-throw-away-the-key person, but that’s an astonishingly light sentence given the crimes.
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2023, 11:30am
Gary Glitter released from prison after serving half his sentence: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/f ... ce-reports

I’m far from a lock-em-up-and-throw-away-the-key person, but that’s an astonishingly light sentence given the crimes.
What's the advantage of letting him out?

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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

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revbob wrote:
03 Feb 2023, 1:38pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2023, 11:30am
Gary Glitter released from prison after serving half his sentence: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/f ... ce-reports

I’m far from a lock-em-up-and-throw-away-the-key person, but that’s an astonishingly light sentence given the crimes.
What's the advantage of letting him out?
A lack of remorse should normally preclude early release, you'd think.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by Flex »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2023, 4:31pm
revbob wrote:
03 Feb 2023, 1:38pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2023, 11:30am
Gary Glitter released from prison after serving half his sentence: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/f ... ce-reports

I’m far from a lock-em-up-and-throw-away-the-key person, but that’s an astonishingly light sentence given the crimes.
What's the advantage of letting him out?
A lack of remorse should normally preclude early release, you'd think.
There's an argument to be made that the only valid point of prison is to actually stop threats to society from endangering people by their being out and about. By almost any standard, keeping pedophiles locked up meets that baseline sense of purpose.

I can't remember he context, but I remember reading an article about pedophiles who know they can't act on their urges and the struggle they go through to get through each day. Honestly, imprisonment or death seems better than what they have to suffer through. I'm generally an anti-prison guy, but the Gary Glitters of the world are literally incurable and the greatest kindness we can bestow on them is making sure they can't act on their own incurable impulses.
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Flex wrote:
04 Feb 2023, 1:35am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2023, 4:31pm
revbob wrote:
03 Feb 2023, 1:38pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2023, 11:30am
Gary Glitter released from prison after serving half his sentence: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/f ... ce-reports

I’m far from a lock-em-up-and-throw-away-the-key person, but that’s an astonishingly light sentence given the crimes.
What's the advantage of letting him out?
A lack of remorse should normally preclude early release, you'd think.
There's an argument to be made that the only valid point of prison is to actually stop threats to society from endangering people by their being out and about. By almost any standard, keeping pedophiles locked up meets that baseline sense of purpose.

I can't remember he context, but I remember reading an article about pedophiles who know they can't act on their urges and the struggle they go through to get through each day. Honestly, imprisonment or death seems better than what they have to suffer through. I'm generally an anti-prison guy, but the Gary Glitters of the world are literally incurable and the greatest kindness we can bestow on them is making sure they can't act on their own incurable impulses.
If not prison, a psychiatric hospital, but the basis of liberal democracy is of autonomous and rational citizens who control their own fate (one can argue about whether that actually works, but that's the ideal). Those who cannot control their bodies in a way that does harm to others necessarily must forfeit their freedom.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by JennyB »

Flex wrote:
04 Feb 2023, 1:35am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2023, 4:31pm
revbob wrote:
03 Feb 2023, 1:38pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2023, 11:30am
Gary Glitter released from prison after serving half his sentence: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/f ... ce-reports

I’m far from a lock-em-up-and-throw-away-the-key person, but that’s an astonishingly light sentence given the crimes.
What's the advantage of letting him out?
A lack of remorse should normally preclude early release, you'd think.
There's an argument to be made that the only valid point of prison is to actually stop threats to society from endangering people by their being out and about. By almost any standard, keeping pedophiles locked up meets that baseline sense of purpose.

I can't remember he context, but I remember reading an article about pedophiles who know they can't act on their urges and the struggle they go through to get through each day. Honestly, imprisonment or death seems better than what they have to suffer through. I'm generally an anti-prison guy, but the Gary Glitters of the world are literally incurable and the greatest kindness we can bestow on them is making sure they can't act on their own incurable impulses.
So, we are dealing with a similar situation with a (now former) friend. This is someone who was at my wedding and at VH, Jr.'s bar mitzvah. He had two 13-year-old daughters and a 10-year-old son and has been married to his wife for 15 years.

I get a text from him a couple of months ago asking if I had time to talk. I told him that I was getting ready to leave for a conference in Chicago, but was everything OK? He said no. So I immediately thought he was going to say someone was sick or that he was getting a divorce or something.

I call him back and he tells me he has gotten himself into a bit of trouble. He has an internet porn addiction and it "resulted" in him trading pictures with someone underage. He asked if I could write a letter on his behalf for the judge, because he will be going to prison for at least five years. I said I could not do that - I worked in sexual abuse prevention for 11 years and as a social worker, I am a mandated reporter. At this time I kind of felt bad for him because he made it sound like the person in the picture was 17 and he was hoodwinked (which is bad enough). But, still.

Turns out, she was 11. And he actively solicited pictures of her. And he is still trying to claim this is due to an addiction. Which is absolute bullshit. Then I read the victim impact statement and he not only posed as another 11 year old girl, he used videos of other 11 year old victims to pose as another 11 year old girl. I won't get into the details of the things he made his victim do, but it was one of the most disturbing things I have ever read.

To complicate things even further, his mom is on the board of my agency. We had a board retreat a couple of months ago and she stood up in front of the group to tell this sob story about how her son has an addiction and it's not his fault and what kind of parents let their children on these websites anyway? I was livid. LIVID. I get that you are in total denial, but this was so inappropriate. She's resigning from the board, but that's not enough. And she keeps trying to get me to sit down and talk with her. Which is harassment and my boss isn't doing shit about it.

There were a few red flags, but hindsight makes them clearer. One time, another couple, VH and I were at their house for dinner. Their son was all over my the wife in the other couple (he was like 7 at the time) - trying to kiss her and hug her excessively. What did he say about his son? Not "hands to yourself" or something, but he said "look at my little ladies man." It was so gross. There was another time when his daughter hit a boy and he said "ha ha your kid got his ass kicked by a girl." We just chalked all of this up to insecurity, but now we realized there was something far more sinister about his attitude.

Anyway, sorry for the long rant. This was my very long winded way in saying that I agree with Flex - while I loathe the prison system, I'm willing to make an exception in the case of people like Gary Glitter and our former friend.
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Feb 2023, 11:30am
Gary Glitter released from prison after serving half his sentence: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/f ... ce-reports

I’m far from a lock-em-up-and-throw-away-the-key person, but that’s an astonishingly light sentence given the crimes.
The guy has a long pattern/history of sexual predation. Maybe he won't harm another child, but that seems like a risk not worth taking.
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

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JennyB wrote:
06 Feb 2023, 11:23am
So, we are dealing with a similar situation with a (now former) friend. This is someone who was at my wedding and at VH, Jr.'s bar mitzvah. He had two 13-year-old daughters and a 10-year-old son and has been married to his wife for 15 years.

I get a text from him a couple of months ago asking if I had time to talk. I told him that I was getting ready to leave for a conference in Chicago, but was everything OK? He said no. So I immediately thought he was going to say someone was sick or that he was getting a divorce or something.

I call him back and he tells me he has gotten himself into a bit of trouble. He has an internet porn addiction and it "resulted" in him trading pictures with someone underage. He asked if I could write a letter on his behalf for the judge, because he will be going to prison for at least five years. I said I could not do that - I worked in sexual abuse prevention for 11 years and as a social worker, I am a mandated reporter. At this time I kind of felt bad for him because he made it sound like the person in the picture was 17 and he was hoodwinked (which is bad enough). But, still.

Turns out, she was 11. And he actively solicited pictures of her. And he is still trying to claim this is due to an addiction. Which is absolute bullshit. Then I read the victim impact statement and he not only posed as another 11 year old girl, he used videos of other 11 year old victims to pose as another 11 year old girl. I won't get into the details of the things he made his victim do, but it was one of the most disturbing things I have ever read.

To complicate things even further, his mom is on the board of my agency. We had a board retreat a couple of months ago and she stood up in front of the group to tell this sob story about how her son has an addiction and it's not his fault and what kind of parents let their children on these websites anyway? I was livid. LIVID. I get that you are in total denial, but this was so inappropriate. She's resigning from the board, but that's not enough. And she keeps trying to get me to sit down and talk with her. Which is harassment and my boss isn't doing shit about it.

There were a few red flags, but hindsight makes them clearer. One time, another couple, VH and I were at their house for dinner. Their son was all over my the wife in the other couple (he was like 7 at the time) - trying to kiss her and hug her excessively. What did he say about his son? Not "hands to yourself" or something, but he said "look at my little ladies man." It was so gross. There was another time when his daughter hit a boy and he said "ha ha your kid got his ass kicked by a girl." We just chalked all of this up to insecurity, but now we realized there was something far more sinister about his attitude.

Anyway, sorry for the long rant. This was my very long winded way in saying that I agree with Flex - while I loathe the prison system, I'm willing to make an exception in the case of people like Gary Glitter and our former friend.
Ugh, so stomach-turning. Even if we can say that it's a severe illness, where the wires are not connected properly and it eliminates conscience and self-control and all that, such a person cannot be in open society. It's not a hard call. Active threats, especially to the most vulnerable, cannot be part of society. We can show pity if we want, but the decision is obvious.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by JennyB »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
06 Feb 2023, 1:19pm
JennyB wrote:
06 Feb 2023, 11:23am
So, we are dealing with a similar situation with a (now former) friend. This is someone who was at my wedding and at VH, Jr.'s bar mitzvah. He had two 13-year-old daughters and a 10-year-old son and has been married to his wife for 15 years.

I get a text from him a couple of months ago asking if I had time to talk. I told him that I was getting ready to leave for a conference in Chicago, but was everything OK? He said no. So I immediately thought he was going to say someone was sick or that he was getting a divorce or something.

I call him back and he tells me he has gotten himself into a bit of trouble. He has an internet porn addiction and it "resulted" in him trading pictures with someone underage. He asked if I could write a letter on his behalf for the judge, because he will be going to prison for at least five years. I said I could not do that - I worked in sexual abuse prevention for 11 years and as a social worker, I am a mandated reporter. At this time I kind of felt bad for him because he made it sound like the person in the picture was 17 and he was hoodwinked (which is bad enough). But, still.

Turns out, she was 11. And he actively solicited pictures of her. And he is still trying to claim this is due to an addiction. Which is absolute bullshit. Then I read the victim impact statement and he not only posed as another 11 year old girl, he used videos of other 11 year old victims to pose as another 11 year old girl. I won't get into the details of the things he made his victim do, but it was one of the most disturbing things I have ever read.

To complicate things even further, his mom is on the board of my agency. We had a board retreat a couple of months ago and she stood up in front of the group to tell this sob story about how her son has an addiction and it's not his fault and what kind of parents let their children on these websites anyway? I was livid. LIVID. I get that you are in total denial, but this was so inappropriate. She's resigning from the board, but that's not enough. And she keeps trying to get me to sit down and talk with her. Which is harassment and my boss isn't doing shit about it.

There were a few red flags, but hindsight makes them clearer. One time, another couple, VH and I were at their house for dinner. Their son was all over my the wife in the other couple (he was like 7 at the time) - trying to kiss her and hug her excessively. What did he say about his son? Not "hands to yourself" or something, but he said "look at my little ladies man." It was so gross. There was another time when his daughter hit a boy and he said "ha ha your kid got his ass kicked by a girl." We just chalked all of this up to insecurity, but now we realized there was something far more sinister about his attitude.

Anyway, sorry for the long rant. This was my very long winded way in saying that I agree with Flex - while I loathe the prison system, I'm willing to make an exception in the case of people like Gary Glitter and our former friend.
Ugh, so stomach-turning. Even if we can say that it's a severe illness, where the wires are not connected properly and it eliminates conscience and self-control and all that, such a person cannot be in open society. It's not a hard call. Active threats, especially to the most vulnerable, cannot be part of society. We can show pity if we want, but the decision is obvious.
I think I would be able to handle this a little better if he showed any glimpse of remorse, but he and his family insist on making him out to be a victim of an addiction. Porn addicts don't one day wake up and say, "you know what I'm gonna do today? Seek out kiddie porn." That's not how this works.
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

JennyB wrote:
06 Feb 2023, 1:21pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
06 Feb 2023, 1:19pm
JennyB wrote:
06 Feb 2023, 11:23am
So, we are dealing with a similar situation with a (now former) friend. This is someone who was at my wedding and at VH, Jr.'s bar mitzvah. He had two 13-year-old daughters and a 10-year-old son and has been married to his wife for 15 years.

I get a text from him a couple of months ago asking if I had time to talk. I told him that I was getting ready to leave for a conference in Chicago, but was everything OK? He said no. So I immediately thought he was going to say someone was sick or that he was getting a divorce or something.

I call him back and he tells me he has gotten himself into a bit of trouble. He has an internet porn addiction and it "resulted" in him trading pictures with someone underage. He asked if I could write a letter on his behalf for the judge, because he will be going to prison for at least five years. I said I could not do that - I worked in sexual abuse prevention for 11 years and as a social worker, I am a mandated reporter. At this time I kind of felt bad for him because he made it sound like the person in the picture was 17 and he was hoodwinked (which is bad enough). But, still.

Turns out, she was 11. And he actively solicited pictures of her. And he is still trying to claim this is due to an addiction. Which is absolute bullshit. Then I read the victim impact statement and he not only posed as another 11 year old girl, he used videos of other 11 year old victims to pose as another 11 year old girl. I won't get into the details of the things he made his victim do, but it was one of the most disturbing things I have ever read.

To complicate things even further, his mom is on the board of my agency. We had a board retreat a couple of months ago and she stood up in front of the group to tell this sob story about how her son has an addiction and it's not his fault and what kind of parents let their children on these websites anyway? I was livid. LIVID. I get that you are in total denial, but this was so inappropriate. She's resigning from the board, but that's not enough. And she keeps trying to get me to sit down and talk with her. Which is harassment and my boss isn't doing shit about it.

There were a few red flags, but hindsight makes them clearer. One time, another couple, VH and I were at their house for dinner. Their son was all over my the wife in the other couple (he was like 7 at the time) - trying to kiss her and hug her excessively. What did he say about his son? Not "hands to yourself" or something, but he said "look at my little ladies man." It was so gross. There was another time when his daughter hit a boy and he said "ha ha your kid got his ass kicked by a girl." We just chalked all of this up to insecurity, but now we realized there was something far more sinister about his attitude.

Anyway, sorry for the long rant. This was my very long winded way in saying that I agree with Flex - while I loathe the prison system, I'm willing to make an exception in the case of people like Gary Glitter and our former friend.
Ugh, so stomach-turning. Even if we can say that it's a severe illness, where the wires are not connected properly and it eliminates conscience and self-control and all that, such a person cannot be in open society. It's not a hard call. Active threats, especially to the most vulnerable, cannot be part of society. We can show pity if we want, but the decision is obvious.
I think I would be able to handle this a little better if he showed any glimpse of remorse, but he and his family insist on making him out to be a victim of an addiction. Porn addicts don't one day wake up and say, "you know what I'm gonna do today? Seek out kiddie porn." That's not how this works.
And that's it. Even understanding that that's how these people are wired—like, it's so damned difficult for them to ever experience remorse—but that does not excuse their family. I totally get the confusion and contradiction of purpose and reconciling the rationalization you've had to do, but in the end you have to accept that making excuses to keep them free makes you an enabler of predatory behaviour. You'd have them continue abusing others just to save your own identity and status. And predators absolutely depend on people failing that basic test, they're adept at helping people fail it.
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by Flex »

Jesus, sorry Mrs. B. Horrible thing to have to deal with. I'm sorry for the people this person victimized first and foremost, what you indicate sounds like the sort of thing you hope never happens to someone else, to say the least.

And, weirdly, I think you're ultimately still being a better advocate for this former friend than his own family - denying what he is and what kind of harm he's caused and could cause again ultimately does him no favors (let alone future victims and society generally). You're certainly more the expert, but from what I understand people who are pedophiles who successfully live in society and don't hurt people have extremely strong support networks that are very clear that they have an urge that needs to be suppressed. None of the "oh I'm the real victim" shit. I can't even imagine having to reconcile how to deal with a family member who turned out to be a pedophile or something, so I have empathy there, but ultimately if they want to their son to live like... any kind of life... they're not helping him at all. Seems like a recipe for both more abuse and then more imprisonment (hopefully, I guess, anyways).

Again, ultimately I think these people would probably be able to live less unhappy lives in controlled environments where they can't pose a danger to others, but I understand that our systems are very much not set up to meaningfully accomplish any of that in a humane or rational way so "take your five years and get serious help so you can't harm anyone else" is probably the best one can advocate for in real life.
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by matedog »

JennyB wrote:
06 Feb 2023, 11:23am

So, we are dealing with a similar situation with a (now former) friend. This is someone who was at my wedding and at VH, Jr.'s bar mitzvah. He had two 13-year-old daughters and a 10-year-old son and has been married to his wife for 15 years.

I get a text from him a couple of months ago asking if I had time to talk. I told him that I was getting ready to leave for a conference in Chicago, but was everything OK? He said no. So I immediately thought he was going to say someone was sick or that he was getting a divorce or something.

I call him back and he tells me he has gotten himself into a bit of trouble. He has an internet porn addiction and it "resulted" in him trading pictures with someone underage. He asked if I could write a letter on his behalf for the judge, because he will be going to prison for at least five years. I said I could not do that - I worked in sexual abuse prevention for 11 years and as a social worker, I am a mandated reporter. At this time I kind of felt bad for him because he made it sound like the person in the picture was 17 and he was hoodwinked (which is bad enough). But, still.

Turns out, she was 11. And he actively solicited pictures of her. And he is still trying to claim this is due to an addiction. Which is absolute bullshit. Then I read the victim impact statement and he not only posed as another 11 year old girl, he used videos of other 11 year old victims to pose as another 11 year old girl. I won't get into the details of the things he made his victim do, but it was one of the most disturbing things I have ever read.

To complicate things even further, his mom is on the board of my agency. We had a board retreat a couple of months ago and she stood up in front of the group to tell this sob story about how her son has an addiction and it's not his fault and what kind of parents let their children on these websites anyway? I was livid. LIVID. I get that you are in total denial, but this was so inappropriate. She's resigning from the board, but that's not enough. And she keeps trying to get me to sit down and talk with her. Which is harassment and my boss isn't doing shit about it.

There were a few red flags, but hindsight makes them clearer. One time, another couple, VH and I were at their house for dinner. Their son was all over my the wife in the other couple (he was like 7 at the time) - trying to kiss her and hug her excessively. What did he say about his son? Not "hands to yourself" or something, but he said "look at my little ladies man." It was so gross. There was another time when his daughter hit a boy and he said "ha ha your kid got his ass kicked by a girl." We just chalked all of this up to insecurity, but now we realized there was something far more sinister about his attitude.

Anyway, sorry for the long rant. This was my very long winded way in saying that I agree with Flex - while I loathe the prison system, I'm willing to make an exception in the case of people like Gary Glitter and our former friend.
Eesh, the circling of the wagons is pretty awful on that. If a family member did something that reprehensible, I'd like to think I'd turn my back on them immediately. I'm definitely not loyal to a fault. And that sounds like an awful thing to go through on your end, but it sounds like you are completely doing the right thing.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by WestwayKid »

Be warned that this clip features a simulated hanging, but has anyone else ever watched The Execution of Gary Glitter? I think it was a BBC production. I've only ever been able to find it on YouTube.

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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by JennyB »

matedog wrote:
06 Feb 2023, 5:13pm
JennyB wrote:
06 Feb 2023, 11:23am

So, we are dealing with a similar situation with a (now former) friend. This is someone who was at my wedding and at VH, Jr.'s bar mitzvah. He had two 13-year-old daughters and a 10-year-old son and has been married to his wife for 15 years.

I get a text from him a couple of months ago asking if I had time to talk. I told him that I was getting ready to leave for a conference in Chicago, but was everything OK? He said no. So I immediately thought he was going to say someone was sick or that he was getting a divorce or something.

I call him back and he tells me he has gotten himself into a bit of trouble. He has an internet porn addiction and it "resulted" in him trading pictures with someone underage. He asked if I could write a letter on his behalf for the judge, because he will be going to prison for at least five years. I said I could not do that - I worked in sexual abuse prevention for 11 years and as a social worker, I am a mandated reporter. At this time I kind of felt bad for him because he made it sound like the person in the picture was 17 and he was hoodwinked (which is bad enough). But, still.

Turns out, she was 11. And he actively solicited pictures of her. And he is still trying to claim this is due to an addiction. Which is absolute bullshit. Then I read the victim impact statement and he not only posed as another 11 year old girl, he used videos of other 11 year old victims to pose as another 11 year old girl. I won't get into the details of the things he made his victim do, but it was one of the most disturbing things I have ever read.

To complicate things even further, his mom is on the board of my agency. We had a board retreat a couple of months ago and she stood up in front of the group to tell this sob story about how her son has an addiction and it's not his fault and what kind of parents let their children on these websites anyway? I was livid. LIVID. I get that you are in total denial, but this was so inappropriate. She's resigning from the board, but that's not enough. And she keeps trying to get me to sit down and talk with her. Which is harassment and my boss isn't doing shit about it.

There were a few red flags, but hindsight makes them clearer. One time, another couple, VH and I were at their house for dinner. Their son was all over my the wife in the other couple (he was like 7 at the time) - trying to kiss her and hug her excessively. What did he say about his son? Not "hands to yourself" or something, but he said "look at my little ladies man." It was so gross. There was another time when his daughter hit a boy and he said "ha ha your kid got his ass kicked by a girl." We just chalked all of this up to insecurity, but now we realized there was something far more sinister about his attitude.

Anyway, sorry for the long rant. This was my very long winded way in saying that I agree with Flex - while I loathe the prison system, I'm willing to make an exception in the case of people like Gary Glitter and our former friend.
Eesh, the circling of the wagons is pretty awful on that. If a family member did something that reprehensible, I'd like to think I'd turn my back on them immediately. I'm definitely not loyal to a fault. And that sounds like an awful thing to go through on your end, but it sounds like you are completely doing the right thing.
Thank you. It's been awful. I spoke to VH, Jr. about it when it first came out and he swore he was never alone with him, thankfully. I am just still shocked and disgusted. He ruined the life of that girl, who probably just got finished playing with barbie dolls, and destroyed her whole family's lives as well. It's so damn sad.
Got a Rake? Sure!

IMCT: Inane Middle-Class Twats - Dr. M

" *sigh* it's right when they throw the penis pump out the window." -Hoy

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