ROUND 3 - Global A Go-Go, LP 1

[Silent Majority]

I'm a lot more concerned about why Joe doesn't have any mushy peas in his neighborhood. When I was in England, it seemed you could get them just about anywhere.

No, they haven't really got them round there.

[Dr. Medulla]

Why are we beholden to only one consistent criteria or perspective of criticism? If the point of the exercise were to critique the critic, yeah, you could definitely nail me for inconsistency. But for deciding whether a song works or not relative to others in a group, we should be able to pick and choose our standards as we wish. I'm reasonably sure that we've all done that throughout all these various votes, emphasizing lyrics at one point, music at another, remote perspective, deeply personal perspective, whether something has aged poorly or well, etc. I remember you voting against "Clampdown" because you said Beto loves it. I laughed at the time—it's a good line—but if I were to critique you on your choice, it'd be that that's dubious criteria that you didn't apply to other songs. In the same way, I interpret Hoy's take as tongue-in-cheek—again, I laughed at his line. He's using snark to critique a song that doesn't resonate with him.

I'm not trying to nail you for inconsistency, I was just trying to get at that you obviously let context inform how you listen to music on other occassions, so why wouldn't you do so here?

It's legit, I suppose, to consider a song without any extra-textual context (although I think I made the case above that I disagree on the merits under those conditions as well), but why would doing that be preferable when you have that extra information in your head already? We weigh different criteria when we evaluate songs, but I like to think I've never just wholesale chucked out context info to make my case.

Because we're fundamentally irrational creatures who use the trappings of reason to cover that up. It's not so much about chucking out context, but what we want emphasize from context to context, example to example. We pick and choose what we privilege.

And, to be clear, it's not my position that Bhindi is superficial undergrad nonsense; I'm saying that Hoy's position is entirely defensible in interpreting it as too lyrically earnest and obvious in its open-mindedness. I'm rejecting the notion that there's some kind of hierarchy of criteria and that Hoy is using one for which he should be scorned. Again, I have no doubt that if we examine every one of our votes along the way, there are some goofy choices along the way. I'm basically rejecting the MarkyJacobs "Have You All Gone Mad For Voting Against [pick any BAD song]?" stance.

[Kory]

I'm a lot more concerned about why Joe doesn't have any mushy peas in his neighborhood. When I was in England, it seemed you could get them just about anywhere.

No, they haven't really got them round there.

But we do got...

[Flex]

Because we're fundamentally irrational creatures who use the trappings of reason to cover that up. It's not so much about chucking out context, but what we want emphasize from context to context, example to example. We pick and choose what we privilege.

And, to be clear, it's not my position that Bhindi is superficial undergrad nonsense; I'm saying that Hoy's position is entirely defensible in interpreting it as too lyrically earnest and obvious in its open-mindedness. I'm rejecting the notion that there's some kind of hierarchy of criteria and that Hoy is using one for which he should be scorned. Again, I have no doubt that if we examine every one of our votes along the way, there are some goofy choices along the way. I'm basically rejecting the MarkyJacobs "Have You All Gone Mad For Voting Against [pick any BAD song]?" stance.

Okay, I don't really dispute any of that (and I'm not trying to come off like a humorless MarkyJacobs). I'm not writing Hoy out of my will for having a hot take about a Meskies song or anything. I'm just making jawin' about the song (which, given the way he provocatively threw that out there, I'm presuming he was hoping for some reaction).

[Dr. Medulla]

Because we're fundamentally irrational creatures who use the trappings of reason to cover that up. It's not so much about chucking out context, but what we want emphasize from context to context, example to example. We pick and choose what we privilege.

And, to be clear, it's not my position that Bhindi is superficial undergrad nonsense; I'm saying that Hoy's position is entirely defensible in interpreting it as too lyrically earnest and obvious in its open-mindedness. I'm rejecting the notion that there's some kind of hierarchy of criteria and that Hoy is using one for which he should be scorned. Again, I have no doubt that if we examine every one of our votes along the way, there are some goofy choices along the way. I'm basically rejecting the MarkyJacobs "Have You All Gone Mad For Voting Against [pick any BAD song]?" stance.

Okay, I don't really dispute any of that (and I'm not trying to come off like a humorless MarkyJacobs). I'm not writing Hoy out of my will for having a hot take about a Meskies song or anything. I'm just making jawin' about the song (which, given the way he provocatively threw that out there, I'm presuming he was hoping for some reaction).

Right—it was a great line (really, it's damned funny when read in an exasperated voice) to get a reaction and should be appreciated in that spirit. And it worked to get us arguing about it, so it succeeds that way, too.

[Heston]

The thing about Bhindi Bhagee is that it is very musically interesting. The groove is brilliant and all the instrumental stuff interlocks perfectly, it rises and falls perfectly with Joe's idiosyncratic vocal. That is my main gripe with the Meskies, some of their output feels like aimless jamming to me, but BB is where they nailed it.

[Marky Dread]

I'm a lot more concerned about why Joe doesn't have any mushy peas in his neighborhood. When I was in England, it seemed you could get them just about anywhere.

No, they haven't really got them round there.

But we do got...

Cue penny whistle...

[101Walterton]

It bothers me because he sounds like some well to do suburban 22 year old who just graduated from some expensive suburban liberal arts college and just moved to like New York City and is like "OMG, I can get falafel at 3am. Isn't The City the best?!"

I just think you completely missed the point of the song.

[Wolter]

It bothers me because he sounds like some well to do suburban 22 year old who just graduated from some expensive suburban liberal arts college and just moved to like New York City and is like "OMG, I can get falafel at 3am. Isn't The City the best?!"

I just think you completely missed the point of the song.

Meskies really are wonderful at 101Wolterton

[Flex]

Meskies really are wonderful at 101Wolterton

101Flolter, really.

[101Walterton]

One of most significant part of the song is the fact that he is talking to someone who ‘has just got in from New Zealand’. This gives the song the context. He isn’t talking to a tourist or an alien. The fact he is from NZ is significant and not just from a geography point of of view.

[Heston]

One of most significant part of the song is the fact that he is talking to someone who ‘has just got in from New Zealand’. This gives the song the context. He isn’t talking to a tourist or an alien. The fact he is from NZ is significant and not just from a geography point of of view.

Should he not have been looking for sheep?

[Dr. Medulla]

One of most significant part of the song is the fact that he is talking to someone who ‘has just got in from New Zealand’. This gives the song the context. He isn’t talking to a tourist or an alien. The fact he is from NZ is significant and not just from a geography point of of view.

Should he not have been looking for sheep?

Or 2-Tone records?

[Olaf]

One of most significant part of the song is the fact that he is talking to someone who ‘has just got in from New Zealand’. This gives the song the context. He isn’t talking to a tourist or an alien. The fact he is from NZ is significant and not just from a geography point of of view.

Should he not have been looking for sheep?

Or 2-Tone records?

Well, can't it be both?

[Low Down Low]

One of most significant part of the song is the fact that he is talking to someone who ‘has just got in from New Zealand’. This gives the song the context. He isn’t talking to a tourist or an alien. The fact he is from NZ is significant and not just from a geography point of of view.

Just my $0.2 for what its worth, but i agree entirely with this. The context for me is that Joe is writing about a place that is undergoing a transformation at that point in time, from worthy but rather dull, monochrome locality to diverse, vibrant and much more interesting habitat. (Actually, i'm kind of assuming this as I cant claim to have known that area intimately, but i did know similar ones very close by and that's what was occurring). I think the song feeds off the energy and vibrancy of what Joe, as an observer, was experiencing and it all feels very powerful and authentic to me at least.

In terms of context, i cant say for sure, but my bet would be that if joe was still around and writing about that same neighbourhood now, the subject of the song would be gentrification.